JVM205C + Diezel VH4-2 - Something is wrong here...

[Carnologe]

Hey there,

a fortnight ago i finally received my JVM205C - great amp so far. As i like the sound of the Diezel Amps but don't want to afford a Diezel head i decided to buy the VH4-2 pedal instead - also great so far. It is best sounding when putting it into the Power Amp In of the JVM205C - it's a freaking good sound i can tell you. Bypass/Active switch on the back of the amp is on active.

Let's jump to my topic: The VH4-2 has a "To Clean Guitar Amp in" jack which i have connected with the Input jack of the JVM205C. I played a while with the VH4-2 activated but then i thought it's time to play something clean and so i deactivated the VH4-2 but i was not able to get a clean sound out of the JVM205C with that config. Am i missunderstanding something here? I don't think that something is broken but me after buying that gear. Thanks for your help!

 

[Sacalait]

Maybe the design of the pedal is to input it INTO a clean channel. That wouldn't mean the result would be clean. Some OD/distortion boxes work better on clean amps- like the Suhr Riot I have. But I could be wrong...

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

Hey there,

a fortnight ago i finally received my JVM205C - great amp so far. As i like the sound of the Diezel Amps but don't want to afford a Diezel head i decided to buy the VH4-2 pedal instead - also great so far. It is best sounding when putting it into the Power Amp In of the JVM205C - it's a freaking good sound i can tell you. Bypass/Active switch on the back of the amp is on active.

Let's jump to my topic: The VH4-2 has a "To Clean Guitar Amp in" jack which i have connected with the Input jack of the JVM205C. I played a while with the VH4-2 activated but then i thought it's time to play something clean and so i deactivated the VH4-2 but i was not able to get a clean sound out of the JVM205C with that config. Am i missunderstanding something here? I don't think that something is broken but me after buying that gear. Thanks for your help!


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Let me get this straight.
1) The VH4-2 is a distortion/overdrive/dirt pedal.
2) You have connected a distortion pedal (VH4-2) into the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP."
3) You also connected connected the VH4-2 to the instrument jack of the JVM

Am I right so far?

If so, then the problem might be connecting the VH4-2 into JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP." The JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP" is a line level loop designed for high headroom devices, which a distortion/overdrive/dirt pedal like the VH4-2 would not qualify as a line level device with high headroom.

From the JVM manual:

11. POWER AMP INSERT / SERIAL LOOP​

This is a passive loop connected right before the master controls. It is a line level loop so it is recommended to only use high headroom devices to avoid signal degradation. Plugging only into the return jack allows the use of the JVM’s power section overriding the preamp.​

If I understand correctly, the VH4-2 is designed to be connected in a variety of ways, including feeding directly into a power amp. If this is the case, you can try connecting the pedal into the JVM "SERIAL/PARALLEL FX LOOP" to see if that makes a difference in your quest for a "clean" tone while using the VH4-2.

I know the point of this thread is that you're trying to get a "clean" tone while using the VH4-2 and the JVM, but I don't see how you're gonna get a clean tone while using a distortion/overdrive/dirt pedal like the VH4-2. Maybe I don't understand the design of the VH4-2.

 

[Kostas]

...I played a while with the VH4-2 activated but then i thought it's time to play something clean and so i deactivated the VH4-2 but i was not able to get a clean sound out of the JVM205C with that config...

Try the VH4-2 in another amp if you have and see what happens.
Try the JVM with another drive pedal connected/deactivated. If the JVM works as expected contact Diezel.

It wouldn't hurt to try different cables too.

 

[Carnologe]

Thanks guys. For a better overview i replied within your quote. Please expand them to read my answers.

Let me get this straight.
1) The VH4-2 is a distortion/overdrive/dirt pedal.
2) You have connected a distortion pedal (VH4-2) into the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP."
3) You also connected connected the VH4-2 to the instrument jack of the JVM

Am I right so far?

- Correct. Regarding your point no #3: I did that because i thought i can switch to the clean channel of the JVM when deactivating the Diezel (Bypass). That's what i meant when i was speaking of "I want to play clean". Luckily the Diezel has 2 Channels and what i didn't try yet was to make the second channel as clean as possible.

If I understand correctly, the VH4-2 is designed to be connected in a variety of ways, including feeding directly into a power amp. If this is the case, you can try connecting the pedal into the JVM "SERIAL/PARALLEL FX LOOP" to see if that makes a difference in your quest for a "clean" tone while using the VH4-2.

- I did it that the days before but just out of curiosity (and because i've read the same like you, that the VH4-2 can be connected to a power amp), i connected it to the Power Amp In Jack of the JVM. My problem now is, that i have heard how the VH4-2 sounds that way and it makes a huge difference for me. My latest understanding is, when i do so, the Diezel is in front of the Preamp and doesn't get influenced by the Marshall'esque sound signature. A few minutes ago i plugged everything back into the FX Loop and well, it sounds good, but not the same. And yes, when i use it withing the FX Loop i can just switch betweens the channels.

