Need Your Expertise - Is A Used JCM 800 Model 2204 Worth Double The Price Of A JCM 900 2100 MKIII or SL-x?

[XTRXTR]

But hear this. Not ALL 800s sound good. They vary man, I know.. I tried out 4 different ones last weekend...I liked my DSLs more! Perhaps they were set up poorly, but while sounding Marshall, they just lacked focus...

Every great album selling guitar artist had a slew of pedals in front of their amp and still do. The old amps were made mostly clean-ish but loud. They were loud because back in the day PA systems just didn't have the ability to provide the loud, the PA was for the singer the amp did the rockin' - So...yeah Marshall...loud is what they did. Jimi and SRV didn't have a Sustainiac they had loud feedback to the strings creating the sustain and harmonics etc..

Every amp has its own personality you have to dial in your pedals and amp tone to get what you want out of it.

Angus and perhaps one or two others are an exception to that. Angus has some Mods in his amps and he blows them up often - there is a whole video about it on YouTube. In old footage you see guys going to their amp and tweaking things on stage. That is due to two things the room fills up and the tone changes so you have to adjust, and ear fatigue from the loud, the tone changes. But I ask; If you don't want loud why do you want a Marshall?

You say the hand wired stuff was good, the bigger iron is good, weighs a ton...good. You just described an old Marshall, good.

As with anything classic and beauty the demand goes up and supply goes down, price raises. Just like cars, paintings, guitars, books. Of course the opposite is true with women - lol In which case if she does that thing you like...she is priceless - but its a fund you have to keep investing in.

It's a MV amp... the lower gain is of course a thing, though for decades people have been goosing the front end with pedals - each to their own of course!

Thank you.

I think in this thread gain is being used wrong. Overdrive, Distortion, Sustain, Compression, Boost, Crunch, these are the terms people need to use. Gain generally is the amplification factor between the input and the output, inter stage, and overall of the amp. Inter stage gain can be unity or even attenuated.

If you want Metallica, you're going to need a few of those pedals unless you have an amp with built in distortions on an integrated IC and channel switches. Even then you need a foot pedal to activate those parameters. A rack mounted FX loop / Midi system with a controller foot pedal.

Just Talkin' Marsh-sense

 

[67mike]

Dude. I don't ' see that at all. The 800's have to be loud to give up the goods. That's the way they were designed to push the power tubes which means. loud. At lower volumes they thin out and with an SD-1 there is hardly any low end. M.V on 3 is so freaking loud but that's when it starts to open up a tad. No effects loop and not much gain on tap by today's standards. But it's tone is still the best. But needs to be cranked.

 

[Trem man]

I think the 80's was the last really good Marshall era, no disrespect to the newer reissues or their other newer models. A JCM800 2204 would be my pick over a 900. I might choose a JMP over a JCM if I found the right one but that's just me. I have an '86 2204S small box. My tech pulled the bright cap and changed another capacitor, it rules at the moment w/NOS EI EL84's.

 

[charlie wisser]

No one talks about Friedman and I've heard good things . I wouldn't know , I have two 2204's I love . But I am intrigued Buy the Friedmans .

 

[marshallmellowed]

No one talks about Friedman and I've heard good things . I wouldn't know , I have two 2204's I love . But I am intrigued Buy the Friedmans .

Like other amps of that niche, like Bray, Splawn... the guy's amps sound good. I've played through a BE100, and it reminded me a little of my Splawn Quickrod, which I sold years ago. While they do sound good, they'll never be "Marshalls". That history matters to some, but not necessarily everyone.

 

[Deftone]

Like other amps of that niche, like Bray, Splawn... the guy's amps sound good. I've played through a BE100, and it reminded me a little of my Splawn Quickrod, which I sold years ago. While they do sound good, they'll never be "Marshalls". That history matters to some, but not necessarily everyone.

All other things being equal, I prefer the one that says "Marshall" on it. YMMV

 

[Marker]

In short answer, yes.

 

[marshallmellowed]

Every great album selling guitar artist had a slew of pedals in front of their amp and still do. The old amps were made mostly clean-ish but loud. They were loud because back in the day PA systems just didn't have the ability to provide the loud, the PA was for the singer the amp did the rockin' - So...yeah Marshall...loud is what they did. Jimi and SRV didn't have a Sustainiac they had loud feedback to the strings creating the sustain and harmonics etc..

Every amp has its own personality you have to dial in your pedals and amp tone to get what you want out of it.

Angus and perhaps one or two others are an exception to that. Angus has some Mods in his amps and he blows them up often - there is a whole video about it on YouTube. In old footage you see guys going to their amp and tweaking things on stage. That is due to two things the room fills up and the tone changes so you have to adjust, and ear fatigue from the loud, the tone changes. But I ask; If you don't want loud why do you want a Marshall?

