Marshall/Celestion G12 Vintage Differences?

[Point 2 Point]

Marshall Vintage G12 is a 65 watt speaker. It has a very large magnet, very different than the Vintage 30. If you have an opportunity do a search in the forum, I have a post here on it, I also have sound clips of one stack with the Marshall Vintage G12 against a stack loaded with Vintage 30's. Both are amazing but my go stack is loaded with these Marshall Vintage G12's.

Vintage 30's = 60 Wattts
Marshall Vintage by Celestion = 65 watts

Dr. Decibel at Celestion is great at responding to emails, Dr Decibel Archive - Celestion. Thats how I learned about my mine, if you need additional information he can most certainly help. Also, if @BygoneTones see this he can help, another amazing resource on all things Celestion.

Bygone Tones - Vintage Guitar Speakers & Cabinets

Link please

 

[vinceB]

Reading through this post it seems like I should have my two G12s for the 1960AV reconed rather then replaced.

 

[MatFnEhUK]

I recently upgraded from a Harley Benton 412 vintage cab (Chinese v30s) to a 1960av cab. They just so happened to both have 2014 speakers. I managed to a/b the two cabs before selling off the HB, and I really couldn’t tell much of a difference at all. Maybe there was a bit more bottom end/smoother top end to the Marshall speakers but it was really a marginal difference and I’m fairly certain the Marshall cab has seen a lot more use than the HB cab, so it could be that the slight difference is due more to break-in/wear. There really isn’t that much difference between these speakers of the same year imho. Or maybe my ears just aren’t sophisticated enough to hear it (I also don’t hear much of a difference with tube swaps except for v1 - unless of course they’re worn or of different gain values).

 

[yafal]

Very simple, lo tech way of telling the difference (plese don't laugh): take a thick cardboard box and cut a suitable round opening to hold a speaker; remove one speaker from each cab; install one in the cardboard box; play some music through it, whatever you think is fine, and record it with your cell phone; do the same with the other speaker; then, compare the recordings. It'll show the differences.

 

[racerxrated2]

The original Marshall Vintage was 8ohm, had a vent like a 65 on the magnet and was designed to replicate the Alnico Blue/Vox Blue of 1963. I have a pair of Alnico Blues and they have a very similar frequency response to V30s. But in direct comparison the 1963 Blue is far more harmonic laden and rich sounding.
You could only find the vented 1985/86 versions on the Studio 30 combos or Artist 15w combos. In 1987 they lost the vents and went into Jubilee cabs and combos, although the 75 was more common in 412s. They were also put into JCM 800 cabs but the only way to identify them was the 280w badge on back.
In 1990/91 they started using 16 ohm Vintages and lost the 8 ohm-they might exist in the wild as a post 1990 8 ohm vintage but I’ve never seen one. These became more ‘crispy’ sounding with extended highs. The 8 ohm version sounded far better imo and to me like a 65 with deeper tighter low end. The 8 ohm version seems very fat/warm while the 16 cuts like a razor but can be too top heavy imo.
I used to own a 2551AV Jube cab long ago and sold it…dumb move…but a few months back scored a 1988 2205 half stack for 1400; and lucked out with the cab as it is a rare 8 ohm Vintage cab.

 

[jspete64]

O

Hello,

I have a Marshall 1936V cabinet which has the Marshall branded V30's in it and it sounds awesome! I also have what I think/thought were the same speakers, but could they be different? They are currently in my standard 1936 cab (which is all plywood).

1936V: On the cone it's stamped W14 444. The sticker reads: Celestion, T3897B, G12 Vintage, 16ohm, Made in UK and in the right hand corner LC28

On the other Marshall G12 Vintage speakers in question: 444 smudged code on the cone, and on the rim: 16 ohms (very big) and also: 23GGT3897/03.

The big magnet stickers look identical: G12, 16 ohm, Vintage by Celestion, Ipswitch...