I know the point of this thread is that you're trying to get a "clean" tone while using the VH4-2 and the JVM, but I don't see how you're gonna get a clean tone while using a distortion/overdrive/dirt pedal like the VH4-2. Maybe I don't understand the design of the VH4-2.

- See my first answer in your quote. It never was my intention to play clean with a Distortion pedal, but i thought i can use both the distorted sound of the Diezel and the clean sound of the JVM. Right now i can't really understand why it doesn't work that way. Contacted the Diezel support and Peter himself replied:

Hello ,

if you use the „to power amp” jack of the pedal the “ bypass” switch will mute the signal.

I don't know if it's technically necessary that the Bypass will mute the signal once it's connected to "To power amp". Question: What if will keep using the VH4-2 into the Power Amp Jack. Can i add other Effects e.g. a BOSS DD-3?

Try the VH4-2 in another amp if you have and see what happens.
Try the JVM with another drive pedal connected/deactivated. If the JVM works as expected contact Diezel.

- Thanks for your help, but i think that my problem is based of my lack of technical knowledge.

 

[G the wildman]

Don't forget for the clean on Green the volume dial does not function.

have you got both master volumes up high enough.

switch the loop button off on the front big the amp,

 

[Carnologe]

Don't forget for the clean on Green the volume dial does not function.

have you got both master volumes up high enough.

switch the loop button off on the front big the amp,

Double and triple checked.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Maybe the design of the pedal is to input it INTO a clean channel. That wouldn't mean the result would be clean. Some OD/distortion boxes work better on clean amps- like the Suhr Riot I have. But I could be wrong...

I would agree. Reading the description on their website, it seems it's intended to replicate the rhythm and lead channels of the VH4 amp, either into the front end of a clean amp (low level signal into the amp) or into a power amp input (higher level signal into the amp). Since the box doesn't seem to have a "bypass" function, he would either have to use it in the switchable JVM loop (loop off for JVM clean, on for VH4 dirt), or use an A/B box in front of the amp to route the guitar signal, either directly into the amp (JVM clean), or through the VH4-2 (dirt).

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

I've had a chance to look at a few videos to see how people are connecting the VH4-2 to an amp. It looks like most people are using the "either/or" connections that "marshmellow" described. I'm not seeing too many people hook up the VH4-2 to both the amplifier input and the amplifier power amp at the same time.

What is interesting is the pedal has a "bypass/mute" switch, but I'm not sure how it works with the outputs labeled "to clean guitar amp in" and the "to power amp in." I read where Peter Diezel wrote to you and said, "if you use the „to power amp” jack of the pedal the “ bypass” switch will mute the signal." I can only guess that the "bypass/mute" switch works as a sort of toggle switch between the two outputs?

A question you asked was " Question: What if will keep using the VH4-2 into the Power Amp Jack. Can i add other Effects e.g. a BOSS DD-3?" I think that if are using the VH4-2 into the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP," then you can add the effects before or after the VH4-2 (I don't know whether you'll like the results, but it should "work"). But if you connect the VH4-2 into the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP" and then connect effects into the JVM "SERIAL/PARALLEL FX LOOP," the result will be no sound from the effects in the "SERIAL/PARALLEL FX LOOP." I think you effects would have to be placed either before or after the VH4-2 when the VH4-2 is connected to the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP." I rarely use the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP" so I could be wrong about it's use with the "SERIAL?PARALLEL FX LOOP."

Good luck with your pedal. Let us know what connections work best for you. The VH4-2 sounds like a great pedal!

 

[Carnologe]

Good morning guys,

thanks for your great support. See my answers below (This time outside the quote box).

I would agree. Reading the description on their website, it seems it's intended to replicate the rhythm and lead channels of the VH4 amp, either into the front end of a clean amp (low level signal into the amp) or into a power amp input (higher level signal into the amp). Since the box doesn't seem to have a "bypass" function, he would either have to use it in the switchable JVM loop (loop off for JVM clean, on for VH4 dirt), or use an A/B box in front of the amp to route the guitar signal, either directly into the amp (JVM clean), or through the VH4-2 (dirt).

I think this is it. Using an A/B Switch can solve my problems. Only thing that i have in mind is, will the JVM work like that when the "Power Amp In" is plugged in at the same time? Will give it a go. Any recommendations for an A/B Switch? Edit: How about the MXR M-196 A/B Box?

