Marshall 50 Origin vs Handmade Plexi/M800 for high gain. Tech help

[What?]

I agree. Don't spend that much on an Origin. I'll get some tomatoes thrown in my direction, but don't buy an Origin at all.

 

[niazmet]

Dude...if that Plexi/JCM800 is remotely close to those...get THAT! The Origin is fine for that sorta old-school Fender-y-ish thing...and pedals really do well with it apparently! But damn dude...getting a seemingly fairly legit Plexi and a JCM800 (with some sort of clipping or whatever switch that's doing) would be bad ass. The Origin is nice and fine but stock, not pedals, its FAR from what you are looking for. It's a no brainer for me. The Origin is great for the cheap used price, but I'd never buy one for that freaking much money. That Pegasus looks pretty rad in the youtube demos! Lots to work with there. Lots. Buy that Pegasus yesterday unless there is something else similar. That's my un-educated opinion.

Here's a reddit where a guy has one of those Pedrone amps (Brazilian). I don't speak Portuguese but perhaps some good info here.


Here's a great walkthrough of the Pegasus amp.

That pegasus is the one I'm interested
There are other people who make these (1 channel plexi/cleanish + JCM800 channel 2) and prices are similar. But yeah 1000+ USD for the Origin is too much. Even at 800 euros or something it is too much, I think

 

[scozz]

The Pegasus sounds good, but both of the Marshalls in the video sound fuller to me, with more bite, and they have a kind of bloom to them,…. at least to my ears.

 

[qautomat]

i'm in search of limits of lovely Ori50
trying to get sweden death metal tone

 

[niazmet]

Btw can someone help me achieve this tone below? It's been quite difficult. "best" case scenario it's only double tracked with some delay going through the Friedman JJ

any help with getting that tone without a Friedman?

 

[What?]

any help with getting that tone without a Friedman?

What are you playing through now? I hear fairly low dynamic range, lack of cutting upper mids of typical Marshall, leaning more toward low mids. Sounds like clipping diodes in the circuit. I know jack nothing about Friedman amps. Depending on what you are playing through now, maybe you just need a pedal.

 

[niazmet]

What are you playing through now? I hear fairly low dynamic range, lack of cutting upper mids of typical Marshall, leaning more toward low mids. Sounds like clipping diodes in the circuit. I know jack nothing about Friedman amps. Depending on what you are playing through now, maybe you just need a pedal.

spent the last couple of days trying to get that tone on a DSL 20
I ordered custom speakers but they won't arrive until next week. However I have a feeling it's not the speaker (despite being an improvement to the one I'm using). It's not about gain only. The only thing I can think of doing is boosting with a SD1 but similar overdrives (OD-3, dumble-like and TS clone) didn't help much.
Maybe it's compression + EQ + multiband compressor?
I hear two compressors fighting each other. I assume it's the amp design or simply an eq in the fx loop fighting the frequencies at one stage like in the post pre amp.

Btw I've tried at last 7 high gain pre amp pedals the only that can get fairly close in the higher frequencies it is the bogner ecstazy (the red) but that pedal is awful in my opinion.

 

[svinyard]

I bet you could get close to that tone with a TS/SD1 on the DSL. The DSL is kind of meant for that sorta tone I believe. That tone isn’t ULTRA tight either like some things where the amp has to be very tight as well. So I bet you can get there with the DSL.

You need to be more specific about your signal chain.

What guitar and pickup, pedal, is it DSL20 10” combo or is it a head into which cab and which speakers?

If you run that DSL20 into a nice closed back cab with decent size with two V30 speakers and a boost pedal…it’ll be close I bet. There is a lot of gain available on the DSL but in the combos (and depending on the room) the gain on the low frequencies mushes out so you cant use it all. BUT on a nice external cab with V30 speakers (heavy ass 50oz magnets), it really improves the bass response and handling and gives you that metal low grind along with the bass stability…it opens up so much more of the gain to be usable. (I’d still knock down the bass tho…let the bass guitar handle that, you aren’t a one man band/tone).

Obviously the guitar makes a difference. You aren’t gonna get this on a Strat.

Fwiw I have the DSL40CR combo and a separate Marshall cab. I went through 6 different speakers testing things out. That combo on the red channel OD2 with v30 is pretty dark and metal and bassy. It’s pretty damn incredible into an external cab tho. The v30s REAAALY kickass for certain metal type of stuff.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

thanks!
but with all due respect instead of walking through "remove cap here, install X here" he says "this guy here" and spend 30 minutes talking about things that are more about messing up your brain than helping how to accomplish this mod
Most people who are into electronics are like this. It's virtually impossible for all of them have some organization explaining step by step
I may need to watch this 5 times and write everything down and hopefully get a step by step version of all of this, but Im afraid I'll lose all my desire to play worrying that I would not make the mod as it is supposed to be
There isn't even a list with the components needed.
Sorry I think you really wanted to help but these guys only do great mods they can't teach other people to replicate

He also has the stuff on his website, including a parts list/inventory & what replaces what. If you can do it, great, if not, there are many who can...

Headfirst Amplification – Boutique Tube Amps

headfirstamplification.com

he even has the original schematic & his hand drawn new mod'd schem...

Anyway, if you are looking into doing this yourself, or hiring someone, the more info you have available to you &/or tech, the better...

