JVM vs DSL for hot rod JCM tones

[Adrian R]

Bias drift was a issue in pre-2005 versions. Anything after that is perfectly fine. I have a 2008 model that still has the factory tubes. Been rock solid for a long time.

And of those pre 2005 models that had bias problems...only a certain number of them failed. I need to make this very clear.. Many people just think all of them fail which is completely ridicules... that has not been my experience! I have owned and worked on 98s, 99s, 2000s, 03's, 06's ALL of which did not exhibit any issues...

 

[Adrian R]

you also swap out trans' & add choke, etc, along w/ other mod's worth mentioning.

my comment above was ½ jest, ½ serious. As an owner of a problem JCM2000 amp, & knowing quite a few others, here on the forum, the BS is real...

They can be good amp's, but, I wouldn't trust leaving it on & going to the store, while it warms up. I trust every other amp in that regard though...

The house might burn down. It should have never been that way, but you can blame Marshall, for their shoddy design & materials, rather than those who experience the issues 1st hand & paid good money for their troublesome amp's.

Taking in the laws of probability...you'd gotta better chance of getting the Covid then having a DSL amp burning your house down! lol

 

[Adrian R]

JVM sounds better than any DSL.

Subjective. Had a 205H for a spell...nice amp..even added a choke... still thought the DSL, especially with a choke added and the O/T replaced, sound FAR more Marshall authentic...like the older amps... The JVM was just too compressed...stiff...something about it sounded alien to me. My DSL sounds allot like my 2204.

 

[jchrisf]

Subjective. Had a 205H for a spell...nice amp..even added a choke... still thought the DSL, especially with a choke added and the O/T replaced, sound FAR more Marshall authentic...like the older amps... The JVM was just too compressed...stiff...something about it sounded alien to me. My DSL sounds allot like my 2204.

Adrain, do you have any experience with the 40 combos? If so, what's your opinion on these.

 

[Adrian R]

Adrain, do you have any experience with the 40 combos? If so, what's your opinion on these.

Sorry dude...zero. Always been a half/full stack guy...I'm old..lol

 

[scozz]

Which one of these amps sounds best for hot rod JCM 800/JMP 80s hard rock tones? I know I'll need at least a 40 for the DSL because of the crunch channel but will any JVM get there?

In my opinion the Jvm is a better choice no matter what kind of music you play.

In all sincerity,......not being a smart ass here,.....but if you’re looking for Jcm800 tones, why don’t you just get a Jcm800?

 

[Dogs of Doom]

And of those pre 2005 models that had bias problems...only a certain number of them failed. I need to make this very clear.. Many people just think all of them fail which is completely ridicules... that has not been my experience! I have owned and worked on 98s, 99s, 2000s, 03's, 06's ALL of which did not exhibit any issues...

mine's a 2006...

 

[jchrisf]

In my opinion the Jvm is a better choice no matter what kind of music you play.

In all sincerity,......not being a smart ass here,.....but if you’re looking for Jcm800 tones, why don’t you just get a Jcm800?

Glad you mentioned it.. though I love all Marshall tones, the ones I use are hot rodded Marshall tones that have been modded.. The DSL and JVM seem to get closer to those tones, especially at home office volumes (I still play loud but not that loud) and are more versatile.

 

[scozz]

Glad you mentioned it.. though I love all Marshall tones, the ones I use are hot rodded Marshall tones that have been modded.. The DSL and JVM seem to get closer to those tones, especially at home office volumes (I still play loud but not that loud) and are more versatile.

Have you ever played an SC20?

 

[jchrisf]

Have you ever played an SC20?

No, but if I ever see one at the store I plan on trying it out

 

[Adrian R]

mine's a 2006...

So did you have any probs with it? I purchased an 06' for a friend of mine...fitted it with a choke...he loves the hell out of it...BUT...I did have to replace the mainboard...but that was because he was running it mismatched for months at high volumes... since then though it's been rock solid for him. He WAS a devout Peavy guy..for years... I'd always give him crap about his old Peavys...VTM, ummm...ultra something...whatever...his tone was always cheap sounding... Once he got the Marshall he was blown away...lol.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

if they don't burn your house down...

 

[Solid State]

Glad you mentioned it.. though I love all Marshall tones, the ones I use are hot rodded Marshall tones that have been modded.. The DSL and JVM seem to get closer to those tones, especially at home office volumes (I still play loud but not that loud) and are more versatile.

