Marshall/Celestion G12 Vintage Differences?

[Troy T. Blues]

Marshall Vintage G12 is a 65 watt speaker. It has a very large magnet, very different that the Vintage 30. If you have an opportunity do a search in the forum, I have a post here on it, I also have sound clips of one stack with the Marshall Vintage G12 against a stack loaded with Vintage 30's. Both are amazing but my go stack is loaded with these Marshall Vintage G12's.

Vintage 30's = 60 Wattts
Marshall Vintage by Celestion = 65 watts

Dr. Decibel at Celestion is great at responding to emails, Dr Decibel Archive - Celestion. Thats how I learned about my mine, if you need additional information he can most certainly help. Also, if @BygoneTones see this he can help, another amazing resource on all things Celestion.

Bygone Tones - Vintage Guitar Speakers & Cabinets

Thank you @Ray Baker!

 

[Troy T. Blues]

I just played through the 1936 with the older Marshall V30’s. This time I played loud and from a distance. There is no question on how great these speakers sound! Much better than the Chinese V30’s that were in there before. I’ve decided to not compare the cabs anymore as well, and just enjoy them. My Les Paul and Vintage Modern through those speakers sounded glorious!

 

[Biff Maloy]

Don't the G12 Vintage sound more balanced to you? I say balanced for lack of better term. More settled? It has the flavor of a Vintage 30 and i don't dislike those but I'd never tried a G12 Vintage until i got a 2536A 2x12 for my 2525H. Any 4x12 I've had over the years was either greenback 25 or T75 loaded. No V cabs. I'd run my 2525H either into 25 watt greenbacks or V30s prior but when i got the 2x12 that goes with it and has those G12 Vintage in it it was an instant "That's It. I'm Done With This Amp"

I have a 2061CX that i run speakers through trying things. Every now and then I'd look for some G12s for sale but just couldn't snag a pair. I bought the cab just to get and try them.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Don't the G12 Vintage sound more balanced to you? I say balanced for lack of better term. More settled? It has the flavor of a Vintage 30 and i don't dislike those but I'd never tried a G12 Vintage until i got a 2536A 2x12 for my 2525H. Any 4x12 I've had over the years was either greenback 25 or T75 loaded. No V cabs. I'd run my 2525H either into 25 watt greenbacks or V30s prior but when i got the 2x12 that goes with it and has those G12 Vintage in it it was an instant "That's It. I'm Done With This Amp"

I have a 2061CX that i run speakers through trying things. Every now and then I'd look for some G12s for sale but just couldn't snag a pair. I bought the cab just to get and try them.

Agreed.

 

[spacerocker]

I just played through the 1936 with the older Marshall V30’s. This time I played loud and from a distance. There is no question on how great these speakers sound! Much better than the Chinese V30’s that were in there before. I’ve decided to not compare the cabs anymore as well, and just enjoy them. My Les Paul and Vintage Modern through those speakers sounded glorious!

So - let's get this straight - you took the Marshall G12 Vintage speakers out of your 1936V cab, and put them into your standard 1936 cab - that previously had Marshall G12 Vintage speakers that you suspected might be different -and suddenly it sounded great?

But where does the "Chinese C30" that you mention come in? If both the Marshall G12 Vintage speakers had "Marshall" branding rather than "Celestion V30" then they would have both been made in the UK...

Just for the record, I have a 1936 cab that has one Marshall G12 Vintage speaker, and one Chinese Celsetion V30. Using the different inputs, I can select one speaker at a time. The difference between the two speakers is subtle - they both have the "V30 sound" - but whilst the Marshall G12 Vintage is slightly warmer sounding, the Chinese V30 is clearer and more articulate. Overall I prefer the sound of the Chinese V30. My son (who is a very experienced guitarist) also preferred the Chinese speaker in a blind test - although he did say both sounded good!

 

[Troy T. Blues]

So - let's get this straight - you took the Marshall G12 Vintage speakers out of your 1936V cab, and put them into your standard 1936 cab - that previously had Marshall G12 Vintage speakers that you suspected might be different -and suddenly it sounded great?

But where does the "Chinese C30" that you mention come in? If both the Marshall G12 Vintage speakers had "Marshall" branding rather than "Celestion V30" then they would have both been made in the UK...

Just for the record, I have a 1936 cab that has one Marshall G12 Vintage speaker, and one Chinese Celsetion V30. Using the different inputs, I can select one speaker at a time. The difference between the two speakers is subtle - they both have the "V30 sound" - but whilst the Marshall G12 Vintage is slightly warmer sounding, the Chinese V30 is clearer and more articulate. Overall I prefer the sound of the Chinese V30. My son (who is a very experienced guitarist) also preferred the Chinese speaker in a blind test - although he did say both sounded good!

