Need Your Expertise - Is A Used JCM 800 Model 2204 Worth Double The Price Of A JCM 900 2100 MKIII or SL-x?

[marshallmellowed]

Got it, and thank you for clarifying. Any knowledge of the Marshall SV-20H Studio Vintage 20w 1959SLP Plexi vs the SC-20H?

I just happen to be fortunate enough to have all 3, what do you want to know?

 

[Headache]

My advice is find a JCM 2000 TSL , they can be found cheap, and they cover a lot of Marshall tones.
Stay away from the few bias drift 60watters and you'll be fine.
Marshalls best kept secret.

 

[Slapshot1]

I just happen to be fortunate enough to have all 3, what do you want to know?

Very impressive collection that you have. That makes it possible for you to really provide me with some meaningful answers. First, can you talk about the difference, particularly in sound, between the SV20H Plexi and the SC20H? And there seems to be a MKI and MkII? What years were the original made, and when did the MKII appear?
Secondly, I'm also interested in knowing your thoughts on how the 900 MKIII and 900 SL-X compare. I've seen varying comments. And I note you have modded both. What did you do, and what has it yielded?

 

[Kinkless Tetrode]

If I understand that correctly, the SV requires an additional power amp or preamp???

No, no, it has a preamp and a power amp built in. But without a master volume control you can't turn up its preamp to get gain and distortion and then control the overall volume using a master volume.

SC20H

Get the unmistakable JCM800 roar without upsetting the neighbours with the SC20H. This 20W head captures the spirit of the JCM800 range at a smaller size. Perfect for playing in the studio, or at home with the power reduction option set to 5W, make sure to pair the SC20H with one of our Studio...

marshall.com

 

[marshallmellowed]

Very impressive collection that you have. That makes it possible for you to really provide me with some meaningful answers. First, can you talk about the difference, particularly in sound, between the SV20H Plexi and the SC20H? And there seems to be a MKI and MkII? What years were the original made, and when did the MKII appear?
Secondly, I'm also interested in knowing your thoughts on how the 900 MKIII and 900 SL-X compare. I've seen varying comments. And I note you have modded both. What did you do, and what has it yielded?

Thanks, the wife says I have a problem. I just reply, "yes, but it's cheaper to keep her". The SV20, like most non-master 4 input Marshalls, is more open and dynamic (sensitive to picking dynamics) than your typical master volume Marshall's. The SC20 is a bit more mid-scooped than the SV20, but is not a dark sounding amp compared to say, a Jubilee. Not sure which amps you're asking about, as far as MKI and MKII. The 900 SL-X and MKIII are both good amps. I'd say that the MKIII is a bit thinner sounding than the SL-X, at least with the diode clip circuit rolled in. I removed the diode clip from my MKIII, and it's much closer to the SL-X. With a Hot Mod V2 installed in the MKIII, it's very close to the SL-X

 

[Sg-ocaster]

As the title says. I want the best JCM that I can buy for the money. The general agreement here seems to be that the 80's-90's 800 Model 2204's are the best within affordability. However, they go for $2300.00 and up, used in very good condition. And many, if not most are in need of an expensive cap and tube replacement, given their age.

I have also read that the JCM 900 model 2100 MKIII and SL-x may not be quite what the 800's are, but are still very good. They are half that price, even when retubed and recapped. A 50 watt version would be much preferred. Granted, those often seem to cost more than the 100w versions. And I believe any of the 100w versions would require me to buy an attenuator to use at home, adding an additional $700-800 to the cost.

Your thoughts, expertise and recommendations would be much appreciated. This would certainly seem to be the forum to ask that question of. Thanks, in advance, for any assistance.

Really its a matter of is the 2204 sound what you really want and is it worth that much money to you.
For me I remember a buddy buying his 2204 and 1960a out of a rag sheet for $550 in 2001.........so to me they dont sound THAT GOOD to fork over $2000+
They are a pretty simple amp, the money factor is simply that they are no longer made and everyones favorite 80's bands used them, so demand is up. Its like an 80's Camaro they were a dime a dozen and IMO not that good looking, but now people fork over more than the car cost new to own the car they remember there buddy had in high school.
Short answer.....buy a MKIII roll some pre tubes and deal with the tonal differances.
I bought my 2210 in 2003ish for $300, great amp. I saw one on ebay with a BIN for $3000 or so(I think $3599) I almost shit my self......It didnt sound THAT GOOD. With my new(to me) DSL100 I hardly even miss it.

