Marshall 1987 vs. 2204 for vintage AC/DC (Angus) tone?

[core]

I have to agree to a point but I think it's great to see new bands trying to revive the oldschool rock sound. Although these guys' lyrics are nowhere near as catchy as AC/DC. AC/DC's entire catalog is pretty damn memorable.

Same with their image. On Highway To Hell, the simplicity of the image of the band with Angus' attitude and subtle devil horns was intense, powerful, especially for that time. Just a straight shot of these guys in front of a mugshot wall isn't badass enough to compete on that level. But I still like 'em for what they are.

 

[MisterScary]

I have to agree to a point but I think it's great to see new bands trying to revive the oldschool rock sound. Although these guys' lyrics are nowhere near as catchy as AC/DC. AC/DC's entire catalog is pretty damn memorable.

Same with their image. On Highway To Hell, the simplicity of the image of the band with Angus' attitude and subtle devil horns was intense, powerful, especially for that time. Just a straight shot of these guys in front of a mugshot wall isn't badass enough to compete on that level. But I still like 'em for what they are.

Well said!

 

[Frank]

Personally, I think the JTM45 (30w w/ gz34) would do the job properly.

Just love this amp, but the master volumes sounds more nasty.

 

[blues_n_cues]

i'd go w/ the old 2204.
granted i'm a cloner now but this amp is a 2204 w/ el34's.. but my old '81 2204 and an lp had Angus nailed- depending on what guitar you have -play w/ the volume knob.
w/ my epi lp custom-i'm getting hell's bells tone pat. i'm thinking tnt too w/ 3/4 volume.on the lp bridge pickup.

 

[ironlung40]

I would leave the MV to 10 and play with the preamp. AC/DC is not much about gain but power amp saturation.
I think Jcmjmp would give too much gain for that.

+1....my 2204 and 2203 have wayyy more gain than early AC/DC with the preamp set high.....If I want AC/DC crunch, I have my preamp gain set on 4-6(NOT o'clock readings) depending on the master volume level.

 

[MartyStrat54]

Good to see this thread still going strong. Must be the subject matter.

Well since I posted last, I got my hot rod twin channel 2204 and my JMP 2203. I have played TSL's since 2003 and you can get an AC/DC tone, but the 2204 and 2203 "is" the AC/DC tone. These amps just naturally sound like AC/DC with a hot humbucker in a Gibson guitar. The bridge pickup of my Explorer (500T) is very stout. I do not have to use much gain at all for AC/DC crunch. Roll up the volume and twiddle dee twiddle dum, the AC/DC leads have the same tone structure.

I would highly recommend a 2203 or 2204 in JCM or JMP models.

 

[Pinelake]

I'm probably way off base, but I was once told Angus used an ADA MP-1 in conjunction with the Marshall's. Maybe not, but sharing an old rumor.

Indiana

 

[SoloDallas]

Many thanks, you're very welcome.

It's not AC/DC but...
This isn't bad either if you are looking to reproduce AC/DC tones... Shoot to Thrill to be exact.
As well as using vintage stuff he does also use a new Angus Young Sig guitar (along with a Gretsch) and a small Marshall Valvestate amp.
Worth a watch and maybe get a few pointers if you're tone hunting.

Cheers
Doc Z.

Thanks Doc Z, honored to have your mention on me here.
Just found this thread while looking for a JMP 2203 (vintage) for myself.

I keep on amassing gear as I get older.

Good thread,

SD

 

[SGACE]

SD, keep the nice work that you are doing in YouTube. My advise is to buy a MV amp from mid 1977 to 1980.

In the rehearsals for the album Flick of the Switch videos I've noticed that in some points the camera points the rear side of Angus amps. I found it very interesting. I watched them carefuly and I took some notes, here You go,

Guns For Hire take 4
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TK84O2Wc10]YouTube - AC/DC 10-05-1983 Guns For Hire {Take 4} Rehearsals[/ame]
During 3:34- 3:42

Guns For Hire take 5
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kfHIl_c_78]YouTube - AC/DC 10-05-1983 Guns For Hire {Take 5} Rehearsals[/ame]
During 6:02- 6:05

Guns For Hire take 6
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpvcB7v_3HY]YouTube - AC/DC - Guns For Hire [Take 6] - Rehearsals [Los Angeles 1983][/ame]
During 2:34- 2:39

Guns For Hire take 8
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6i9ZjsqlIA]YouTube - AC/DC - Guns For Hire [Take 8] - Rehearsals [Los Angeles 1983][/ame]
During 0:33- 0:49

Rising Power take 1
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pXD4Pki8lc]YouTube - AC/DC 10-05-1983 Rising Power {Take 1} Rehearsals[/ame]
During 2:21- 2:30

Ok there are some things that I noticed
1. Angus amps are two 1959 models and one 1987
2 Angus SG is a 1980-1981 Standard model ( I have one, mine is equipped with Super Humbuckers tarbacks).