It's a good question though. If your goal tone is a JCM800 tone of any flavor, then your base should be a JCM800. I have DSLs and a 5150 and yeah, they cover some of the same territory, but the JCM800 is my main amp because without even trying, it IS that signature voice and projection goal that only the JCM800 can put out.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

So did you have any probs with it? I purchased an 06' for a friend of mine...fitted it with a choke...he loves the hell out of it...BUT...I did have to replace the mainboard...but that was because he was running it mismatched for months at high volumes... since then though it's been rock solid for him. He WAS a devout Peavy guy..for years... I'd always give him crap about his old Peavys...VTM, ummm...ultra something...whatever...his tone was always cheap sounding... Once he got the Marshall he was blown away...lol.

yes, I've had plenty of issues w/ mine..

My board was ok, but had quite a few things that I had to fix. Mine's a TSL btw, but, none the less, they are the same cloth...

I still have a few things that I need to fix on mine. I never use the footswitch, as I play here, at home, sitting on the couch, w/ the knobs within an arm's reach, so I play, then if I want another sound I switch by hand. At some point, the switch shorted out & blew a resistor in the head. I replaced the resistor, but, I never sorted out the switch, that probably caused it, so, I'm not going to hook it up until I am positive that's resolved.

I also need to swap out the bias pots. I know this, because, even though it biases, the slots are stripped out. & are hard to turn. It also seems touchy, that I move it & no change, then I move it a little more & it jumps out of wack. When I repaired R9, I didn't think they were going to bias within range, but, barely got it there (w/o tubes). Once I put the Svetlanas in, it biased up, no problem...

But, it's not something I'd trust playing out, although, I have plenty of other stuff to do that, but, that just goes to show, that, to me, it's not a trustworthy amp. It should be. You shouldn't have to buy new trans's, motherboard & bias kit, to make an amp reliable...

You should be able to buy it, & have little to no worries. Every amp will need some maintenance, sometime, but, you shouldn't be worried if it's going to fail at any time...

 

[Adrian R]

yes, I've had plenty of issues w/ mine..

My board was ok, but had quite a few things that I had to fix. Mine's a TSL btw, but, none the less, they are the same cloth...

I still have a few things that I need to fix on mine. I never use the footswitch, as I play here, at home, sitting on the couch, w/ the knobs within an arm's reach, so I play, then if I want another sound I switch by hand. At some point, the switch shorted out & blew a resistor in the head. I replaced the resistor, but, I never sorted out the switch, that probably caused it, so, I'm not going to hook it up until I am positive that's resolved.

I also need to swap out the bias pots. I know this, because, even though it biases, the slots are stripped out. & are hard to turn. It also seems touchy, that I move it & no change, then I move it a little more & it jumps out of wack. When I repaired R9, I didn't think they were going to bias within range, but, barely got it there (w/o tubes). Once I put the Svetlanas in, it biased up, no problem...

But, it's not something I'd trust playing out, although, I have plenty of other stuff to do that, but, that just goes to show, that, to me, it's not a trustworthy amp. It should be. You shouldn't have to buy new trans's, motherboard & bias kit, to make an amp reliable...

You should be able to buy it, & have little to no worries. Every amp will need some maintenance, sometime, but, you shouldn't be worried if it's going to fail at any time...

All due respect DOD...but you're making a grand assumption here. I could be an ass here..extend the hand, and instruct you to talk to it..lol..but I will not due to the futility of such a unproductive strategy.

The fact is the TSL and it's well documented issues is the proverbial orange with respect to the DSL's more apple nature. Their different amps dude. Just because they share the same 'JCM 2000' nomenclature doesn't mean their the same amps...

That IS a bummer though DOD! I totally understand your frustrations. It appears your amp was made on a Monday! Lol..The problems you've illustrated are utterly alien to me with respect to ANY Marshall amp.

Unfortunately, this is precisely how the negative ' propaganda' propagates...grand assumptions...based on an maybe isolated incident. .mountains made from little mounds.. and how ( gonna quote Reo and Henley) 'tales grow taller on down the line'...' they need dirty laundry'. People in general never think for themselves..and feed on negativity. Human nature...in a way deeply flawed..but..and incidentally

You don't have to swap trannys and add a choke...the DSLs sound good stock with good tubes and a proper bias..umm with YES...that is one problem..underbiased from factory..but it's easily addressed. Get the
amp biased properly and they sound good stock. Oh, okay and the speaker ground issue...that ' can' be a problem..never experienced it yet..but it's an easy fix too.

Dr. Tube and bias fix problem is cool. But it too...or should I say they use scare tactics to sell their kit. It also makes grand assumptions that ALL DSLs will fail. Well eventually everything fails..but not nessecerily in the manner they describe!

I've owned, used, and worked on many DSLs..never a problem..period. That's my experience..with the exception of one amp that failed due to running in a mismatched scenario.

 

[Buzzard]

Adrian I guess your one of the most knowledge around here on the jcm 2000 dsl’s. I’ve got a 2004 dsl 50 . Bought it used and the reverb never worked and have yet to bring it in for a checkup. Should I buy a new reverb aftermarket tank or bring it in and see if it’s a loose wire or something? He’s an hour and change away so I’ve got to be make the trip worthwhile as I’ve got to leave it.

