Marshall DSL 40 vs Marshall Origin 20 Combo

[julian26]

I haven't built a JohnH. I think most people have built them from scratch, but at least one person is building them for sale and maybe making kits available. Pop into the JohnH attenuator thread, and ask there.

If you're looking to have a good range of attenuation from tv volume to just a little off the top, I would definitely skip all the resistive attenuators.

Ok thank you for ur Help, appreciate it

 

[julian26]

@julian26

To The Forum

As said above me, the Origin, DSL, can both get you extremely close.
Good luck on your tone hunt.

Cheers
Mitch

The more I think about it and read on forums, the more the Origin seems like the better buy for home use and value for money, I need to get myself to Derringers our version of guitar center in Australia and try Them all

 

[Aahzz]

The more I think about it and read on forums, the more the Origin seems like the better buy for home use and value for money, I need to get myself to Derringers our version of guitar center in Australia and try Them all

I just picked up an Origin 50C last week, and I am extremely happy with it - I definitely prefer it to the DSL40CR I used to own, and I was fond of that amp. Low power mode, crank the master, and control volume with the gain knob - yeah, it's loud, but not so loud it annoys Mrs Aahzz, which is key . Takes pedals extremely well, and also has the foot switchable gain boost. It responds very well to picking dynamics. I haven't nailed an AC/DC tone, but my only guitar at the moment is an HH Strat, so I'm not going to get all the way there with that.

 

[Sir Don]

The more I think about it and read on forums, the more the Origin seems like the better buy for home use and value for money, I need to get myself to Derringers our version of guitar center in Australia and try Them all

Ah yes, Derringers, I reckon Peter Vitek bought his first house with the money from my buying habits.

 

[julian26]

I just picked up an Origin 50C last week, and I am extremely happy with it - I definitely prefer it to the DSL40CR I used to own, and I was fond of that amp. Low power mode, crank the master, and control volume with the gain knob - yeah, it's loud, but not so loud it annoys Mrs Aahzz, which is key . Takes pedals extremely well, and also has the foot switchable gain boost. It responds very well to picking dynamics. I haven't nailed an AC/DC tone, but my only guitar at the moment is an HH Strat, so I'm not going to get all the way there with that.

I'm actually thinking about the 20c and putting a 12 inch speaker in it maby, obviously again I need to try the 20 ,50 in combo and head mode and the sv20 and see what I think.

 

[svinyard]

I'm actually thinking about the 20c and putting a 12 inch speaker in it maby, obviously again I need to try the 20 ,50 in combo and head mode and the sv20 and see what I think.

My sv20 head is on the way still BUT I just picked a kickass Marshall 1965a for a few hundred bucks...thanks to some timely pro advice . So I plugged my DSL40CR into it and...damn it sounds nice through those old speakers (has two original speakers and two greenbacks). The bass is ENTIRELY tamed and it's just Marshall mids for days with no screetchy/piercing highs...but the highs still get some breakup (good thing), they don't sound like amplified mellow acoustic highs like some speakers did. I play ACDC stuff only on the green channel with gain between 6 and 10. The Classic Crunch channel (based loosely on a JCM800 per Marshall handbook) is too gainy for it imo.

Morale of the story...the combo's are cool and I like the package but I'd also try out a DSL20 head or Origin 50 head while you are at it. It's been enlightening play the same DSL amp with 5 different speakers (no the Creamback does not sound like a Greenback)...but also cab options. You can find nice cabs used depending on your area. You'd want something with a greenback or very similar. The minute I installed a Greenback into DSL (which is under-watted for DSL40 entirely)...my buddy and I were like..."Oh THAT's THE ONE". And that was after swapping 4 other speakers (V-type, Creamback, V30, Creamback H).

So food for thought, maybe you find a cab you like and then a head that works.

 

[december]

Origin doesn't have a high gain channel. What's the point of a tube amp without a gain channel?
DSL40 has a 20W setting. I could get a pretty low volume from a DSL20CR on 20W. It also has a 10W setting. But it didn't sound its best until it was louder than I could be in an apartment.

 

[svinyard]

I could be wrong but if I recall correctly some of the greatest rock and roll tones of all time came from single channel amps without a gain knob.

Origin doesn't have a high gain channel. What's the point of a tube amp without a gain channel?
DSL40 has a 20W setting. I could get a pretty low volume from a DSL20CR on 20W. It also has a 10W setting. But it didn't sound its best until it was louder than I could be in an apartment.

