JVM vs DSL - Please *HELP* me choose the "MEATIER Marshall"

[big dooley]

Huh? That's the stupidest post I've seen here in a long time. I use my DSL with no pedals most of the time.

guess he was meaning, if you'd like to have the amount of gain a JVM can spit out, you would need a pedal with a DSL... but as i said already, not everyone wants that amount of gain

 

[TwinACStacks]

Huh? That's the stupidest post I've seen here in a long time. I use my DSL with no pedals most of the time.

+1000 It doesn't need Pedals. Occasionally I will use an echo/delay in place of the reverb.

TWIN

 

[SilverEra]

I'd also like to point out that overdrive/boost pedal's have been used by countless pro's to create tone that many would kill for...

BUT THEY'RE WRONG, COS THEY'RE SOLID STATE AND SUCK TONE NO MATTER WHAT!!!

 

[Magus Tony]

When I say that pedals are solid state therefore suck tone, I am not talking about delays, phasers chorus etc, but just boost pedals when they are engaged ( not in true bypass), LOL. There are boost pedals which are tube driven of course, but they suck big time compared to a tube amp and they don't sound better than solid state boost pedals. There are exceptions anyway, a fuzzface doesn't suck tone, but it's not really a boost pedal. A Tubescreamer is good only if you have a bad amp, yes it's one of the best solid state pedal, but is going to suck a little bit of tone, not too much, but that enough to be annoying. There are guitarists who didn't use Tubescreamers, Angus Young, Van Halen, Hendrix.
S.R.V sounded great because of his hands, amps, and guitars, and the tubescreamer was in my humble opinion his weakest link.

 

[alvinratsim]

dsl

+10000000

 

[nez70]

Having played through both I'd have to say go with the DSL.

Didn't like the JVM at all.

 

[el diabolo]

Speaking of boost pedals i 've tried MXR Zakk Wylde with my JVM and Xotic BB preamp and they both sound great...
DSL is really good amp,saw Gary Moore live ,i think year ago and he was using DSL ...it doesn't mean JVM's are bad it's just a question of time when JVM will become standard amp like DSL is...ten years ago everybody was curious about DSL and TSL amps cause they were new..every product needs time to become wide used and apriciated...i don't think that Dave Mustaine and his techs don't know a lot about amps so thay choose JVM for him..this is the same old story about all inovative products in guitar/amp technology...i'm glad because i have jvm and in ten years some new guys will ask all people around when marshall make some new amp is that amp good enough like JVM is...and DSL will be like JCM is today...it's just normal way in technology...

and go and play JVM to find out all of it's good and bad sides...

and your tone will depend of your cabinets,your guitar and your PLAYING at the first place...

when i was recording album with JVM i've recorded 80 % of album using two jvm presets and just changing guitars...and it all depended of guitars...every single guitar gave totaly different sound on that amp and same preset as guitar before that one..i haven't seen any amp that racts as good on guitar change as jvm does...i had vox ,fender,jcm,H&K in studio...also...and used my jvm...guys,this is fuckin beast )))))))))

 

[ToddOwnz]

When I say that pedals are solid state therefore suck tone, I am not talking about delays, phasers chorus etc, but just boost pedals when they are engaged ( not in true bypass), LOL. There are boost pedals which are tube driven of course, but they suck big time compared to a tube amp and they don't sound better than solid state boost pedals. There are exceptions anyway, a fuzzface doesn't suck tone, but it's not really a boost pedal. A Tubescreamer is good only if you have a bad amp, yes it's one of the best solid state pedal, but is going to suck a little bit of tone, not too much, but that enough to be annoying. There are guitarists who didn't use Tubescreamers, Angus Young, Van Halen, Hendrix.
S.R.V sounded great because of his hands, amps, and guitars, and the tubescreamer was in my humble opinion his weakest link.

I still completely disagree. Obviously you've had limited experience with boost pedals, especially a TS. I've been using one for years now and it sucks NO TONE whatsoever. It is there to compliment the amp. Try one out before you knock it. SRV used TWO of them...why do you think his sound was so full and round?...

Also, I think you're missing the point of a boost pedal. What does it matter if it's solid state? It's not amplifying anything. The AMP uses tubes to amplify the signal as cleanly as possible. That's why we all love em...A boost pedal is just creating a little hotter (but still clean) signal coming from your guitar which then produces a thicker/fuller sound from the amp.

