live 1973 jimmy page marshall tone

[purpleplexi]

Hhmmm. A lot of JPs recorded Zep tone is definitely in the out of phase position. You can't get that on a stock LP so he at least has to have had that mod done. When I was doing the Led Zep tribute I spent a lot of time chasing his tones. Soon as I wired my LP out of phase it was easy. Easier.

 

[El Gringo]

Hhmmm. A lot of JPs recorded Zep tone is definitely in the out of phase position. You can't get that on a stock LP so he at least has to have had that mod done. When I was doing the Led Zep tribute I spent a lot of time chasing his tones. Soon as I wired my LP out of phase it was easy. Easier.

That's it in a nut shell . JP lives in that middle position .

 

[AndyD]

The conclusion I came to was Les Paul + wah + Echoplex + '69 Plexi + B cab with G12h30s 55hz pulsonic cones. Its the sum of all of these parts!

Further to my comments above, you need to add his use of light strings. 0.008 apparently!

 

[tallcoolone]

Hhmmm. A lot of JPs recorded Zep tone is definitely in the out of phase position. You can't get that on a stock LP so he at least has to have had that mod done. When I was doing the Led Zep tribute I spent a lot of time chasing his tones. Soon as I wired my LP out of phase it was easy. Easier.

Hate to sound like a broken record but Page’s guitars were wired stock the entire time he was in Led Zeppelin—this ‘need to mod your guitar to get Zep tones’ is not true at all.

Marshall superlead treble channel turned up to about 6-7, g12H speakers, KT88 tubes, Les Paul.

 

[tallcoolone]

Further to my comments above, you need to add his use of light strings. 0.008 apparently!

Same as Billy Gibbons. To each their own I guess.

 

[purpleplexi]

I remember reading an article by JP's tech telling all about the mods he'd done on both guitars. That was sometime in the 70s. I don't recall when he said he did it. However I flipped the magnet in my LP in about 20 minutes and I have no reason to assume that JP was unable to do the same. Also listening to JP playing the stolen black beauty on the double DVD they released a few years ago a lot of the sounds on that are clearly out of phase.

Try playing say - The Ocean - on a guitar with conventionally wired pickups and I don't care what amp/guitar/strings you have you won't get that tone. Pick up any old LP wired out of phase and you'll get very close very easily. So unless you know JP personally (actually I know someone who does) or you've played his guitars and looked in the cavities or you have inside knowledge from some other source you'd care to reveal then JPs guitars were at least out of phase in some way during Zep.

 

[tallcoolone]

I remember reading an article by JP's tech telling all about the mods he'd done on both guitars. That was sometime in the 70s. I don't recall when he said he did it. However I flipped the magnet in my LP in about 20 minutes and I have no reason to assume that JP was unable to do the same. Also listening to JP playing the stolen black beauty on the double DVD they released a few years ago a lot of the sounds on that are clearly out of phase.

Try playing say - The Ocean - on a guitar with conventionally wired pickups and I don't care what amp/guitar/strings you have you won't get that tone. Pick up any old LP wired out of phase and you'll get very close very easily. So unless you know JP personally (actually I know someone who does) or you've played his guitars and looked in the cavities or you have inside knowledge from some other source you'd care to reveal then JPs guitars were at least out of phase in some way during Zep.

Well that’s the studio tone and it’s done from the tape, not the guitar. All the guitar mods were done in the early 80s, it’s very well documented.

The RAH tone is the Hiwatt which is voiced a lot differently than the Marshall

As far as the Ocean, it’s easy to nail his tone on TSRTS—superlead, treble input, vol on 6-7, kt88s, g12h30 speakers

 

[SamPatrickPage]

That sounds amazing and authentic.

Could you tell a bit more about your guitar, signal chain, amp and speakers ?

Thanks a lot!!



That's my definitive video, i changed a few things, and in the description you can find my gear

 

[Seven]

Long time fan of Zep and Mr. Page.

Your tone quest is noble, but not an easy one, but very worthwhile.

Having gear that is at least in the ballpark is a good start, but what we hear on recordings is NOT what they were hearing on stage. As incredible as it must have been hearing himself play live, he was a sound crafter from way back and I'm sure he had a final say on the mix. The type of analog mic pres and outboard compression from back then, plus magnetic tape, all play a part in the final tone. Those big wooden stages were often made of scaffolding with sheets of plywood on top so all sorts of things affect what we "think" we are hearing. He certainly recorded live with at least two amps engaged at all times. It's part of his secrete sauce. One is usually slightly cleaner than the other.

The SRTS film was a massive production during that era of music and maybe second to none at the time. Way ahead of their time !