 

[atstrother]

I own a DSL40C and a JCM2000 50 DSL head. Both do a good job of approximating AC/DC tones on the green channel with the crunch button enabled for a strat and not enable for a Les Paul, and both
can do an acceptable Angus lead tone even with a Strat and the OD1 red channel. My Strat has a higher output Rio Grande Muy Grande single coil lead pickup.
The master volume gain is much more practical for my needs. For speakers I like 4 greenbacks>2 vtypes> 1 creamback, . I also prefer the crunch tone of the Dsl40C to the Dsl40cr,
but the dsl40cr is the most versatile. If I only wanted AC/DC I prefer the 1987 to the SV20 as the 20 watters all seem to sound a little smaller than the higher wattage options in a live rock band setting imo.

 

[ronmail65]

DSL40 crushes the Origin 20 (head thru same cabinet or combo vs combo). I’ve had them all - I really wanted the Origin to best my DSL. It wasn’t even close. DSL40 and don’t look back.

 

[svinyard]

I'm actually thinking about the 20c and putting a 12 inch speaker in it maby, obviously again I need to try the 20 ,50 in combo and head mode and the sv20 and see what I think.

This kind of thing is a bit of a "trap" I believe. You buy something imperfect for the job and then have to start dumping money into it that doesn't improve the resell value and it'll still be a very tight, small combo that doesn't nail ACDC tones. I just went through this thankfully I could bail on all the speakers and not eat the cost or have to drill holes in my amp, which already had a 12" speaker.

The 50w Origin Combo is what you want if you have to get a combo. It's only 40lbs with the little 12" speaker in it and not much louder but with more capable guts. Get one of these used ideally, they drop in value pretty quick and aren't a super hot selling amp...so you can get a deal on a used combo, which not as many people like as much as a head too. I thought the 50w combo sounded quite nice for a combo. But it's not nice like a 2x12 or something else with proper greenbacks, G12-65, V30 (Malc liked these later when they came out!) or whatever in it.

You'll figure it out quick when you play them side by side tho. Before going in to do that...find some ACDC settings for each amp on youtube. They'll often surprise you and you'll be ready right off when playing them for certain tones. The pro tip I got (from a SERIOUS PRO...with an SV20 currently), who plays/played stadiums etc was this:

"The SV20’s will be the closest you can get to the ACDC tone at a lower volume. Specially paired up with Celestion G12M‘s or G12H Anniversary’s.

And those guys never run their volume very hot. Usually between 4 to 6, which gets you that “clang” sound.

Also, another AC/DC tip is both Angus and Malcolm (now Stevie) keep the Presence, at least most of the time, on zero."

 

[danteschall]

I know this subject has been done before but would be interested to know people's opinions and experiences with these 2 amps.
I mainly play 70s classic rock and alot of ACDC, mainly ACDC if im honest, im aware no Amp or equipment will ever make me sound like Angus lol.
But wondering which amp would be better suited to this type of sound? Also would like to be able to play at lower volumes,I understand origins need to be cranked even on the .5 watt level they are really loud apparently,
Also ill add I mainly like plugging in and playing but have few overdrive pedals that i use occasionally.

thanks in advance for all responses and opinions, appreciate the help.

There is an excellent video of Angus Gear Breakdown on YouTube. First, these guys are changing their gear all the time. So what he had at that show on that night may NOT be what someone else saw in a video or amp tech discussion.

Angus was using 9 JCM 800s playing through 6 of the other three that were there as backups. He goes directly into the amp, with no pedals.

I am a minimal player. I like to use slap-back delay down in the mix and reverb with the amp at the "edge of breakup" If I need a boost for soloing I turn up the guitar. To me, that is a tone that I just love. Enough sustain from the slapback delay (which gives the sound some depth and width.)

 

[danteschall]

N

This kind of thing is a bit of a "trap" I believe. You buy something imperfect for the job and then have to start dumping money into it that doesn't improve the resell value and it'll still be a very tight, small combo that doesn't nail ACDC tones. I just went through this thankfully I could bail on all the speakers and not eat the cost or have to drill holes in my amp, which already had a 12" speaker.

The 50w Origin Combo is what you want if you have to get a combo. It's only 40lbs with the little 12" speaker in it and not much louder but with more capable guts. Get one of these used ideally, they drop in value pretty quick and aren't a super hot selling amp...so you can get a deal on a used combo, which not as many people like as much as a head too. I thought the 50w combo sounded quite nice for a combo. But it's not nice like a 2x12 or something else with proper greenbacks, G12-65, V30 (Malc liked these later when they came out!) or whatever in it.

You'll figure it out quick when you play them side by side tho. Before going in to do that...find some ACDC settings for each amp on youtube. They'll often surprise you and you'll be ready right off when playing them for certain tones. The pro tip I got (from a SERIOUS PRO...with an SV20 currently), who plays/played stadiums etc was this:

"The SV20’s will be the closest you can get to the ACDC tone at a lower volume. Specially paired up with Celestion G12M‘s or G12H Anniversary’s.