 

[Australian]

Speaking of boost pedals i 've tried MXR Zakk Wylde with my JVM and Xotic BB preamp and they both sound great...
DSL is really good amp,saw Gary Moore live ,i think year ago and he was using DSL ...it doesn't mean JVM's are bad it's just a question of time when JVM will become standard amp like DSL is...ten years ago everybody was curious about DSL and TSL amps cause they were new..every product needs time to become wide used and apriciated...i don't think that Dave Mustaine and his techs don't know a lot about amps so thay choose JVM for him..this is the same old story about all inovative products in guitar/amp technology...i'm glad because i have jvm and in ten years some new guys will ask all people around when marshall make some new amp is that amp good enough like JVM is...and DSL will be like JCM is today...it's just normal way in technology...

and go and play JVM to find out all of it's good and bad sides...

and your tone will depend of your cabinets,your guitar and your PLAYING at the first place...

when i was recording album with JVM i've recorded 80 % of album using two jvm presets and just changing guitars...and it all depended of guitars...every single guitar gave totaly different sound on that amp and same preset as guitar before that one..i haven't seen any amp that racts as good on guitar change as jvm does...i had vox ,fender,jcm,H&K in studio...also...and used my jvm...guys,this is fuckin beast )))))))))

I use my 410h and 205h in stereo via midi and using a MXR KKEQ.

This is an interesting argument because when I use the JVM 410 thoughts of using boosts or OD's or Dist's dont ever enter my mind.... its all there, the crunch, the OD sounds, the boost, and clean sounds and a Reverb that I quite like on that amp.....

But when i use the JVM 205h i use a Boss 80's Distortion on Clean Green or even Clean/Orange for a Crunch sound and some other OD and Dist pedals. This Crunch sound using the Boss Dist is my favorite crunch sound that i get with a JVM, but i wouldnt bother doing it with the 410.

I'm divided over my favorite setup. The simplicity of the JVM 205 which inspires me to use more pedals which is fun, or the JVM 410 which is all inclusive.

 

[ToddOwnz]

Good write up Australian. I didn't know there was that big of a difference between the 205 and the 410. How do you compare the 205h to your 800s?

 

[Magus Tony]

I still completely disagree. Obviously you've had limited experience with boost pedals, especially a TS. I've been using one for years now and it sucks NO TONE whatsoever. It is there to compliment the amp. Try one out before you knock it. SRV used TWO of them...why do you think his sound was so full and round?...

Also, I think you're missing the point of a boost pedal. What does it matter if it's solid state? It's not amplifying anything. The AMP uses tubes to amplify the signal as cleanly as possible. That's why we all love em...A boost pedal is just creating a little hotter (but still clean) signal coming from your guitar which then produces a thicker/fuller sound from the amp.

What amp are you using? If you crank your amp that's the kind of overdrive that no pedal can give you. I tried many tubescreamers and sold them all since I got a JVM. Imagine Angus Young playing through a boost pedal? Would it make sense? No because you are coloring a tone that's already perfect in all its aspects. I am talking about woody twangy natural tones, if you are into metal probably it's all another subject. And as I said, the two tubescreamers used by SRV it's probably the only thing I didn't like about his tone.

 

[Australian]

Good write up Australian. I didn't know there was that big of a difference between the 205 and the 410. How do you compare the 205h to your 800s?

It depends on what you mean about difference. If you mean tone, the 205 and 410 are very close. But the tone stack is different on the 205 which gives the Clean channel more character I think. For Classic rock the 800's are right on with no tweaking.

 

[MaidenStrat02]

DSL. Minor upgrades are easy and can be done yourself. Installing a new Output Transformer is extremely easy, that and install new preamp tubes. There are plenty of helpful sources on the forum to help in doing these things. I've had mine for awhile and have done some major modding myself and overall it's extremely easy to work on the DSL format. I always think of it this way also, they more stuff in the amp, the more stuff that can go wrong, etc. I wouldn't even want to mess with one of the JVM's interior components.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

...when I use the JVM 410 thoughts of using boosts or OD's or Dist's dont ever enter my mind.... its all there, the crunch, the OD sounds, the boost, and clean sounds and a Reverb that I quite like on that amp.....