You say the hand wired stuff was good, the bigger iron is good, weighs a ton...good. You just described an old Marshall, good.

As with anything classic and beauty the demand goes up and supply goes down, price raises. Just like cars, paintings, guitars, books. Of course the opposite is true with women - lol In which case if she does that thing you like...she is priceless - but its a fund you have to keep investing in.

Thank you.

I think in this thread gain is being used wrong. Overdrive, Distortion, Sustain, Compression, Boost, Crunch, these are the terms people need to use. Gain generally is the amplification factor between the input and the output, inter stage, and overall of the amp. Inter stage gain can be unity or even attenuated.

If you want Metallica, you're going to need a few of those pedals unless you have an amp with built in distortions on an integrated IC and channel switches. Even then you need a foot pedal to activate those parameters. A rack mounted FX loop / Midi system with a controller foot pedal.

Just Talkin' Marsh-sense

The statement regarding gain is so true. Most guitarists think gain and distortion are one and the same. The 2nd guitarist in one of my cover bands is one of them.

 

[scozz]

Every great album selling guitar artist had a slew of pedals in front of their amp and still do. The old amps were made mostly clean-ish but loud…………

This describes Dave Gilmour to a tee, Hiwatt amps and bajillion pedals!

 

[Derrick111]

As the title says. I want the best JCM that I can buy for the money. The general agreement here seems to be that the 80's-90's 800 Model 2204's are the best within affordability. However, they go for $2300.00 and up, used in very good condition. And many, if not most are in need of an expensive cap and tube replacement, given their age.

I have also read that the JCM 900 model 2100 MKIII and SL-x may not be quite what the 800's are, but are still very good. They are half that price, even when retubed and recapped. A 50 watt version would be much preferred. Granted, those often seem to cost more than the 100w versions. And I believe any of the 100w versions would require me to buy an attenuator to use at home, adding an additional $700-800 to the cost.

Your thoughts, expertise and recommendations would be much appreciated. This would certainly seem to be the forum to ask that question of. Thanks, in advance, for any assistance.

You can make most Marshalls do the "Marshall thing", but a JCM900 or a SL-X won't do the JCM800 thing any more than other Marshalls will do it. They aren't the same at all so you might as well get the JCM800 if that is what you like the sound of instead of spending a bunch of money on a disappointment. Consider that if they were that close, people would be scarfing up JCM900s instead of shelling out for JCM800s. Those amps sound good in their own right, but there is a reason people aren't buying them instead of an JCM800.

Also, you reasoned that "most [JCM800s] are in need of an expensive cap and tube replacement" compared to a JCM900. You may believe that filter caps are bad just because they are old, but just remember that the 800s, 900s, and SL-X are all over 20 years old at this point so that logic wouldn't just apply to the JCM800. It would apply to the JCM900s and SL-X too. For what it's worth, I have all the original caps in all my JCM800s and they are all still quite healthy.

 

[Slapshot1]

You can make most Marshalls do the "Marshall thing", but a JCM900 or a SL-X won't do the JCM800 thing any more than other Marshalls will do it. They aren't the same at all so you might as well get the JCM800 if that is what you like the sound of instead of spending a bunch of money on a disappointment. Consider that if they were that close, people would be scarfing up JCM900s instead of shelling out for JCM800s. Those amps sound good in their own right, but there is a reason people aren't buying them instead of an JCM800.

Also, you reasoned that "most [JCM800s] are in need of an expensive cap and tube replacement" compared to a JCM900. You may believe that filter caps are bad just because they are old, but just remember that the 800s, 900s, and SL-X are all over 20 years old at this point so that logic wouldn't just apply to the JCM800. It would apply to the JCM900s and SL-X too. For what it's worth, I have all the original caps in all my JCM800s and they are all still quite healthy.

Thanks fpr your perspective on this, especially thee fact that apparently, those original caps can still be fine.

 

[abkeller1]

You can make most Marshalls do the "Marshall thing", but a JCM900 or a SL-X won't do the JCM800 thing any more than other Marshalls will do it. They aren't the same at all so you might as well get the JCM800 if that is what you like the sound of instead of spending a bunch of money on a disappointment. Consider that if they were that close, people would be scarfing up JCM900s instead of shelling out for JCM800s. Those amps sound good in their own right, but there is a reason people aren't buying them instead of an JCM800.