And those guys never run their volume very hot. Usually between 4 to 6, which gets you that “clang” sound.

Also, another AC/DC tip is both Angus and Malcolm (now Stevie) keep the Presence, at least most of the time, on zero."

Nah, if you want a lightweight combo amp you go with the Katana 100w amp I have a DSL 100, 3203 Artist, Origin 50, and other non-marshall amps.

 

[danteschall]

Get a good attenuator or build one. Everything I've heard is that it truly opens up serious tones while at home with healthy eardrums.

here's the main thread. If you can do some basic soldering (they are bigger components) apparently it's not to bad to build...most of the headache is drilling lots of holes. Apparently the cheap off the shelf attenuators kind of suck (like 100-300$) but if you drop 600-900$ you can get something really good. But that's an insane amount of money. These JohnH attenuators will be as good as those expensive ones with less bells and whistles. I think the parts (if you do it yourself) are around 120$ USD.

Simple Attenuators - Design And Testing

Background Passive attenuators are wired between the amp output and the speakers. Their function is to absorb most of the output power of the amp, feeding a smaller amount to the speaker itself. This allows the amp output stage to run at higher power, letting the glorious tone of a good valve...

www.marshallforum.com

Completed Ones:

Completed JohnH Attenuators?

Hey Fine Folks, The Simple Attenuator thread has become so lengthy that it is difficult to ascertain how many successfully completed builds there are of the fantastic @JohnH attenuator design. :thumbs: I'm starting this thread with the intention of showcasing all of these great builds. It is my...

www.marshallforum.com

You can chat with Gene if you have more questions.

Attenuation is needed for the older vintage Marshalls. With anything past the DSL, JVM 2000 amps are designed in such a way that the amp doesn't really open up like the early Plexi's, JCM 800, and JVM 900 do when you crank them. My DSL 100H sounds the same on 2 as it does on 6/7 except extremely loud.

 

[svinyard]

DSL40 crushes the Origin 20 (head thru same cabinet or combo vs combo). I’ve had them all - I really wanted the Origin to best my DSL. It wasn’t even close. DSL40 and don’t look back.

Maybe the 20w Origin sucks, I haven't played it. I think the/our DSL40 crushes the Origin when it comes to stuff past 1985 with gain (assuming no pedals are invovled). But ACDC tones like the OP wanted? Tones that originated from 1959 SuperLeads/JTM50's etc in the 70's? The Origin 50w combo I A/B'd two weeks ago was DEFINITELY better at that. For sure. No contest. Sure it's not as versatile without pedals. It' definitely doesn't have the low volume capability our DSL has....but ACDC tones, it's a step in the right direction from my DSL (which I had 5 different speakers in as well).

Here's the key...you crank the 50w up and get those EL34's firing. To hell with it's whatever preamp tone (which is a little light)...but with the Volume Dimed, the treble low, bass up and the gain (it's own volume control sorta) dialed in for the right distortion. It's better at ACDC for sure. Obviously to run it that loud...and it's loud, you'd want an attenuator for indoor use. If we are just talking about nonsense low volume play...then maybe the DSL is on more equal footing via the green channel.

 

[julian26]

This kind of thing is a bit of a "trap" I believe. You buy something imperfect for the job and then have to start dumping money into it that doesn't improve the resell value and it'll still be a very tight, small combo that doesn't nail ACDC tones. I just went through this thankfully I could bail on all the speakers and not eat the cost or have to drill holes in my amp, which already had a 12" speaker.

The 50w Origin Combo is what you want if you have to get a combo. It's only 40lbs with the little 12" speaker in it and not much louder but with more capable guts. Get one of these used ideally, they drop in value pretty quick and aren't a super hot selling amp...so you can get a deal on a used combo, which not as many people like as much as a head too. I thought the 50w combo sounded quite nice for a combo. But it's not nice like a 2x12 or something else with proper greenbacks, G12-65, V30 (Malc liked these later when they came out!) or whatever in it.

You'll figure it out quick when you play them side by side tho. Before going in to do that...find some ACDC settings for each amp on youtube. They'll often surprise you and you'll be ready right off when playing them for certain tones. The pro tip I got (from a SERIOUS PRO...with an SV20 currently), who plays/played stadiums etc was this:

"The SV20’s will be the closest you can get to the ACDC tone at a lower volume. Specially paired up with Celestion G12M‘s or G12H Anniversary’s.

And those guys never run their volume very hot. Usually between 4 to 6, which gets you that “clang” sound.