 

[Slapshot1]

I guess that, for me, its coming down to how to best get the sound, or at least most of it, that a 204 is noted for, without paying the large sum of money that a 204 goes for, plus tubes and caps replacement, plus an expensive attenuator for either the 10w pr 50w versions. If the consensus is that I can achieve that with an Studio SV-20H, that works. No need for any servicing, no attenuator, done deal. But there are also a lot of people recommending a 900 MKIII, or SL-P as the best option.

Either of those 20 watt options would only cost me about a grand or so. Way less than half, and closer to a third the cost of a full blown 204 setup as I've described it.

 

[Slapshot1]

Of course, with further research, reading and listening to reviews and forum info, I discover that Marshall has recently only complicated the options to consider list by bringing out the Studio JTM and the 2525H Mini Silver Jubilee. And, of course, out of nowhere, a good friend, and gifted guitarist (a dedicated Marshall fan and owner) who lives in another part of the country, just called this morning to rave about the new Friedman JEL 20 (the Jake E Lee amp). He said that it's Plexi channel is great, and a second channel that delivers tremendous crunch. He just got done, yesterday, taking it over to a guitarist friend's place, and, in direct comparison, both of them felt that the JEL was actually better sounding than the mega dollar Friedman BE100 that hat his friend owns. Upon further investigation, on my part, it appears that Dave Friedman was developing his ultimate version of a Marshall JCM competitor for quite a few years, and the JEL is that amp.

 

[67mike]

These threads are useless.

You have zero clue what you want.

So, untill YOU, figure that out.....

 

[marshallmellowed]

These threads are useless.

You have zero clue what you want.

So, untill YOU, figure that out.....

I have to agree, kind of all over the map. If the OP wants a Marshall, and wants the sound of the 2204/2203 that should be the goal. If pricing prevents that, the next most logical option would be the SC20. Friedman's are good sounding amps, but not Marshalls. Once you start looking beyond Marshall, it's a whole different ball game and price range, a ton of options (PRS, Friedman, Metropolis, Fargen, Granger, Bray, and on and on...).

 

[Slapshot1]

I really wasnt trying to confuse the issue. I only mentioned the Friedman since I thought it might be of interest, to some here, coming from a dyed in the wool Marshall fan who owns five of their amps. Not something I would consider. I only mentioned the 20 watt Marshall releases because they confuse the issue. Just pointing out the myriad of options today.

Back to what I originally said, and stated as recently as last night "for me, its coming down to how to best get the sound, or at least most of it, that a 204 is noted for, without paying the large sum of money that a 204 goes for, plus tubes and caps replacement, plus an expensive attenuator for either the 10w pr 50w versions. If the consensus is that I can achieve that with an Studio SC-20H, that works. No need for any servicing, no attenuator, done deal. But there are also a lot of people recommending a 900 MKIII, or SL-P as the best option."

Thats the only remaining question that I need to find an answer to.

 

[Slapshot1]

Just to clarify further, the original goals was an actual JCM800 2204 in excellent condition (adding in tubes, having caps installed caps and a good attenuator). IF it could be done even reasonably affordably. It appears that it cant, and will run 2-3 times the total cost of either a 900 MKIII, 900 SL-P or a Studio JC20. The general agreement is that a 30-40 year old 2204 isn't worth 2-3 times the price. So I just need to be clear on what is my best remaining option.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Just to clarify further, the original goals was an actual JCM800 2204 in excellent condition (adding in tubes, having caps installed caps and a good attenuator). IF it could be done even reasonably affordably. It appears that it cant, and will run 2-3 times the total cost of either a 900 MKIII, 900 SL-P or a Studio JC20. The general agreement is that a 30-40 year old 2204 isn't worth 2-3 times the price. So I just need to be clear on what is my best remaining option.

If a 2204/2203 is out of your price range, the SC20H is your amp. It gets you the 2203/2204 DNA, as the preamp is pretty dead on. The only compromise, it won't sound as "big" as the 50 or 100 watt versions, but If you're a low volume player, that's an acceptable compromise. Buy it, if you don't like it, send it back. Beyond that, you're looking at something that will sound "different" than a 2204/2203, voicing wise.

