JCM 800 4104 vs 2204 (choices)

[psychic_fuzz]

Would you rather be responsible and buy a JCM 800 4104 horizontal for $1400 or buy a 2204 vertical for $2500?

asking for a friend

 

[lpcustom]

Given those choices… I’d hold out for better options.

 

[guitarbilly74]

It's the exact same amp. So you can buy the 4104 and get a headshell for it later, if you want to. The only thing is the labeling will be upside down but that's not a big deal.

The differences between horizontal and vertical are minimal on the 50w.

 

[jcm800gridlock]

I gigged a 4104 vertical input with G12-65’s for years. A great sounding amp and I barely ever used pedals.

I would hold out for a vertical input JMP or early JCM800 for around $2k. They are out there.

 

[psychic_fuzz]

It's the exact same amp. So you can buy the 4104 and get a headshell for it later, if you want to. The only thing is the labeling will be upside down but that's not a big deal.

The differences between horizontal and vertical are minimal on the 50w.

This is definitely where I'm leaning, for the obvious financial reasons lol. A head cab is about $300 so that still keeps me under 2k which I like, but it'll never look exactly like a 2204. Not a deal breaker.

 

[Rozman62]

As mentioned the same circuit so put $1100 back in your pocket to help pay for the back injury your 4104 will cause. haha.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Would you rather be responsible and buy a JCM 800 4104 horizontal for $1400 or buy a 2204 vertical for $2500?

asking for a friend

Neither, I'd get a brand new 2203x. If you want 50w, pull 2 tubes and rebias. All new components, so good to go for many years, and you know it hasn't been dicked with inside. Also has an FX loop if you need it, if not, it's "True Bypass".

 

[V-man]

Unless you plan on gigging the head cab idea is silly, IMO. You have this behemoth 212 cab taking up the same X and Z dimensions in your room as a half/full stack.

The only reason to consider this purchase is because buyer wants a *MARSHALL* not a “2204 circuit.”

Option A: $300 for the headshell cab, + $X00 for somebody like @Matthews Guitars to sell you the accurate 2204 front (and rear) panel(s) the Marshall headshell logo, the humble tools/adhesive to DIY the panel swap (or to get a pro to do it to preserve the originals), then store all that crap time capsule style so you have the complete original 4104 with parts to sell as a combo, head or package. This is a lot of time, money and real estate compared to leaving it stock.

Option B: “Stratosphere” the bitch. This is where you are on the hook for the same $ and aggravation as option A, but you part out the 4104 cab/speakers locally to recoup your conversion costs. Now you (sort of) have a 2204 at a rather nominal sum for the labor invested. The caveat here is you now have (at best) a “chassis drilled/molested” 2204 in terms of resale since you have a good and genuine Marshall that is not in original condition. Fine if you insist on a 2204 and are willing to go through all that shit and selling to get in on a (mostly) 2204 cheap, realizing your resale and time costs = what $ you “saved” on the deal.

Option C: Wangs. Handwired 2204 clone for less than the 4104 with complete new components. You have the sound and portability hassle free. You only lose out on the fact it’s a MiC Wangs over a MiUK Marshall.

Option D: Buy it and leave the SOB alone. Enjoy a perfect (non portable) combo in your home/studio/rehearsal space. You lose out on portability, but fuck it. $300 can get you a usable road case to bang that sack of anvils around with your band if you really need to gig.

Option E: wait for the 2203/4 that is a better deal that that 2204 proposed in the OP.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

I don't like combos very much. Give me a separate head and my choice of cabinets, every time.

 

[psychic_fuzz]

Just posted a new question about the 4104 I was set to buy today. Would really appreciate any feedback!

'88 JCM 4104 Chassis - How Original?

Was planning on going to pick this amp today. Seller finally got around to sending pics. Unfortunately it appears all the carbon comps have been replaced and possibly the film caps as well. Transformers are original Drakes dated '88 Any insight as to originality is greatly appreciated!

www.marshallforum.com

 

[psychic_fuzz]

Unless you plan on gigging the head cab idea is silly, IMO. You have this behemoth 212 cab taking up the same X and Z dimensions in your room as a half/full stack.

The only reason to consider this purchase is because buyer wants a *MARSHALL* not a “2204 circuit.”

Option A: $300 for the headshell cab, + $X00 for somebody like @Matthews Guitars to sell you the accurate 2204 front (and rear) panel(s) the Marshall headshell logo, the humble tools/adhesive to DIY the panel swap (or to get a pro to do it to preserve the originals), then store all that crap time capsule style so you have the complete original 4104 with parts to sell as a combo, head or package. This is a lot of time, money and real estate compared to leaving it stock.

Option B: “Stratosphere” the bitch. This is where you are on the hook for the same $ and aggravation as option A, but you part out the 4104 cab/speakers locally to recoup your conversion costs. Now you (sort of) have a 2204 at a rather nominal sum for the labor invested. The caveat here is you now have (at best) a “chassis drilled/molested” 2204 in terms of resale since you have a good and genuine Marshall that is not in original condition. Fine if you insist on a 2204 and are willing to go through all that shit and selling to get in on a (mostly) 2204 cheap, realizing your resale and time costs = what $ you “saved” on the deal.

