JVM 410H with 2x12 Celestion A-type & V-type

[Shagura]

Hi all,

I was planning on putting the A and V-type inside a 2x12" speaker cab. the A -type is 50 watts and the V-type 70, which makes 120watts.

However, now I've been reading that that might not be enough. Since the amp might spike beyond what it's rated at. I already bought the A-type speaker. Now I'm having doubts about this choice of setup.

I like playing a variety of genres. Lately rock and blues but I've also played in a metal band with this amp (using a 4x12) but I hated having to carry that beast around. Never really cranked the amp above 4/5, that was plenty loud.

Am I making a mistake with putting in these speakers?

 

[RLW59]

The power gets split equally between the speakers. So a cab with a 50 watt speaker together with a 70 watt speaker can only handle 100 watts -- if you pump more than 100 watts into the cab the 50 watt speaker will get more than 50 watts.

A cab with a 200 watt EVM plus a 15 watt Alnico Blue can only handle 30 watts.
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The louder you turn up the amp, the more power the amp puts out. So you can use an under-rated cab if you don't turn the amp too far up.

But "too far" is tricky to determine. Loudness, wattage, and knob settings don't have linear relationships. "4/5" on the amp is often close to the rated output.
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Speaker power handling ratings are actually rough approximations of real-world power handling. Clean, smooth/mellow playing is easier on a speaker than fuzzed-out aggressive playing.
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A-type plus V-type with a 100 watt tube amp that's not turned all the way up isn't a totally reckless risk. Would probably be fine.

But it's not bullet-proof.

 

[Shagura]

Well that's definitely making me reconsider my choice.
So for a 100watt head I'd optimally need 2 100 watt speakers for it to handle max power of the amp? I've read that one should get double the wattage of the amp.

 

[RLW59]

Well, Marshall's JVM410C 100 watt 212 combo uses a 70 watt and an 80 watt speaker. Their 50 watt 112 combos typically have speakers in the 65~80 watt range.

It's really uncommon for any 100 watt 212 combo to come from the manufacturer with 200 watts worth of speakers.

Celestion is generally pretty conservative with their power ratings. When they say "50 watts" they mean it can handle most 50 watt tube amps under most conditions. They know tube amps can produce peaks above rated power.

Some speaker companies exaggerate their power ratings, so their "50 watt' speakers may not handle a maxxed-out 50 watt tube amp. That gave birth to the super-safe rule of thumb to have double the power handling.

I wouldn't worry at all about using 2 Celestion 70 watt speakers. I wouldn't really worry too much about using an A type plus a V type if I didn't plan to run a fuzz and turn every knob on the amp to "10".

Like I said in the previous post, A+V isn't a reckless risk with a high probability of blowing the speakers when you run the amp at less than maximum output. More like the ragged edge of just barely enough to handle it if you ever need to crank the amp all the way.

 

[Shagura]

Thanks for the info! I'm still feeling kind of apprehensive about it tbh, but I think I'll bite the bullet and get the V-type. Considering that I never have had the amp at above 6 I think I'll be on the safe side.
And if I might want to crank the amp someday, I'll replace the A-type with another V-type, or a different higher watttage speaker.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Well, Marshall's JVM410C 100 watt 212 combo uses a 70 watt and an 80 watt speaker. Their 50 watt 112 combos typically have speakers in the 65~80 watt range.

It's really uncommon for any 100 watt 212 combo to come from the manufacturer with 200 watts worth of speakers.

The JVM215C actually has a 150W Celestion G12B-150 speaker as stock.

That's the equivalent of putting 300W of speaker capacity in a 100W combo.

I have still to fathom why the G12B-150 is used in a 50W JVM215C.
The only other source for that speaker is a 1912 cab.
Celestion don't sell them commercially.

 

[Shagura]

I've decided on putting in 2 v-types right away. That way I won't have to worry about having to switch them out later if I want to crank the amp.
Got a good deal on some used 2020 V-types. Really curious how they'll sound compared to my old vintage 30 cab.

Might someday get a more expensive alnico speaker Celestion (like the cream) when budget allows it, to combine with a V-type.

 

[spacerocker]

I've decided on putting in 2 v-types right away. That way I won't have to worry about having to switch them out later if I want to crank the amp.
Got a good deal on some used 2020 V-types. Really curious how they'll sound compared to my old vintage 30 cab.

Might someday get a more expensive alnico speaker Celestion (like the cream) when budget allows it, to combine with a V-type.

I think that is what I would have done...

Having said that, I think you would have been OK with your original speaker choice (rated at 100W total)....hardly anybody gets the chance (or need) to crank a 100W marshall over half-way these days!

I played with a 1968 4x12 Marshall cab for years using a 2203 100W amp, and it was fine, even cranked at out-door gigs! And that cab still has 4 x 25W Celestions....

 

[21fret]

Didn't the 2101 or the 4101 1×12 combo come with a G12H-100.
That's an angry combo aye!