One-stop pedal for "metal" tones

[PelliX]

Sounds like a good opportunity to get a hotmod and a tube screamer

I have a TS, but it cuts the low end too much for this task. The hotmod... would probably be a superior solution in a number of ways, but it's just overkill for the requirement.

I'm going to give the ML-2 a whirl and see where that gets me, I think. Thanks so far!

 

[Deftone]

@PelliX curious to know what you end up with. I'm always on the lookout for a different Distortion pedal.

FWIW....I had a Boss Heavy Metal back in the 80's. IIRC I preferred my RAT and sold it.

 

[DreamerDeceiver]

Remember these?

 

[PelliX]

@PelliX curious to know what you end up with. I'm always on the lookout for a different Distortion pedal.

I'll keep the thread posted when it arrives. I'm still thinking about getting the Micro Metal Muff, too, after what you said about it. I might still do that.

FWIW....I had a Boss Heavy Metal back in the 80's. IIRC I preferred my RAT and sold it.

Yeah, I've watched a few videos and it doesn't seem to be the winner of any comparison so far. I have my RAT and while it's a swiss army knife, some things just require a different tool to get the job done right, I find.

 

[TheKman76]

Bit late to the party here. What drive pedals do you already have?
Some of my favourite heavy tones come from mixing and matching drives and EQ. There's a fair chance that one or two drives into an already crunchy JCM will yield good results.

Rabea agrees!

 

[PelliX]

Bit late to the party here. What drive pedals do you already have?
Some of my favourite heavy tones come from mixing and matching drives and EQ. There's a fair chance that one or two drives into an already crunchy JCM will yield good results.

They're listed in my sig; Tubescreamer, RAT2, Germanium 4 Big Muff Pi. The TS sucks too much low end for this, and the Overdrive section of the Muff isn't great. I use the Distortion section of it just to add some grit to some tones, but it feels like the wrong tool for the job. My RAT has become the weapon of choice for this, and it may well remain an ingredient - but it needs assistance I feel. I can pull off some stuff on the GX-700 unit, but the OD/Dist tends to sound a bit digital, especially when stacking the FX.

Rabea agrees!

Of course - he sells 'em! Nah, he's cool

 

[Stefan_E]

Boss Mega Distortion cuts much less of the low end than other Boss-pedals. Might be worth a try.
I had one and I liked it. Lots of low end, and transparent compared to for example the HM-2 that of course has it's very special character.

 

[TheKman76]

The RAT is a great tool for this I reckon. I do it all in the GT-1000, but the RAT plus Blues Driver in the front and EQ after the preamp are killer. Not sure what the GX-700 is capable of, but I'm sure it can do some EQ work right?

Having a good amount of bass cut up front is a great way to keep it neat and tight. Keeping the presences range under control is important for heavy tones or it can loose lots of clarity, so amp EQ and drives need to control this. Finally, EQ after the preamp determines how much of any frequency range is extant in the final sound. Scooped or mid-focussed, this should be done in the post preamp EQ phase, not the preamp.

Maybe I'm preaching here, but a couple of low-gain (ok, the RAT isn't low gain) flexible pedals pushing a crunchy amp, plus EQ in the loop can do almost anything. I guess you could say I'm not a fan of on-trick pedals. To my mind really heavy stuff is better with mid pushed into the amp with pedal gain set low and level set high and EQ to taste after the preamp. For this you need *nothing* special at all.

I still think there's plenty you can do with the RAT, TS and GX without adding a single pedal to the mix. If anything an EQ pedal might be a good investment.

 

[FleshOnGear]

Boss Mega Distortion cuts much less of the low end than other Boss-pedals. Might be worth a try.
I had one and I liked it. Lots of low end, and transparent compared to for example the HM-2 that of course has it's very special character.

Yeah! The MD-2 is rad! I think it’s way underrated. And, it’s a pretty unique circuit design.

 

[PelliX]

The RAT is a great tool for this I reckon. I do it all in the GT-1000, but the RAT plus Blues Driver in the front and EQ after the preamp are killer. Not sure what the GX-700 is capable of, but I'm sure it can do some EQ work right?

Yup, the RAT is not 'far off' what I was looking for (or is it "listening for"?) on a few of those tracks. For the studio work there's double tracking anyway, and I was often doing one of the tracks with the RAT, another without to give it a more 'multi-dimensional' sound. OK, now I'm just waffling buzzwords to describe sounds, but I think you get the picture! The GX has a lovely EQ - one of the best I've ever come across in such rack gear. Maybe if I were to use an EQ before the RAT and then another EQ in the loop... that might work or have worked...

Having a good amount of bass cut up front is a great way to keep it neat and tight. Keeping the presences range under control is important for heavy tones or it can loose lots of clarity, so amp EQ and drives need to control this. Finally, EQ after the preamp determines how much of any frequency range is extant in the final sound. Scooped or mid-focussed, this should be done in the post preamp EQ phase, not the preamp.

Yup, exactly. However cutting enough lows up front for it not to go 'mushy' means I lost the thump in the end result. EQ'ing that back in felt and sounded inferior, as I was attempting to amplify something that was barely there and the tiny tad left wasn't punchy. A frequency based compressor and EQ combination might do the trick. It was around this time I figured that plenty of (no offense) stupid metalheads could get this tone without blinking and my wiring scheme was starting to make a point-to-point wired TSL look spartan...

Maybe I'm preaching here, but a couple of low-gain (ok, the RAT isn't low gain) flexible pedals pushing a crunchy amp, plus EQ in the loop can do almost anything.