 

[Adrian R]

Adrian I guess your one of the most knowledge around here on the jcm 2000 dsl’s. I’ve got a 2004 dsl 50 . Bought it used and the reverb never worked and have yet to bring it in for a checkup. Should I buy a new reverb aftermarket tank or bring it in and see if it’s a loose wire or something? He’s an hour and change away so I’ve got to be make the trip worthwhile as I’ve got to leave it.

I would first check to ensure the tank is plugged in. Very simple to check. If it is, remove the tank and inspect it. Very simple..two rca plugs and four screws. Check to be sure everything looks 'connected'. If it is..the tank could be bad. Their cheap man. MOD makes a good one for like $20 or $30 ...I think. DSL50s are pretty solid man. Put in some Sino EL-34Bs ...from the Tube Depot...bias around 35-38mV per tube...GE, Raytheon, EH preamp tubes... The DSL 50s reportedly do not suffer from the bias issues the 100watters did. If you can...learn to do this stuff yourself. You'll save tons of money...know the job is done right...and you don't have to be without your amp for a damn month! Replacing that reverb tank is TOTALLY brain dead. Biasing is very simple too... all you need is a multimeter... a small jewelers screwdriver...

 

[jchrisf]

It's a good question though. If your goal tone is a JCM800 tone of any flavor, then your base should be a JCM800. I have DSLs and a 5150 and yeah, they cover some of the same territory, but the JCM800 is my main amp because without even trying, it IS that signature voice and projection goal that only the JCM800 can put out.

I'm thinking if I were to get a JCM 800 I'd probably be better off with a late 80s 2205 instead of the 2204?

 

[Guitar Rod]

DSL50s are pretty solid man. Put in some Sino EL-34Bs ...from the Tube Depot...bias around 35-38mV per tube.

They are solid. Haven't really heard of any issues with them. Speaking of the Sino EL34-Bs, how would you describe them? I have a DSL50 with JJ E34Ls. I can see why people like them for the red channel. Really adds a lot of bass and punch, but for the green channel too much bass. I have to turn it down to 1 or 2. Also too much headroom.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

All due respect DOD...but you're making a grand assumption here. I could be an ass here..extend the hand, and instruct you to talk to it..lol..but I will not due to the futility of such a unproductive strategy.

The fact is the TSL and it's well documented issues is the proverbial orange with respect to the DSL's more apple nature. Their different amps dude. Just because they share the same 'JCM 2000' nomenclature doesn't mean their the same amps...

That IS a bummer though DOD! I totally understand your frustrations. It appears your amp was made on a Monday! Lol..The problems you've illustrated are utterly alien to me with respect to ANY Marshall amp.

Unfortunately, this is precisely how the negative ' propaganda' propagates...grand assumptions...based on an maybe isolated incident. .mountains made from little mounds.. and how ( gonna quote Reo and Henley) 'tales grow taller on down the line'...' they need dirty laundry'. People in general never think for themselves..and feed on negativity. Human nature...in a way deeply flawed..but..and incidentally

You don't have to swap trannys and add a choke...the DSLs sound good stock with good tubes and a proper bias..umm with YES...that is one problem..underbiased from factory..but it's easily addressed. Get the
amp biased properly and they sound good stock. Oh, okay and the speaker ground issue...that ' can' be a problem..never experienced it yet..but it's an easy fix too.

Dr. Tube and bias fix problem is cool. But it too...or should I say they use scare tactics to sell their kit. It also makes grand assumptions that ALL DSLs will fail. Well eventually everything fails..but not nessecerily in the manner they describe!

I've owned, used, and worked on many DSLs..never a problem..period. That's my experience..with the exception of one amp that failed due to running in a mismatched scenario.

the mainboards were the same, in both the DSL & TSL. You yourself stated that you had to change a mainboard out on the "06, that I highlighted in red. My '06, didn't need a mainboard, but, it has it's share of issues & after so many revisions - the same revisions, that I presume that your '06 DSL has had, since they are both '06.

Supposedly, everybody says that '04, is the magic date that everything was all fixed, but not... apparently....

Whenever I brought up the JCM2000 series around Marshall engineers, they always got that embarrassed to talk about it vibe, noting that it wasn't Marshall's best period, but really wouldn't talk about it much.

There's a reason that they revised them & have the non JCM2000 series of DSL. The idea was popular, as it should be. It's engineering was sub-par, admitted by Marshall employees. They redesigned things moved it over to Viet Nam & are now producing something more of a fixed version. I'm sure the new 20 watt is more ideal, since I believe that it's made in the UK...

As I stated, my comment though was ½ jest & ½ serious.

The 16 ohm speaker ground problem is a big problem.