 

[SoloDallas]

Sgace,
thanks very much for both your encouragement and these additional details.
I hadn't noticed them!
I thought the guitar was a 1974, to tell you the truth, or at least, a mid to late 70s design (inlays had suggested me that). It's always good to learn more.
And actually, it makes sense, since Angus appeared with this guitar in the early '80s.

I am finally glad to see for certain that he at least had ONE 1987 head. Many of my videos were shot with a 1987 (don't like the JTM as much) and I was curious to know if he ever owned and played a 1987!

Thanks again,

SD

 

[SGACE]

"I thought the guitar was a 1974, to tell you the truth, or at least, a mid to late 70s design (inlays had suggested me that)"
This guitar has the cord plug from the side not from the usual front side, this is enough to determine that it is an early 1980 model. Here it is,
1980 Gibson guitar, bass and banjo catalogue - page 29 - SG Standard

One of the reasons that I searched the internet to find which amp will suit my needs was the amazing tone that you have with the David Bray mod. Really he done a very good job with your amp (1987x). I have played with two different marshall 1987x amps with no mods and believe me they didn't tick anything inside me. I felt that something is missing.
You live in Italy and I live in Greece so you know how difficult is to find the best stuff and how expensive it is the shipping cost. I was too close to buy a David Bray amp but the total cost was over my budget. Therefore I tried to find via internet search the most appropriate solution for me and I believe that Marshall 2203, 2204. 2103 and 2104 are the best choice to get the AC/DC tone on a reasonable price. I bought my 2104 in pristine condition for 550 pounds. Anyway of course this is my personal opinion but again I will highly recommend to at least try once the 2203/2204 amps.

PS. The SG standard 1981 model has the thinnest neck in comparison with other SG's that I have tried ( 1961 reissue, 2000 std models, 1991 std model, late 70's std models). I am curious what is the radius of the 1970-1971 SG that you have.

 

[Doctor_Zoidberg]

Thanks Doc Z, honored to have your mention on me here.
Just found this thread while looking for a JMP 2203 (vintage) for myself.

I keep on amassing gear as I get older.

Good thread,

SD

The pleasure is all mine, and keep up the excellent work.

Doc Z

 

[Doctor_Zoidberg]

While Neck profiles have been mentioned here a bit of info I put together on them after much gnashing of teeth and a lot of swearing... as after lots of measuring things just didn't appear to be making any sense to me....

Having gone through this neck profile thing 12 months ago with a Gibson 335 neck, 50's vs 60's profile, I eventually found out something rather interesting.
I spent ages measuring neck thicknesses at the 1st, 7th and 12th frets on loads of different makes of guitars, some with necks I liked and some with necks I didn't like and I found very little difference in thickness this was quite baffling. So what was the actual difference between the Gibson 50's type profile that I prefer the feel of and the 60's that I didn't like at all?
Turns out not to be the thickness of the neck measured from the fretboard to the back of the neck but the steepness or angle of the shoulder area just after the fretboard (see diagram).

So it's not quite as easily measurable as it first appears to be.
It took me a long time to find this out.
Hope it's of some help and makes things a bit clearer.

Cheers
Doc Z.

 

[SoloDallas]

"I thought the guitar was a 1974, to tell you the truth, or at least, a mid to late 70s design (inlays had suggested me that)"
This guitar has the cord plug from the side not from the usual front side, this is enough to determine that it is an early 1980 model. Here it is,
1980 Gibson guitar, bass and banjo catalogue - page 29 - SG Standard

One of the reasons that I searched the internet to find which amp will suit my needs was the amazing tone that you have with the David Bray mod. Really he done a very good job with your amp (1987x). I have played with two different marshall 1987x amps with no mods and believe me they didn't tick anything inside me. I felt that something is missing.
You live in Italy and I live in Greece so you know how difficult is to find the best stuff and how expensive it is the shipping cost. I was too close to buy a David Bray amp but the total cost was over my budget. Therefore I tried to find via internet search the most appropriate solution for me and I believe that Marshall 2203, 2204. 2103 and 2104 are the best choice to get the AC/DC tone on a reasonable price. I bought my 2104 in pristine condition for 550 pounds. Anyway of course this is my personal opinion but again I will highly recommend to at least try once the 2203/2204 amps.

PS. The SG standard 1981 model has the thinnest neck in comparison with other SG's that I have tried ( 1961 reissue, 2000 std models, 1991 std model, late 70's std models). I am curious what is the radius of the 1970-1971 SG that you have.