Mr. Page was clearly using volume from the power amps and not so much from the preamps. I know people get mad when I bring this up, but playing THAT LOUD at home would blow out the windows and blow out your hearing. No bar or club would allow it either so it's just not an easy thing to replicate.

There is a right hand technique I call "feathering" where you have your amp turned up loud, but with clean-ish eq and gently attack the strings with your pick/plectrum. You will learn how to MUTE the MAYHEM with every available piece of skin on both hands, including the tips of your fingers that are holding the pick. It madness at first, until you learn to control it, which includes using volume and tone on the guitar. It's just the way so many of the Rock Gods learned to play back then.

I don't know if this is like a magician giving away the secrets to the most coveted magic tricks, but Mr. Page was the master of this technique.

There are others, like Gary Moore and even more recently, Joe Bonnamassa who use this to great effect.

Listen to Tea For One. It will explain much.

 

[shooto]

Catalinbread RAH

 

[tallcoolone]

Long time fan of Zep and Mr. Page.

Your tone quest is noble, but not an easy one, but very worthwhile.

Having gear that is at least in the ballpark is a good start, but what we hear on recordings is NOT what they were hearing on stage. As incredible as it must have been hearing himself play live, he was a sound crafter from way back and I'm sure he had a final say on the mix. The type of analog mic pres and outboard compression from back then, plus magnetic tape, all play a part in the final tone. Those big wooden stages were often made of scaffolding with sheets of plywood on top so all sorts of things affect what we "think" we are hearing. He certainly recorded live with at least two amps engaged at all times. It's part of his secrete sauce. One is usually slightly cleaner than the other.

The SRTS film was a massive production during that era of music and maybe second to none at the time. Way ahead of their time !

Mr. Page was clearly using volume from the power amps and not so much from the preamps. I know people get mad when I bring this up, but playing THAT LOUD at home would blow out the windows and blow out your hearing. No bar or club would allow it either so it's just not an easy thing to replicate.

There is a right hand technique I call "feathering" where you have your amp turned up loud, but with clean-ish eq and gently attack the strings with your pick/plectrum. You will learn how to MUTE the MAYHEM with every available piece of skin on both hands, including the tips of your fingers that are holding the pick. It madness at first, until you learn to control it, which includes using volume and tone on the guitar. It's just the way so many of the Rock Gods learned to play back then.

I don't know if this is like a magician giving away the secrets to the most coveted magic tricks, but Mr. Page was the master of this technique.

There are others, like Gary Moore and even more recently, Joe Bonnamassa who use this to great effect.

Listen to Tea For One. It will explain much.

Not sure you’re gonna get a lot of back and forth from the OP, he left 14 years ago

 

[tallcoolone]

Catalinbread RAH

Nah

 

[shooto]

Nah

uhhh...yeah...

 

[tallcoolone]

uhhh...yeah...

I’ve got one right here. It is an ok take on Page’s Hiwatt from the RAH show that was shown on the LZDVD. Doesn’t—and isn’t meant to—sound anything like his 73 tone and honestly I don’t think it sounds or feels that good in front of a Marshall.

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

On a LP in the middle position you can get a wide spectrum of tones by just how the volume and tone knobs interact.

 

[Seven]

Not sure you’re gonna get a lot of back and forth from the OP, he left 14 years ago

Next time I'll look. I did revive an old thread.

 

[solarburn]

Next time I'll look. I did revive an old thread.

Most of us have done this one time or another.

 

[solarburn]

I’ve got one right here. It is an ok take on Page’s Hiwatt from the RAH show that was shown on the LZDVD. Doesn’t—and isn’t meant to—sound anything like his 73 tone and honestly I don’t think it sounds or feels that good in front of a Marshall.

I was jus pondering...in what mind I have left. JP played different amps. His tone to my ears was always the same. Not style but tone.

I'm no JP history gear guy but when I think about what I love about his tone? The Song remained the same. His tone.

 

[tallcoolone]

I was jus pondering...in what mind I have left. JP played different amps. His tone to my ears was always the same. Not style but tone.

I'm no JP history gear guy but when I think about what I love about his tone? The Song remained the same. His tone.

This is the best example out there of Page through his custom Hiwatt. Love this tone and this is what CB is trying to replicate with the RAH. I have one of these boxes and sonically through a cleanish amp it does a good job. IMO it does not work that well in front of a ‘breathing’ amp and is a bit stiff. Sure the Moby Dick riff sounds fantastic through it but what rig doesn’t that riff sound fantastic through? Not so much with the classic live 73 Pagey frenetic lead playing. For that it really is low output pickups, high input Super Lead with kt88 tubes, TMBP cranked and treble volume at 7ish. EP-3 in front. G12h30 speakers

 

[Dogs of Doom]