Also, another AC/DC tip is both Angus and Malcolm (now Stevie) keep the Presence, at least most of the time, on zero."

Hey man, the Only reason I'm thinking Origin 20 is because it has the .5 watt setting on low power mode, whereas the Origin 50 only goes down to 3 watts. Will be interesting to see how much louder 3 watts is to .5
Im probably going to attempt the John H attenuator build anyway but would be Good to have something I can mess around without before that without having the Police called lol

 

[TheKman76]

I need to get myself to Derringers our version of guitar center in Australia

Clearly you're in S.A. I'd never heard of them until today.

Welcome, by the way. We're gathering quite the Aussie cohort here.

DSL40 crushes the Origin 20 (head thru same cabinet or combo vs combo). I’ve had them all - I really wanted the Origin to best my DSL. It wasn’t even close. DSL40 and don’t look back.

I agree, but I'm not looking to replicate ACDC like the OP is. Origin is a far better starting point for these tones in my view.
Somebody said it already, cleans and modern (less that 40 years old) high-gain is the DSL wheel house. The whole 60's-70's thing is not the DSL strongest sound as the circuit is just *way* too complex to really replicate old amps.

@svinyard has offered up a gold mine of great advise here having experienced the DSL in this context and realised it's not the best place to start. We've discussed mods and circuit tweaks for the DSL in some detail also, which could easily get you into the right place. The problem is that starting with an Origin or SV20 will get you there without tweaking. And likely save you some coin into the bargain.

Good luck!

 

[Cal Nevari]

I know this subject has been done before but would be interested to know people's opinions and experiences with these 2 amps.
I mainly play 70s classic rock and alot of ACDC, mainly ACDC if im honest, im aware no Amp or equipment will ever make me sound like Angus lol.
But wondering which amp would be better suited to this type of sound? Also would like to be able to play at lower volumes,I understand origins need to be cranked even on the .5 watt level they are really loud apparently,
Also ill add I mainly like plugging in and playing but have few overdrive pedals that i use occasionally.

thanks in advance for all responses and opinions, appreciate the help.

Having had the SV20, Origin 20C, and DSL 40CR, the only one left is the 20C. DSL 40Cr was quite versatile but very heavy and really more amp than I needed. The SV20C was way too loud. Even with an attenuator, I couldn't tame it. Origin 20C sounds great at low volumes and takes pedals well. It sounds even better at high volumes, but that's at gig levels. Also have an Origin 20H and 2x12, which sound even better than the combo, but obviously are much bigger and heavier. Haven't tried the Origin 50C, which is probably not much louder but has more clean headroom. All Boss Waza pedals out front: SD-1, BD-2, and DS-1 for drive. Tuner in front, CE-2 chorus and DM-2 delay following. Nothing through the effects loop. Too complicated! YMMV. Good luck!

 

[fitz]

Hey man, the Only reason I'm thinking Origin 20 is because it has the .5 watt setting on low power mode, whereas the Origin 50 only goes down to 3 watts. Will be interesting to see how much louder 3 watts is to .5
Im probably going to attempt the John H attenuator build anyway but would be Good to have something I can mess around without before that without having the Police called lol

To get native overdrive tones from the Origin20, even on low power, it's LOUD.
You can tame the volume even more with 6V6 (14w) power tubes.
The 50 will need to be even louder.

Pedals are you friend with getting low volume drive tones with either of those Origin amps.
The John H is definitely another option - I built one and have tried it with my O20H.
TBH, if my Origin isn't pushing air, I get results from a drive pedal (or 2) that are just as good - IMO.

 

[julian26]

Clearly you're in S.A. I'd never heard of them until today.

Welcome, by the way. We're gathering quite the Aussie cohort here.



I agree, but I'm not looking to replicate ACDC like the OP is. Origin is a far better starting point for these tones in my view.
Somebody said it already, cleans and modern (less that 40 years old) high-gain is the DSL wheel house. The whole 60's-70's thing is not the DSL strongest sound as the circuit is just *way* too complex to really replicate old amps.

@svinyard has offered up a gold mine of great advise here having experienced the DSL in this context and realised it's not the best place to start. We've discussed mods and circuit tweaks for the DSL in some detail also, which could easily get you into the right place. The problem is that starting with an Origin or SV20 will get you there without tweaking. And likely save you some coin into the bargain.

Good luck!

Yeah mate Adelaide SA lol, Yeah its Just a matter of trying out a few and seeing what works best. I have a friend who has about 80 guitars and about 6 really high end amps and he just uses pedals to Drive them. Thats just not good enough for me lol, I want natural Tube break up