George, I was re-reading this. Funny that we didn't know each other back then. Re-reading this I feel like you had grasped very well the nature of AC/DC mid to late 70s amps: JMPs. I hadn't researched it.
What I had done, was to ask David Bray for help in this.
And he modded my 1987 - reissue - with a JMP addition. I only realized this yesterday, and today is September 30th 2010.
By pulling the push/pull high treble volume mod that Bray did for me, I am putting my 1987XL into JMP mode. I hadn't realized until yesterday!
The funny thing is in fact that, I NEVER used this mode thoroughly until yesterday. NONE of my videos so far shot with 1987XL had the volume pulled (for added drive).
I did yesterday in my home studio and suddenly found out.
Still, I am waiting on JMPs to be delivered to my studio and will use those, but I needed to let you know that you and other folks here that I learned from here

 

[Lespaulnmarshall]

George, I was re-reading this. Funny that we didn't know each other back then. Re-reading this I feel like you had grasped very well the nature of AC/DC mid to late 70s amps: JMPs. I hadn't researched it.
What I had done, was to ask David Bray for help in this.
And he modded my 1987 - reissue - with a JMP addition. I only realized this yesterday, and today is September 30th 2010.
By pulling the push/pull high treble volume mod that Bray did for me, I am putting my 1987XL into JMP mode. I hadn't realized until yesterday!
The funny thing is in fact that, I NEVER used this mode thoroughly until yesterday. NONE of my videos so far shot with 1987XL had the volume pulled (for added drive).
I did yesterday in my home studio and suddenly found out.
Still, I am waiting on JMPs to be delivered to my studio and will use those, but I needed to let you know that you and other folks here that I learned from here

Hey solo dallas good to see you over here, I'm a big fan of you and your tone!

 

[SGACE]

Fil, the David Bray amp that you have is really great that's for sure, for me it sounds better than metro amp for the AC/DC thing. But now you have the ability
to compare between a JMP 2204 and a moded amp. I bet that the 2204 will sound better overall. Lets see, as I said I cant wait for these videos at your site.

Another thing for discussion is the diference in sound between 1977-78-79 and 1980-81 period. I have read that each year were small changes in capasitors (some had lego, etc). Also that these small changes made the late JMP's (late 1979, 1980, 1981) to have more aggressive sound than the others.

 

[SoloDallas]

Hey solo dallas good to see you over here, I'm a big fan of you and your tone!

Thanks mate.

George, the JMP I got yesterday blows away anything I have ever owned. At least this is my first impression. Now I need to go back there, play more and record it.

VERY interesting what you say about all the little details/changes.
My obsession is until 1980/1981 AC/DC tone. After that, I become uninterested

I would love to have a chance to fond out what exact year those AC/DC JMPs were. Imagine if we could know.

 

[SGACE]

As I said the recording session that you will do, I am sure that it will blow our brains out.

"My obsession is until 1980/1981 AC/DC tone"
Yes me too, but this tone has a connection with Powerage that it is 3 years before. Regardless all the game comes to two factors for the BNB - FOTS albums,
1. Did they use the initial 1977 JMP's or did they changed to 1980/81 models?
2. Did they use greenbacks or the g12-65 speakers?

when the vintage 30's came out, they started using them (especialy in live situation), maybe was the same with g12-65. I say maybe..

 

[ironlung40]

Thanks for all the great replies!

According to Musicians Friend, it's discontinued. Perhaps Marshall still makes it but MF discontinued it form their stock: Buy Marshall Vintage Modern 2266 Tube Amp Head | Tube Amp Heads | Musician's Friend

Also, Zzounds doesn't carry the amp any longer: Marshall 2266 Vintage Modern at zZounds

The Palmer PDI-03 looks like a great piece of gear!

I hate how Guitar Center, MF, and others make blanket statements like "discontinued" etc. They also mislead customers by not describing gear accurately. They always hose up the Gibson custom shop line with misinformed info......I never believe anything I read on their sites without close scrutiny......as far as I know the VM line is not continued, although I believe most are shipping in black now instead of the original purple......

 

[SoloDallas]

As I said the recording session that you will do, I am sure that it will blow our brains out.

"My obsession is until 1980/1981 AC/DC tone"
Yes me too, but this tone has a connection with Powerage that it is 3 years before. Regardless all the game comes to two factors for the BNB - FOTS albums,
1. Did they use the initial 1977 JMP's or did they changed to 1980/81 models?
2. Did they use greenbacks or the g12-65 speakers?

when the vintage 30's came out, they started using them (especialy in live situation), maybe was the same with g12-65. I say maybe..

George,
these were exactly the questions - these are them - that I have in mind as of now.
I too am massively into Powerage. I have a picture of Angus recording Powerage with a JMP on his side. Want to see it?
But anyways. You stroke another major point: speakers (and cabinets).
You know I have both types, the greenbacks 25 watts being "vintage" in my slanted cabinet (that I am restoring by the way). It dates back to 1969.
Then I have the non slanted reissue with V30s in it.

Well, when I played that cabinet with the JMP100 yesterday, it seemed even better than the greenbacks. Reason: scooping mids. Yes sir.
So the question that I am ask you now is, do you think - too - that slightly higher speaker wattage would scoop the mids? Is it just things I am hearing or is there a proven theory/practice that is even well known here and I am just a noob at all this?

The latter, being my guts feeling