I'm hoping someone can help. The speakers in the 1936V sound better to me. At first I thought it was because of my standard 1936 cab possibly being inferior to the 1936V, but it does not have MDF, it's all ply. This is what I've found after further investigation.

I'll try to post some pics asap. Any help would be great. Thanks!

I have a few sets of G12 Vintages from different eras….1987…1997..2003..and 2019’s….Conventional wisdom claims older is better,right?….but….I prefer my 2003’s to all of them….however, they are all in the same ballpark….yours are from July of 97(GG)….and November of 2017(LC)….No two speakers sound EXACTLY the same,and your older ones are obviously broken in more…..My 87’s sound a bit smoother,but more mid focused than the others….my 2003’s sound better all around….You have two sets of great speakers…mix them up..put one 17 and 97 in each cab….

 

[Troy T. Blues]

O

I have a few sets of G12 Vintages from different eras….1987…1997..2003..and 2019’s….Conventional wisdom claims older is better,right?….but….I prefer my 2003’s to all of them….however, they are all in the same ballpark….yours are from July of 97(GG)….and November of 2017(LC)….No two speakers sound EXACTLY the same,and your older ones are obviously broken in more…..My 87’s sound a bit smoother,but more mid focused than the others….my 2003’s sound better all around….You have two sets of great speakers…mix them up..put one 17 and 97 in each cab….

That's actually a really good idea!

 

[Toraboramusic]

Hello,

I have a Marshall 1936V cabinet which has the Marshall branded V30's in it and it sounds awesome! I also have what I think/thought were the same speakers, but could they be different? They are currently in my standard 1936 cab (which is all plywood).

1936V: On the cone it's stamped W14 444. The sticker reads: Celestion, T3897B, G12 Vintage, 16ohm, Made in UK and in the right hand corner LC28

On the other Marshall G12 Vintage speakers in question: 444 smudged code on the cone, and on the rim: 16 ohms (very big) and also: 23GGT3897/03.

The big magnet stickers look identical: G12, 16 ohm, Vintage by Celestion, Ipswitch...

I'm hoping someone can help. The speakers in the 1936V sound better to me. At first I thought it was because of my standard 1936 cab possibly being inferior to the 1936V, but it does not have MDF, it's all ply. This is what I've found after further investigation.

I'll try to post some pics asap. Any help would be great. Thanks!

Does it actually state in the lower half of the sticker "Vintage 30?" If not, you're describing what sounds like the G12 Marshall Vintage 'by Celestion' 70w speaker. Similar but different.

 

[RadioAD5GB]

Wow, this is an old thread yet it has recent activity so I'll toss my hat in thee ring for a beating - LOL. I've got an old 4x12 1960B cab that is loaded with "Marshall" branded speakers. I'm not sure if i remember if they carry a G12-branding or not. I bought it back in 1982 in Oklahoma - pretty beat up but #*$@ if itt wasn't the sweetest sound thing I ever heard. Came with the road band's stencil still on the cover. I was told then that they were "Pre-Rola Celestion Greenbacks" when I opened up the cab for someone that knew a lot more about Marshall history than I do. Since they don't carry any sort of Celestion-type designation, I had nothing to argue on. They might be bult by Fane for all I know. I do know this-- even after all these years that cab can go from Clapton, to AC/DC to The Priest and on to Sabbath and Dio with just minor tweaks to treble, presence and resonance controls ( using a homebuilt JCM800 50W MV circuit with lots of extra gadgets - but no extra gain stages) I don't think I could sell it for 20x what I paid for it... Pure metal honey!

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Does it actually state in the lower half of the sticker "Vintage 30?" If not, you're describing what sounds like the G12 Marshall Vintage 'by Celestion' 70w speaker. Similar but different.

G12 Marshall Vintage by Celestion for sure.