RIGHT!
All this talk about buying pedals to boost, whether its an overdrive pedal, a distortion pedal, or an eq pedal, etc., for a DSL may be necessary depending on several factors, but from my discussions with 410H owners, buying an external pedal to boost your 410's sound in terms of volume and/or gain is not often called for. Your "boost" on a JVM 410H could be the second MASTER VOLUME 2 control. If you need a little more gain, then switch to another channel and/or mode and use MASTER VOLUME 2. You can have it any way you like: more gain, same volume, same gain, more volume; more gain, more volume. I've said this many times about the JVM 410H: your success with it depends on spending time with it and really giving it some thought as how you are going to use it! The options can be overwhelming, but you gotta sit down and think about how you will use it and what needs do you have.

 

[slash07]

DSL. Minor upgrades are easy and can be done yourself. Installing a new Output Transformer is extremely easy, that and install new preamp tubes. There are plenty of helpful sources on the forum to help in doing these things. I've had mine for awhile and have done some major modding myself and overall it's extremely easy to work on the DSL format. I always think of it this way also, they more stuff in the amp, the more stuff that can go wrong, etc. I wouldn't even want to mess with one of the JVM's interior components.

I am skeptical buying a DSL-100 and then trying to mod/upgrade it myself with my limited skills. I am not open to experimenting with this idea. It will be a big loss for me if something goes wrong.
On the other hand, I have heard that the transformer on the JVM is big, and stock, the JVM is already containing the stuff which DSL mods consist of. Is that correct?
Furthermore, and even more importantly, can the JVM-410H be made to sound like the DSL?

 

[TwinACStacks]

I am skeptical buying a DSL-100 and then trying to mod/upgrade it myself with my limited skills. I am not open to experimenting with this idea. It will be a big loss for me if something goes wrong.
On the other hand, I have heard that the transformer on the JVM is big, and stock, the JVM is already containing the stuff which DSL mods consist of. Is that correct?
Furthermore, and even more importantly, can the JVM-410H be made to sound like the DSL?

Nope. Only a DSL sounds like a DSL at VOLUME.

TWIN

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

I am skeptical buying a DSL-100 and then trying to mod/upgrade it myself with my limited skills. I am not open to experimenting with this idea. It will be a big loss for me if something goes wrong.
On the other hand, I have heard that the transformer on the JVM is big, and stock, the JVM is already containing the stuff which DSL mods consist of. Is that correct?
Furthermore, and even more importantly, can the JVM-410H be made to sound like the DSL?

The transformers on the JVM should be Dagnalls; they work great and I've never found a need to replace them due to malfunction or discontent with tone. I photographed the output and power transformers on my 410H and posted them, so you can have a look. I don't know about the DSLs transformers, but everytime I tried out a DSL, it always worked great and sounded great, so for me, the transformers on a DSL are not an issue.

As far as modifications go, I like both the DSL 100 and the JVM 410H as is, so modification is not an issue, either.

I do think that on some channels/modes, you can get a JVM 410H to sound like a DSL, but that's only a "ball park" sense of exactitude and not "dead on." They're both in the Marshall family anyway (i.e. the "Marshall sound), so you can expect some overlap, but never anything exact.

 

[DSL100 Dude]

I use a factory stock DSL100. I have tested the JVM series on several occasions. If I were to buy a JVM, it would be a 410 for all the options. I have gotten close on the JVM but it is not a DSL. I think the DSL is more in line with the 800 and SL-X for "raw aggressiveness".

My DSL is my go to amp. I am hardly using anything else now.

 

[SilverEra]

When I say that pedals are solid state therefore suck tone, I am not talking about delays, phasers chorus etc, but just boost pedals when they are engaged ( not in true bypass), Lthey suck big time compared to a tube amp and they don't sound better than solid state boost pedals.

You do realize that a 2203 + BOOST or such is one of the most sought after tones out there?

 

[Magus Tony]

You do realize that a 2203 + BOOST or such is one of the most sought after tones out there?

You can get great tones with a 2202+Boost of course, but that's because many people don't have the chance to crank up their amps all the time, or they hate attenuators. With a JVM 410 you don't need to crank it up, it's the only Marshall that allows you to sound great even at bedroom volumes.