I'm sorry for the confusion.

I acquired the Marshall G12 Vintage Speakers and installed them in my 1936 cab which formally had Celestion Chinese V30's (I left that part out initially) I compared those to the ones that are in my 1936V cabinet, which were never moved. I just opened up that cab to see if I could find any difference between the two, so the investigation began. I still prefer the sound of the ones in my 1936V to anything else I've heard so far.

After installing the Marshall G12 Vintage in the 1936, I noticed the sound was different than the ones in 1936V cab, yet they are seemingly the same speaker. Come to find out, those speakers in my 1936 are 25 years old. So, who knows at this point. I also had to check both cabs to confirm that they were all plywood.

In conclusion, I don't know exactly why they sound different other than the ones in my 1936 are 20 years older. I decided not to compare the speakers/cabs anymore and just enjoy them for what the are at this point. Either way, I've found that this is still a very nice improvement for me!

 

[spacerocker]

OK - I think I mostly get it now. You are saying that the speakers in your 1936V cab sound better than the ones you put in to your standard 1936 cab. Turns out the speakers in the great sounding 1936V cab are from 2017, whereas the Marshall G12 Vintage you put in the standard cab are 25 years old....So you prefer the newer speakers correct? What is it you prefer about them? Maybe the newer speakers have got better upper mids, whereas the older speakers have had the top end rounded off over time?

What you didn't say is how these two Marshall G12 Vintage types compare with the Celestion V30 (Chinese) that were in your cab before? As I say, I prefer the Chinese speaker to the Marshall G12V. It's not the result i would have wanted (or expected) but there's no denying the additional clarity of the Celestion V30 over the Marshall G12 Vintage (at least in my cab!)

 

[Troy T. Blues]

OK - I think I mostly get it now. You are saying that the speakers in your 1936V cab sound better than the ones you put in to your standard 1936 cab. Turns out the speakers in the great sounding 1936V cab are from 2017, whereas the Marshall G12 Vintage you put in the standard cab are 25 years old....So you prefer the newer speakers correct? What is it you prefer about them? Maybe the newer speakers have got better upper mids, whereas the older speakers have had the top end rounded off over time?

What you didn't say is how these two Marshall G12 Vintage types compare with the Celestion V30 (Chinese) that were in your cab before? As I say, I prefer the Chinese speaker to the Marshall G12V. It's not the result i would have wanted (or expected) but there's no denying the additional clarity of the Celestion V30 over the Marshall G12 Vintage (at least in my cab!)

Correct. I prefer the newer ones which sound brighter (more upper mids), more open, & grindy...perhaps a little louder too?
Yes, the older speakers probably have had the top end rounded off some over time. Don't get me wrong, they still sound great.

Believe it or not, I found the opposite of the Marshall G12 Vintage compared to the Chinese V30. However, I did not do a direct comparison. I should've recorded a before and after, but I didn't. One day soon, I may try that.

 

[spacerocker]

Correct. I prefer the newer ones which sound brighter (more upper mids), more open, & grindy...perhaps a little louder too?
Yes, the older speakers probably have had the top end rounded off some over time. Don't get me wrong, they still sound great.

Believe it or not, I found the opposite of the Marshall G12 Vintage compared to the Chinese V30. However, I did not do a direct comparison. I should've recorded a before and after, but I didn't. One day soon, I may try that.

That's interesting! It makes sense that the "old" speaker should be a little less lively, and a bit more balanced....I'll bet your newer speaker sounds very close to a Chinese V30? (it would be interesting to find out!) As I say, I have a Marshall G12 Vintage and Celestion V30 in the same cab, and the difference is really quite small - but the Chinese speaker just has the edge for me - but, as everyone says - no two speakers sound identical anyway!

 

[Troy T. Blues]

That's interesting! It makes sense that the "old" speaker should be a little less lively, and a bit more balanced....I'll bet your newer speaker sounds very close to a Chinese V30? (it would be interesting to find out!) As I say, I have a Marshall G12 Vintage and Celestion V30 in the same cab, and the difference is really quite small - but the Chinese speaker just has the edge for me - but, as everyone says - no two speakers sound identical anyway!

Since I had the Chinese V30’s (only a year old) in the 1936 before, I had plenty of time to compare them to the newer Marshall G12 Vintage speakers in my 1936V. I have both cabs side by side. No, not at all. That was the whole point of buying these the other G12 Vintage speakers. I was hoping they’d be closer in sound to the ones in the 1936V cab. The Chinese V30’s were darker and muffled sounding.