 

[GIBSON67]

Wow, this is an old thread yet it has recent activity so I'll toss my hat in thee ring for a beating - LOL. I've got an old 4x12 1960B cab that is loaded with "Marshall" branded speakers. I'm not sure if i remember if they carry a G12-branding or not. I bought it back in 1982 in Oklahoma - pretty beat up but #*$@ if itt wasn't the sweetest sound thing I ever heard. Came with the road band's stencil still on the cover. I was told then that they were "Pre-Rola Celestion Greenbacks" when I opened up the cab for someone that knew a lot more about Marshall history than I do. Since they don't carry any sort of Celestion-type designation, I had nothing to argue on. They might be bult by Fane for all I know. I do know this-- even after all these years that cab can go from Clapton, to AC/DC to The Priest and on to Sabbath and Dio with just minor tweaks to treble, presence and resonance controls ( using a homebuilt JCM800 50W MV circuit with lots of extra gadgets - but no extra gain stages) I don't think I could sell it for 20x what I paid for it... Pure metal honey!

Give us a pic and we'll let you know exactly what you have! But start a new thread...

 

[Deftone]

we're talking about these....?

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

Wow, this is an old thread yet it has recent activity so I'll toss my hat in thee ring for a beating - LOL. I've got an old 4x12 1960B cab that is loaded with "Marshall" branded speakers. I'm not sure if i remember if they carry a G12-branding or not. I bought it back in 1982 in Oklahoma - pretty beat up but #*$@ if itt wasn't the sweetest sound thing I ever heard. Came with the road band's stencil still on the cover. I was told then that they were "Pre-Rola Celestion Greenbacks" when I opened up the cab for someone that knew a lot more about Marshall history than I do. Since they don't carry any sort of Celestion-type designation, I had nothing to argue on. They might be bult by Fane for all I know. I do know this-- even after all these years that cab can go from Clapton, to AC/DC to The Priest and on to Sabbath and Dio with just minor tweaks to treble, presence and resonance controls ( using a homebuilt JCM800 50W MV circuit with lots of extra gadgets - but no extra gain stages) I don't think I could sell it for 20x what I paid for it... Pure metal honey!

Marshall put their own Marshall logo stickers on celestion speakers sometimes over the years. A Marshall sticker on the G12-65 was fairly common during the early 80's/late 70's.

 

[abkeller1]

Marshall Vintage G12 is a 65 watt speaker. It has a very large magnet, very different than the Vintage 30. If you have an opportunity do a search in the forum, I have a post here on it, I also have sound clips of one stack with the Marshall Vintage G12 against a stack loaded with Vintage 30's. Both are amazing but my go stack is loaded with these Marshall Vintage G12's.

Vintage 30's = 60 Wattts
Marshall Vintage by Celestion = 65 watts

Dr. Decibel at Celestion is great at responding to emails, Dr Decibel Archive - Celestion. Thats how I learned about my mine, if you need additional information he can most certainly help. Also, if @BygoneTones see this he can help, another amazing resource on all things Celestion.

Bygone Tones - Vintage Guitar Speakers & Cabinets

the Marshall Vintage speakers are 70watt not 65watt.

 

[abkeller1]

The Chinese ones sound brittle and harsh very naisely. The Marshall Vintage are amazing. No comparison.

 

[ken Tucky]

Wow, this is an old thread yet it has recent activity so I'll toss my hat in thee ring for a beating - LOL. I've got an old 4x12 1960B cab that is loaded with "Marshall" branded speakers. I'm not sure if i remember if they carry a G12-branding or not. I bought it back in 1982 in Oklahoma - pretty beat up but #*$@ if itt wasn't the sweetest sound thing I ever heard. Came with the road band's stencil still on the cover. I was told then that they were "Pre-Rola Celestion Greenbacks" when I opened up the cab for someone that knew a lot more about Marshall history than I do. Since they don't carry any sort of Celestion-type designation, I had nothing to argue on. They might be bult by Fane for all I know. I do know this-- even after all these years that cab can go from Clapton, to AC/DC to The Priest and on to Sabbath and Dio with just minor tweaks to treble, presence and resonance controls ( using a homebuilt JCM800 50W MV circuit with lots of extra gadgets - but no extra gain stages) I don't think I could sell it for 20x what I paid for it... Pure metal honey!