 

[niazmet]

He also has the stuff on his website, including a parts list/inventory & what replaces what. If you can do it, great, if not, there are many who can...

Headfirst Amplification – Boutique Tube Amps

headfirstamplification.com

he even has the original schematic & his hand drawn new mod'd schem...

Anyway, if you are looking into doing this yourself, or hiring someone, the more info you have available to you &/or tech, the better...

There are no part lists for that mod, at least yet...
As of right now I don't think it's doable to be honest.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

There are no part lists for that mod, at least yet...
As of right now I don't think it's doable to be honest.

>> Parts List <<

the preamp to the Ori 20 is identical to the Ori 50...

 

[Dogs of Doom]

below where that is, there's these pages of stuff:

screencap:

 

[niazmet]

I bet you could get close to that tone with a TS/SD1 on the DSL. The DSL is kind of meant for that sorta tone I believe. That tone isn’t ULTRA tight either like some things where the amp has to be very tight as well. So I bet you can get there with the DSL.

You need to be more specific about your signal chain.

What guitar and pickup, pedal, is it DSL20 10” combo or is it a head into which cab and which speakers?

If you run that DSL20 into a nice closed back cab with decent size with two V30 speakers and a boost pedal…it’ll be close I bet. There is a lot of gain available on the DSL but in the combos (and depending on the room) the gain on the low frequencies mushes out so you cant use it all. BUT on a nice external cab with V30 speakers (heavy ass 50oz magnets), it really improves the bass response and handling and gives you that metal low grind along with the bass stability…it opens up so much more of the gain to be usable. (I’d still knock down the bass tho…let the bass guitar handle that, you aren’t a one man band/tone).

Obviously the guitar makes a difference. You aren’t gonna get this on a Strat.

Fwiw I have the DSL40CR combo and a separate Marshall cab. I went through 6 different speakers testing things out. That combo on the red channel OD2 with v30 is pretty dark and metal and bassy. It’s pretty damn incredible into an external cab tho. The v30s REAAALY kickass for certain metal type of stuff.

It's a strat body and custom pickup designed to be similar to SD hot rails (it's really custom the guy makes one by one and he spend two days between wiring it and testing it. It's much better than SD to be honest and it cost the exact same price as a SD hot rails). I hate V30 so I use a custom greenback. I'm expecting a custom creeamback next week. cabinet is a closed back 1x12. As of right now the combination of the greenback "clone" and DSL is a brutal bass tone. Too much bass in my opinion. I gotta try the SD-1 pedal I think that would darken the tone and compress a bit

 

[niazmet]

below where that is, there's these pages of stuff:

screencap:
View attachment 136846

Thanks. The instruction pdf is a good place to start, I didn't see it.
However the above pdf linked is the part list of the Plexi mod not the "metal" mod

 

[What?]

spent the last couple of days trying to get that tone on a DSL 20
I ordered custom speakers but they won't arrive until next week. However I have a feeling it's not the speaker (despite being an improvement to the one I'm using). It's not about gain only. The only thing I can think of doing is boosting with a SD1 but similar overdrives (OD-3, dumble-like and TS clone) didn't help much.
Maybe it's compression + EQ + multiband compressor?
I hear two compressors fighting each other. I assume it's the amp design or simply an eq in the fx loop fighting the frequencies at one stage like in the post pre amp.

Btw I've tried at last 7 high gain pre amp pedals the only that can get fairly close in the higher frequencies it is the bogner ecstazy (the red) but that pedal is awful in my opinion.

I think you would have better luck using an eq to push the mid mids (not upper mids or lowest mids) into a pedal. I hear those mids diode clipping, which is kind of a falsely loose sound. The bass isn't actually loose. And the highs are warm, so you'll probably need some gentle rolloff there. But I think it's mostly about getting those mids clipping through diodes. I might tinker with it a bit tomorrow night. I have an eq2 that I could use to push a pedal to see what it does.

 

[What?]

This guy pretty well nailed it. BB Preamp is what you're looking for.





I don't know if it's the same where you are, but a Caline Orange Burst is like $40 here.

 

[niazmet]

This guy pretty well nailed it. BB Preamp is what you're looking for.

"Creamback 75's "
I knew it. Lol. At least I did the right thing but ordering a creamback "clone" 10 days ago
If everything goes wrong I'll be a youtuber

 

[Dogs of Doom]

Thanks. The instruction pdf is a good place to start, I didn't see it.
However the above pdf linked is the part list of the Plexi mod not the "metal" mod

I'm not 100% positive, but, I think you need to do the plexi-mod 1st, then the Jose mod's are simple add-ons...

For some reason, when they designed the pre-amp on the Ori series, they did everything backwards. The plexi-mod reroutes everything to normal Marshall standard routing.

 

[niazmet]

I'm not 100% positive, but, I think you need to do the plexi-mod 1st, then the Jose mod's are simple add-ons...

For some reason, when they designed the pre-amp on the Ori series, they did everything backwards. The plexi-mod reroutes everything to normal Marshall standard routing.

Interesting
Thanks all for the help. With all the parts listed it's easier now. However I think I'll skip the origin 50H. too expensive, I could save a little more and buy a JVM later.

 

[qautomat]

in battle between Origin and Plexi-clone wins goes to JVM