I've had a chance to look at a few videos to see how people are connecting the VH4-2 to an amp. It looks like most people are using the "either/or" connections that "marshmellow" described. I'm not seeing too many people hook up the VH4-2 to both the amplifier input and the amplifier power amp at the same time.

What is interesting is the pedal has a "bypass/mute" switch, but I'm not sure how it works with the outputs labeled "to clean guitar amp in" and the "to power amp in." I read where Peter Diezel wrote to you and said, "if you use the „to power amp” jack of the pedal the “ bypass” switch will mute the signal." I can only guess that the "bypass/mute" switch works as a sort of toggle switch between the two outputs?

A question you asked was " Question: What if will keep using the VH4-2 into the Power Amp Jack. Can i add other Effects e.g. a BOSS DD-3?" I think that if are using the VH4-2 into the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP," then you can add the effects before or after the VH4-2 (I don't know whether you'll like the results, but it should "work"). But if you connect the VH4-2 into the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP" and then connect effects into the JVM "SERIAL/PARALLEL FX LOOP," the result will be no sound from the effects in the "SERIAL/PARALLEL FX LOOP." I think you effects would have to be placed either before or after the VH4-2 when the VH4-2 is connected to the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP." I rarely use the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP" so I could be wrong about it's use with the "SERIAL?PARALLEL FX LOOP."

Good luck with your pedal. Let us know what connections work best for you. The VH4-2 sounds like a great pedal!

Yeah, you're totally right. My solution seems to be a bit special but since it sounds best for me i'll try to solve the issues. As mentioned before i will try an A/B Switch. Diezel wrote me one more time and told me, that the pedal will only work in the clean channel. Was a short answer, but that doesn't bother me.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

@Carnologe : yes, try it your way first. If you can get it to work the way you want, then it may offer a solution for the VH4-2 and other pedals like it.

If it doesn't work out, another connection method you could try is this one from the JVM manual that is similar to what "marshmello" wrote:

Hint 3:
To use a different preamplifier and combine it with the JVM channels, connect the external preamplifier output to the parallel loop return and turn the MIX to WET. Connect the external preamp input with a splitter to the amplifiers input (it might be necessary to use an active splitter to keep a high impedance and/or an isolated one to avoid ground loops). Switching the effects loop ON and OFF will alternate between the external preamp and the JVM preamp​

The method in "hint 3" doesn't connect into the JVM "POWER AMP INSERT/SERIAL LOOP" but it does give you options to use the VH4-2 as well as the JVM's own channels and modes, giving you tone options.

But if you want to use other effects with the VH4-2, then you might have to simply connect the VH4-2 into the JVM front panel "input" and then put you effects in the JVM "PARALLEL/SERIAL LOOP FX LOOP" or else put them in line somewhere with your VH4-2.

Good luck with the rig.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Good morning guys,

thanks for your great support. See my answers below (This time outside the quote box).



I think this is it. Using an A/B Switch can solve my problems. Only thing that i have in mind is, will the JVM work like that when the "Power Amp In" is plugged in at the same time?

No, if you have something plugged into the JVM "power amp in", you will be bypassing the preamp of the JVM completely. The only time you would want to run this configuration, is if you only wanted the sound of the VH4-2 through the JVM power amp. If you want both, the JVM clean, and the VH4-2 overdrive, you would need to run one of the 2 configurations already mentioned...

Guitar & VH4-2 > A/B box > JVM guitar input
Guitar > JVM guitar input + VH4-2 in the switchable loop (loop off for JVM clean, loop on for VH4-2)

 

[Carnologe]

Long Story short: Will send back the amp and the pedal and go for a VH4 Head. There is no explanation for my illness...Looking for a good deal atm but not sure which cabinet i should use with it. Was looking for a 4x12 (my neighbours will love it) with V30s and i think it is going to be the Diezel Cab itself or a Mesa. Any recommendation from your side? Target sound >>>> Adam Jones (what else to do with a VH4). Cheers

 

[Jeff Hudson]

Hey there,

a fortnight ago i finally received my JVM205C - great amp so far. As i like the sound of the Diezel Amps but don't want to afford a Diezel head i decided to buy the VH4-2 pedal instead - also great so far. It is best sounding when putting it into the Power Amp In of the JVM205C - it's a freaking good sound i can tell you. Bypass/Active switch on the back of the amp is on active.

Let's jump to my topic: The VH4-2 has a "To Clean Guitar Amp in" jack which i have connected with the Input jack of the JVM205C. I played a while with the VH4-2 activated but then i thought it's time to play something clean and so i deactivated the VH4-2 but i was not able to get a clean sound out of the JVM205C with that config. Am i missunderstanding something here? I don't think that something is broken but me after buying that gear. Thanks for your help!


View attachment 62917

A high gain pedal into a high gain amp is not a good recipe for clean tone.