It is also possible your cab may have been loaded with Marshall branded G12-65 speakers.

 

[Ray Baker]

the Marshall Vintage speakers are 70watt not 65watt.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll make the correction.

 

[67mike]

The Chinese ones sound brittle and harsh very naisely. The Marshall Vintage are amazing. No comparison.

Hmmm, going to say BS.

I have chinese V30s in my Orange 212 and they absolutely kick fricken arse!

 

[headcrash]

I had the opportunity to compare a few years old (2018-ish) Harley Benton 412 cab, loaded with Chinese V30s, a Mesa Recto 2x12, and my Marshall G12 Vintage loaded cab.
All sounded very good, none sounded bad, and they sounded quite similar, just a little different, with the Marshall G12 Vintage being the most different. It has more upper treble and thus emphasizes what I call "sizzle" of higain sounds a little, more than the other two. Plus it appears to have a little less upper mid spike, or the richer treble content masks it for the human ear.

The Chinese V30 and Mesa's OEM Made in UK version sounded very similar, wheras the Mesa seemed just a little less harsh or grainy in the upper mids.

So, in my experience I cannot confirm what many describe as the Chinese V30s being utter crap. Plus, many high priced cabs have 'em in 'em: Diezel, Soldano, Friedman, ENGL, Bogner,...

In my opinion, the greatest drawback of the V30s is, that a speaker, which was designed for vintage rock sounds, has such a HUGE standing in higain metal. It took ma almost decades to realize this: why would one use a speaker, which gets into compression pretty fast, starts to smear everything (especially bass!) for fast and tight riffing? Especially when using higain amps that have plenty compression already? I recently came to the conclusion, that a speaker like the Celestion Classic Lead 80 works better for me, because it does not compress. Plus, since now everybody and his dog uses V30s, a Classic Lead just sounds a little different

 

[Ufoscorpion]

I had the opportunity to compare a few years old (2018-ish) Harley Benton 412 cab, loaded with Chinese V30s, a Mesa Recto 2x12, and my Marshall G12 Vintage loaded cab.
All sounded very good, none sounded bad, and they sounded quite similar, just a little different, with the Marshall G12 Vintage being the most different. It has more upper treble and thus emphasizes what I call "sizzle" of higain sounds a little, more than the other two. Plus it appears to have a little less upper mid spike, or the richer treble content masks it for the human ear.

The Chinese V30 and Mesa's OEM Made in UK version sounded very similar, wheras the Mesa seemed just a little less harsh or grainy in the upper mids.

So, in my experience I cannot confirm what many describe as the Chinese V30s being utter crap. Plus, many high priced cabs have 'em in 'em: Diezel, Soldano, Friedman, ENGL, Bogner,...

In my opinion, the greatest drawback of the V30s is, that a speaker, which was designed for vintage rock sounds, has such a HUGE standing in higain metal. It took ma almost decades to realize this: why would one use a speaker, which gets into compression pretty fast, starts to smear everything (especially bass!) for fast and tight riffing? Especially when using higain amps that have plenty compression already? I recently came to the conclusion, that a speaker like the Celestion Classic Lead 80 works better for me, because it does not compress. Plus, since now everybody and his dog uses V30s, a Classic Lead just sounds a little different

I’ve also noticed that different amps sound better with different speakers . The two rigs I play the most these atm are Friedman runt 50 into oversized Chinese v30 loaded 4x12 and Origin 50 into pulsonic g12h 30 loaded 2x12 . Both rigs sound fantastic to my ear , different obviously but yep , different . But if I swap the cabs over on both amps they sound good but not fantastic anymore . I’m not even going to try to explain the difference’s but it’s just how it works with my ears . Now I’ve also got a 2x12 cab loaded with a pair of 1979 Marshall stickered g1280’s and this cab sounds really good with everything and doesn’t seem to colour an amp at all so I get where you’re coming from with the lead 80’s .