 

[BlueX]

Just to clarify further, the original goals was an actual JCM800 2204 in excellent condition (adding in tubes, having caps installed caps and a good attenuator). IF it could be done even reasonably affordably. It appears that it cant, and will run 2-3 times the total cost of either a 900 MKIII, 900 SL-P or a Studio JC20. The general agreement is that a 30-40 year old 2204 isn't worth 2-3 times the price. So I just need to be clear on what is my best remaining option.

I haven't read all 4 pages so this might already have been discussed, but have you looked at (built) kits?

Modulus has a 50W "800" kit for GBP 742 (in total, including some nice upgrades) and GBP 383 for the build service. That should be about USD 1400, ex taxes and shipping. Might still be within "SC20" prices in the US (if that's where you're located).

MOD 800 2204 Small Box kit - 50w Output - Master Volume British Amp Kit

MOD 800 2204 Small Box kit - Master Volume Lead British Amp Kit Power Output 50w 120v/240v - 50/60hz Modulus Kit Suggested Layout DOWNLOAD HERE One

modulusamplification.com

 

[scozz]

Happened across some mentions and listings of the Marshall SV-20H Studio Vintage 20w 1959SLP Plexi Guitar Amp Head. How does this model compare to the SC-20H? JUst want to make sure my understanding is complete on these.

You’ll likely need an attenuator for an SV20, sounds to me like the SC20 would be a perfect fit.

It’s master volume and preamp volume interact really really well together so no attenuator required,… really. Unless of course if you want to crank the master, that will get loud even in the 5 watt mode.

 

[Deftone]

Just to clarify further, the original goals was an actual JCM800 2204 in excellent condition (adding in tubes, having caps installed caps and a good attenuator). IF it could be done even reasonably affordably. It appears that it cant, and will run 2-3 times the total cost of either a 900 MKIII, 900 SL-P or a Studio JC20. The general agreement is that a 30-40 year old 2204 isn't worth 2-3 times the price. So I just need to be clear on what is my best remaining option.

Well like I said earlier, I bought a '90 2204 this year from CL for $1100. It didn't need anything, sounds and functions perfectly. They are out there. Be patient, be vigilant and it never hurts to make an offer. The economy (and everything else) is fucked up right now and people are scared about the future. It's definitely a buyer's market.

 

[marshallmellowed]

If I didn't have my 2203x, and saw a decent deal on a 2204, unless it was obscenely low, I still wouldn't buy it. I'd keep looking for a 2203x, which has newer components, an FX loop, and could be run in either 100w or 50, if one were so inclined (removing 2 power tubes). I see no advantage in going the older 2204 route, at least in terms of tone and functionality.

 

[scozz]

These threads are useless.

You have zero clue what you want.

So, untill YOU, figure that out.....

Thank You Mike,…

 

[Slapshot1]

Well like I said earlier, I bought a '90 2204 this year from CL for $1100. It didn't need anything, sounds and functions perfectly. They are out there. Be patient, be vigilant and it never hurts to make an offer. The economy (and everything else) is fucked up right now and people are scared about the future. It's definitely a buyer's market.

Thanks. As you noted before, Reverb prices are very high for these amps, must completely un-serviced. In looking today, there was nothing under $2300.00, except a couple from Europe, which I wouldn't trust, much less pay $250+ shipping for. I can stand to wait a bit, make some offers, and see what happens. My biggest concern is that as I mentioned before, even 2204's do not necessarily sound the same, or equally good sometimes. The one my friend bought sounded twice as good as the other one at the same store. Years of manufacture may have been different, or maybe the one that sounded so inferior had caps that were failing, anything is possible. But for that reason, I feel like it's really necessary to play the amp to verify it sounds as it should. That rules out anything not local which is extremely limiting.

 

[Slapshot1]

If I didn't have my 2203x, and saw a decent deal on a 2204, unless it was obscenely low, I still wouldn't buy it. I'd keep looking for a 2203x, which has newer components, an FX loop, and could be run in either 100w or 50, if one were so inclined (removing 2 power tubes). I see no advantage in going the older 2204 route, at least in terms of tone and functionality.

I appreciate your thoughts on this. So you feel a 2203 would provide the same sound as a 2204 with the additional benefits you point out? Thats very interesting and may open up other possibilities. Thanks.