Could the issue actually be the 1936 cab? That cab is all plywood just like the 1936V though. Both the Chinese V30’s and the Marshall G12’s sound darker. To me, the Chinese V30’s a little worse. Opposite of what you found. The only way to truly tell is to swap the G12 speakers in the 1936V cab. Apparently, that’s what I may have to do to figure this out.

 

[spacerocker]

Since I had the Chinese V30’s (only a year old) in the 1936 before, I had plenty of time to compare them to the newer Marshall G12 Vintage speakers in my 1936V. I have both cabs side by side. No, not at all. That was the whole point of buying these the other G12 Vintage speakers. I was hoping they’d be closer in sound to the ones in the 1936V cab. The Chinese V30’s were darker and muffled sounding.

Could the issue actually be the 1936 cab? That cab is all plywood just like the 1936V though. Both the Chinese V30’s and the Marshall G12’s sound darker. To me, the Chinese V30’s a little worse. Opposite of what you found. The only way to truly tell is to swap the G12 speakers in the 1936V cab. Apparently, that’s what I may have to do to figure this out.

That is so strange....people almost always say that the Chinese V30s are brighter than the UK made versions, and some prefer the "warmth" of the UK made speakers. This clip sums up the difference really well. The Chinese V30 is supposedly at 1:24 and the UK made one follows it....the difference in the sound of the two confirms my findings, although in my cab the difference is less pronounced than demonstrated in this clip. Neither of the V30s are "Marshall branded". I found the K100 to be the worst sounding of all these speakers....



Seems unlikely that the cause is the cabs (especially as both are plywood) in your case - but what else can it be? I think people make too much of the plywood Vs MDF thing...I have seen posts by some people who have replaced an MDF back with a plywood one - and found that it sounds worse! MDF/particle board is widely used in Hi-Fi speakers (rather than solid/laminated wood) exactly because it doesn't have a gain structure, and reduces resonances....

Let us know if you solve the mystery!

 

[Troy T. Blues]

That is so strange....people almost always say that the Chinese V30s are brighter than the UK made versions, and some prefer the "warmth" of the UK made speakers. This clip sums up the difference really well. The Chinese V30 is supposedly at 1:24 and the UK made one follows it....the difference in the sound of the two confirms my findings, although in my cab the difference is less pronounced than demonstrated in this clip. Neither of the V30s are "Marshall branded". I found the K100 to be the worst sounding of all these speakers....



Seems unlikely that the cause is the cabs (especially as both are plywood) in your case - but what else can it be? I think people make too much of the plywood Vs MDF thing...I have seen posts by some people who have replaced an MDF back with a plywood one - and found that it sounds worse! MDF/particle board is widely used in Hi-Fi speakers (rather than solid/laminated wood) exactly because it doesn't have a gain structure, and reduces resonances....

Let us know if you solve the mystery!

I hear ya. Yes, exactly! What else could it be? I find it to be very strange as well. I will certainly post what I find when I decide to investigate this mystery any farther. Like I said, right now, I do enjoy the cabs for what they are, and they certainly sound great! Thanks.

 

[vinceB]

Marshall Vintage G12 is a 65 watt speaker. It has a very large magnet, very different than the Vintage 30. If you have an opportunity do a search in the forum, I have a post here on it, I also have sound clips of one stack with the Marshall Vintage G12 against a stack loaded with Vintage 30's. Both are amazing but my go stack is loaded with these Marshall Vintage G12's.

Vintage 30's = 60 Wattts
Marshall Vintage by Celestion = 65 watts

Dr. Decibel at Celestion is great at responding to emails, Dr Decibel Archive - Celestion. Thats how I learned about my mine, if you need additional information he can most certainly help. Also, if @BygoneTones see this he can help, another amazing resource on all things Celestion.

Bygone Tones - Vintage Guitar Speakers & Cabinets

I just swapped some and they physically identical. Same magnet, same coil, and same 444 cone. The only obvious difference was the name.

 

[swsidwilliams13]

It would be a lot of work but swap speakers and that would tell you if it's the cabs or the speakers.Or just swap backs to eliminate that.






From Sid
Oh just swap four speakers out. Like that’s reasonable with someone on a limited budget might as well find a carpenter to build a better cabinet out of birch plywood. Speakers are going to be minimum $500 and then you might not like those either!
this is what I know.

My friend bought a DSL 15c and he didn’t like the sound of the gain channel, I bought the same thing but a head version. I too hated the overly over driven fizzy sound it had. I bought it used and didn’t do my homework and read reviews, but I only spent a little over $200. And still felt hoodwinked.