Option C: Wangs. Handwired 2204 clone for less than the 4104 with complete new components. You have the sound and portability hassle free. You only lose out on the fact it’s a MiC Wangs over a MiUK Marshall.

Option D: Buy it and leave the SOB alone. Enjoy a perfect (non portable) combo in your home/studio/rehearsal space. You lose out on portability, but fuck it. $300 can get you a usable road case to bang that sack of anvils around with your band if you really need to gig.

Option E: wait for the 2203/4 that is a better deal that that 2204 proposed in the OP.

So I was set up to go pick up the 4104 today. We on agreed on 1300 so I said screw let’s do it. But it appears the resistors have all been swapped. Which is fine and probably an upgrade but I’d prefer it as orig as possible. I linked the topic below with a pic.

Thanks for the breakdown of options though. I was going to turn it into a head most likely and just have a weird original 2204 to play on.

 

[V-man]

So I was set up to go pick up the 4104 today. We on agreed on 1300 so I said screw let’s do it. But it appears the resistors have all been swapped. Which is fine and probably an upgrade but I’d prefer it as orig as possible. I linked the topic below with a pic.

Thanks for the breakdown of options though. I was going to turn it into a head most likely and just have a weird original 2204 to play on.

HNAD. Very solid deal. Not the $1,300 JMP half stack I got in the early ‘10s but not likely to do much better absent the economy taking more of a shit.

 

[psychic_fuzz]

I'll just post here. Any thoughts on originality? Every pic I've seen has carbon comp so assuming they have all been replaced.

 

[V-man]

Here is an ‘88 2204 gut shot I found.


No idea of its pedigree, but I have seen some 87-89 2550s with different cement blocks

 

[psychic_fuzz]

I found one as well from '88. They must've gone to Carbon Film resistors in later models. Don't mean o get into a "mojo" discussion but might contribute to some folks saying later models are a little brighter. Interesting...

 

[guitarbilly74]

This is definitely where I'm leaning, for the obvious financial reasons lol. A head cab is about $300 so that still keeps me under 2k which I like, but it'll never look exactly like a 2204. Not a deal breaker.

If you ever want it to look like a 2204 @Matthews Guitars make repro panels and he will even engrave your serial number. Look up samples of his work here, really good stuff. I never got one myself because I haven't needed one, but he's helped several forum members here.

 

[guitarbilly74]

I'll just post here. Any thoughts on originality? Every pic I've seen has carbon comp so assuming they have all been replaced.

View attachment 153929

I am not knowledgeable enough about original components but the circuit itself looks stock to me and it's very clean so if anyone replaced resistors in it it was well done. How does it sound?

 

[psychic_fuzz]

I am not knowledgeable enough about original components but the circuit itself looks stock to me and it's very clean so if anyone replaced resistors in it it was well done. How does it sound?

Yeah That pic I posted of another 88 seems to confirm it’s stock.

It’s an hour drive unfortunately so haven’t had a chance to play it yet. I’ve heard it on live recordings of sellers band and sounds great.

 

[scozz]

Unless you plan on gigging the head cab idea is silly, IMO. You have this behemoth 212 cab taking up the same X and Z dimensions in your room as a half/full stack.

The only reason to consider this purchase is because buyer wants a *MARSHALL* not a “2204 circuit.”

Option A: $300 for the headshell cab, + $X00 for somebody like @Matthews Guitars to sell you the accurate 2204 front (and rear) panel(s) the Marshall headshell logo, the humble tools/adhesive to DIY the panel swap (or to get a pro to do it to preserve the originals), then store all that crap time capsule style so you have the complete original 4104 with parts to sell as a combo, head or package. This is a lot of time, money and real estate compared to leaving it stock.

Option B: “Stratosphere” the bitch. This is where you are on the hook for the same $ and aggravation as option A, but you part out the 4104 cab/speakers locally to recoup your conversion costs. Now you (sort of) have a 2204 at a rather nominal sum for the labor invested. The caveat here is you now have (at best) a “chassis drilled/molested” 2204 in terms of resale since you have a good and genuine Marshall that is not in original condition. Fine if you insist on a 2204 and are willing to go through all that shit and selling to get in on a (mostly) 2204 cheap, realizing your resale and time costs = what $ you “saved” on the deal.

Option C: Wangs. Handwired 2204 clone for less than the 4104 with complete new components. You have the sound and portability hassle free. You only lose out on the fact it’s a MiC Wangs over a MiUK Marshall.

Option D: Buy it and leave the SOB alone. Enjoy a perfect (non portable) combo in your home/studio/rehearsal space. You lose out on portability, but fuck it. $300 can get you a usable road case to bang that sack of anvils around with your band if you really need to gig.

Option E: wait for the 2203/4 that is a better deal that that 2204 proposed in the OP.

That 2204 Wang sounds great, solid build too from what I’ve heard.

 

[guitarbilly74]

That 2204 Wang sounds great, solid build too from what I’ve heard.

Yeah a friend of mine has one and he likes it a lot. He's not local to me so I never played it myself but he knows Marshalls well so I trust him if he says it's a good amp.

Ceriatone is also a great option. I've owned several of them and they were all great.