Also, you reasoned that "most [JCM800s] are in need of an expensive cap and tube replacement" compared to a JCM900. You may believe that filter caps are bad just because they are old, but just remember that the 800s, 900s, and SL-X are all over 20 years old at this point so that logic wouldn't just apply to the JCM800. It would apply to the JCM900s and SL-X too. For what it's worth, I have all the original caps in all my JCM800s and they are all still quite healthy.

I disagree. An SL-X can come pretty close to the 800 by backing off both gains. I have both a 2204 (82) & 93 (SL-X). When Guitar Center posts an SL-X for sale, it's gone in 1 day. So they are being scarfed up. Yes it lacks low end but put an EQ in loop and there you go. But the SL-X gives you the option to have a shit ton of gain. An 800 doesn't have much gain for todays standards. And if you don't get an 800 reissue there is NO effects loop. And did I mention of freaking LOUD and 800 is. It's too dam loud these days. MY SL-X is my go to amp for the reasons I mentioned.

 

[Derrick111]

I disagree. An SL-X can come pretty close to the 800 by backing off both gains. I have both a 2204 (82) & 93 (SL-X). When Guitar Center posts an SL-X for sale, it's gone in 1 day. So they are being scarfed up. Yes it lacks low end but put an EQ in loop and there you go. But the SL-X gives you the option to have a shit ton of gain. An 800 doesn't have much gain for todays standards. And if you don't get an 800 reissue there is NO effects loop. And did I mention of freaking LOUD and 800 is. It's too dam loud these days. MY SL-X is my go to amp for the reasons I mentioned.

I wasn't saying they weren't desirable amps... I was sayig that people aren't buying them as a poor mans JCM800 replacement. I'm not surprised they are selling well, but that doesn't mean the reason is because people see them as an affordable alternative to getting a real JCM800. Never heard that claim before. JCM800s are a link between the 70s JMPs and the later high gain amps because they are so close to a JMP. The SL-X with ICs is not. High gain amps don't have the organic character on tap that earlier amps do, and this is the part that people are so drawn to. The JCM800 can sound high gain, they can sound old school, or they can sound like a blended combination of each very easily. In no way is an SL-X with its ICs in the front end going to sound like an organic link to the 70s like a JCM800 can with its all tube amp design any more than other Marshalls could. I've toured with both and in general, the SL-X doesn't come close to the JCM800 any more than other Marshalls do. So if you want the JCM800 magic that people are requesting, go with the actual JCM800. That's my perspective and that's all I was saying above to the OP.

 

[scozz]

You can make most Marshalls do the "Marshall thing", but a JCM900 or a SL-X won't do the JCM800 thing any more than other Marshalls will do it. They aren't the same at all so you might as well get the JCM800 if that is what you like the sound of instead of spending a bunch of money on a disappointment. Consider that if they were that close, people would be scarfing up JCM900s instead of shelling out for JCM800s. Those amps sound good in their own right, but there is a reason people aren't buying them instead of an JCM800.

Also, you reasoned that "most [JCM800s] are in need of an expensive cap and tube replacement" compared to a JCM900. You may believe that filter caps are bad just because they are old, but just remember that the 800s, 900s, and SL-X are all over 20 years old at this point so that logic wouldn't just apply to the JCM800. It would apply to the JCM900s and SL-X too. For what it's worth, I have all the original caps in all my JCM800s and they are all still quite healthy.

I wasn't saying they weren't desirable amps... I was sayig that people aren't buying them as a poor mans JCM800 replacement. I'm not surprised they are selling well, but that doesn't mean the reason is because people see them as an affordable alternative to getting a real JCM800. Never heard that claim before. JCM800s are a link between the 70s JMPs and the later high gain amps because they are so close to a JMP. The SL-X with ICs is not. High gain amps don't have the organic character on tap that earlier amps do, and this is the part that people are so drawn to. The JCM800 can sound high gain, they can sound old school, or they can sound like a blended combination of each very easily. In no way is an SL-X with its ICs in the front end going to sound like an organic link to the 70s like a JCM800 can with its all tube amp design any more than other Marshalls could. I've toured with both and in general, the SL-X doesn't come close to the JCM800 any more than other Marshalls do. So if you want the JCM800 magic that people are requesting, go with the actual JCM800. That's my perspective and that's all I was saying above to the OP.

Exactly,… great points @Derrick111.

It’s almost always best to get what you really want the first time, if not, you’ll always wonder about the real deal, and you’ll probably end up spending a lot more $ by the time it all said and done.

I’ve bought things, on a number of occasions, that I thought would be a good substitute for what I really want,….. only to find out they’re not what I really want.

So I end up finally getting what I want, and I’ve spent more money than if I just got what I wanted in the first place.

This sounds like a perfect example of that,…