He said the same thing but had already swapped the stock speaker. I never heard what his sounded like compared with mine but I suspected it sounded to loose and flabby like mine did. That’s what he said it sounded like and I don’t know. Because I never heard it initially. I don’t know what speaker was in it. But he removed changed it to a cannabis Rex. He played it some and wasn’t satisfied still. I don’t know what settings or anything. I told him he might have to do what I did and change some resistors and what not. But, I went over to his house and used his Least expensive guitar, which was an Epiphone les Paul(which I think are great btw but that’s a whole different discussion). Plugged straight in and went to amp put All the eq knobs at 12 or slightly above and the gain began to adjust set the volume about 9 and increased a little at a time starting at 12 o’clock. I was able to push it more loud enough to hang with his drums. And kept moving it up. It f’ing rocked, it wasn’t fizzy, or flabby and he agreed, but I will say this my taste in sound has changed over the past decade as far as sound has become more mid tight sounding as I’ve learned to get used to Marshall. His sounded awesome to me. Mid range heavy crunch and slightly gainier, like the cult electric album sound. Or early metal. Which is what I kept playing while he hooked up his new setup. Dsl 20 head with 2x12 cabinet and began putting all these pedals to it. He had one stock speaker in the Marshall cabinet which was the MX or MG. He had ended up putting one cannabis Rex and leaving a stock 70 80 celestion in. It sounded great when I first plugged straight into it. Then he started adding all these pedals to it nothing major just a gain, tuner, a compressor newer version Boss pedal. By the time he was done the DSL 20 red channel on the head and cabinet started to sound weak and flabby playing power chords. Compared to the combo 15. I just kept playing the same lick, Over and over, while he kept tweaking his setup. By the time he added all that stuff and attenuators through he began to solo over my random chord progressions. When he went to play some power chord progressions, setup for heavy lead riffs like I did for him. His setup through the DSL 20 head sounded weaker and flabbier than me playing through the DSL15c, cannabis Rex only.

I told him I don’t know what your talking about and I don’t know what it sounded like before. But this little combo sounds great and he agreed.
So, yeah I agree a speaker change could be the way to go, but even though I changed out a few resistors and my head version of what he has could have been a speaker change. But it was a hell of lot cheaper to add a resistor and change the value of a couple capacitors. It’s now tight and rockin like i expected it to sound. Plus, the gain issue has caused the amp to be very affordable. My cabinet is the weak link in my setup. I think the cabinet is fine but the speakers are crap. My DSL 50 sounds great through it. To me. And now my DSL 15 head does too. It just doesn’t have reverb and the crunch button. The gain is a little higher but it’s still reasonable high and I want to change speakers but that another $500. Just food for thought.
So, I don’t know what Marshall is doing but they are all over the place when it comes to sound. Ppl want that old school which too me is a jcm 800 or jcm 900. It’s all about frequency response and sensitivity with guitar speakers. And I don’t know which sounds better with what. When it comes to a variety of amps heads and speaker combinations.

But I know this. His DSL 15 combo with a ony a speaker change from stock to an eminence cannabis Rex 12” speaker made me wonder what the hell he complaining a about, made me want the same 4 exact same speakers,

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Yup, I know

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

At Sid, All I was suggesting was taking the speakers out of the cab they are in and putting them in the other to see if its the cab or the speakers. All needed is a screw driver and some elbow grease.

 

[javierfranki]

your 1936V is made of MdF,and your standard 1936 is made os (best...?) Plywood.
That´s made a difference in sound,sometimes in a good or bad way.After a time earing the MDF cabinet,for you is THE SOUND,and the plywood cabinet is simply...different.

In the discution vintage marshall g12 vs celestion v30,thats two differents speakers.The labelled marshall G12 are the very first created celestion v30,designed for the jubilee 25th years,the marshall g12 is like a...."true original v30"

 

[Toraboramusic]

1936V speakers

And here is the other one in question:

Great speakers the G12 70w Vintage. Made in the UK too. IMO superior to the G12 V30 rated at 60w now made in China

 

[Toraboramusic]

It’s my understanding that the G12 Vintage and the V30 are not the same speakers. I’m not sure how they differ, Celestion doesn’t even list the specs on their site. It has been suggested that the G12 Vintage is made specially for Marshall to their specs and sounds different than a V30.

Spot on!! Nobody else here seems to get that!

 

[Chris-in-LA]

your 1936V is made of MdF,and your standard 1936 is made os (best...?) Plywood.
That´s made a difference in sound,sometimes in a good or bad way.After a time earing the MDF cabinet,for you is THE SOUND,and the plywood cabinet is simply...different.

In the discution vintage marshall g12 vs celestion v30,thats two differents speakers.The labelled marshall G12 are the very first created celestion v30,designed for the jubilee 25th years,the marshall g12 is like a...."true original v30"

Current 1936v cabs are plywood