Yup, before I proceed, let me agree with your next point, too, haha!

I guess you could say I'm not a fan of on-trick pedals. To my mind really heavy stuff is better with mid pushed into the amp with pedal gain set low and level set high and EQ to taste after the preamp. For this you need *nothing* special at all.

Totally. Same here. These tones I'm looking for are not (and will not become) a substantial part of our repertoire. I dislike pedals in general and generally do over 90% of everything with just guitar, amp, perhaps a noise gate and a touch of reverb (often handled by the amp). As the guitarist in a cover band, I need some "other stuff" from time to time and the GX and/or RAT covers those needs very well - this seems like a little exception.

I still think there's plenty you can do with the RAT, TS and GX without adding a single pedal to the mix.

Why yes! The majority of everything I play!

If anything an EQ pedal might be a good investment.

While the GX can only do a single instance of any given effect I also have the GP-8 which has a fairly decent EQ, so that's two right there.

 

[JPummil]

Bought a Boss HM-2 when they first came out back in the early '80's...loved that pedal! Haven't owned many straight up "metal" distortion unit since, but I have often considered tracking down another HM-2 to have around just because it seemed so damned good back then...

 

[TheKman76]

OK @PelliX I'm satisfied you know what you're doing.

I tend to look at overdrive/distortion as a four-part system. EQ -> OD/DS -> EQ -> power amp/speakers. In Marshall world and classis distortion tones the power amp and speakers play arguably the largest part. In heavy tones the preamp is 90% of the sound and is just EQ and distortion, really. Even the clipping stage of a valve amp can be mostly modelled using a set of time-domain and frequency-domain stages.

With a parametric EQ in front, any old clipping circuit and another parametric EQ after, I can get close to almost anything.

I'm rambling...

If I was to insert a pedal into your chain here it would be hard to go past something like the Metal Zone. Maybe the Waza? The mid control is *powerful* and the circuit is versatile. I'm a bit of a Boss man myself, so my other choice would probably be a Blues Driver. Either way, driving it low-ish and goosing a pre-amp followed by EQ. I suppose I have to qualify all of this by saying my experience with them all is through GT-1000 models. I have just one distortion pedal, a 108 fuzz.

 

[PelliX]

OK @PelliX I'm satisfied you know what you're doing.

What? Who on earth gave you that idea?!?

If I was to insert a pedal into your chain here it would be hard to go past something like the Metal Zone. Maybe the Waza?

The Waza's are nice but they're also more expensive. If I were to buy something that I would use on a regular basis I'd happily throw down the money but for this niche requirement I'm trying the cheap road first. If this ML-2 doesn't work out I'll flog it and buy something else.

The mid control is *powerful* and the circuit is versatile.

The Metal Zone to me sounds more mid-focussed (going by Youtube videos and descriptions, of course). If I need more mid's I can get them, it's scooping them and *still* sounding decent that's tricky here. The demos of course *never* put the pedal in a full band mix, so we'll see how that works out. The mid control is powerful, but not very flexible. To me so far the ML-2 has the 'character' I'm looking for out of the box, or is at least a lot closer. We'll see how that pans out.

I'm a bit of a Boss man myself, so my other choice would probably be a Blues Driver. Either way, driving it low-ish and goosing a pre-amp followed by EQ. I suppose I have to qualify all of this by saying my experience with them all is through GT-1000 models. I have just one distortion pedal, a 108 fuzz.

Same here, all my BOSS effects are in my GP-8's and my GX. The only actual BOSS pedal I have currently is an RC-3 looper...

 

[TheKman76]

The Metal Zone to me sounds more mid-focussed... The mid control is powerful, but not very flexible.

Can't say I agree with that sentiment. There's only so much we can get from online reviews of these things too, much of it's versatility I've not seen demonstrated well. Sadly my original pedal from the 90's is long gone. The GT does a fair facsimile.

Now that I'm looking at it the Metal Core is in there too. Time to play.

EDIT: So I had a play with Metal Core also, this really does the scoop thing out of the box. I think I see the attraction. Didn't really like it driving a low-gain channel like I would use the Metal Zone, but into something with some real grit already it's great. And once you get the EQ dialled for the Metal Core, yeah, the Metal Zone sounds quite honky by comparison.

 

[PelliX]

Yeah, I think we're on the same page here Primary target for me will be the high input on the JCM. The guts are also totally different; whereas the Metal Zone is pretty regular drive/distortion circuit give or take, the Metal Core is actually entirely DSP by the looks of it. I have enough faith in BOSS not to eff it up, though. If they did - back on the market it goes and someone else can have a crack at it.

 

[TheKman76]

Have a feeling you'll be well pleased actually. Driving a JCM high input sounds perfect. I drove the classic crunch channel on the DSL with gain at 2pm using the Metal Core model, tone shift in and mids around 9am. 80's metal all day.

Bit spoiled with the GT, though. I can spend 5 minutes creating a patch with two drives and two EQs that would cost about AUD 1K in the analogue realm. There aren't enough hours in the day to explore everything. tehe

I look forward to hearing how you go.

 

[SkyMonkey]

How about the REVV G3.

It's another pedal that has a good reputation when used directly into an FX Return jack, like a preamp.
There is a higher gain G4, but the G3 is probably enough for your uses.

I use the MT-2 on my 4CM pedal board into the FX Return, but the board is controlled by a Boss LS-2.
That way I can change between out front ODs and FX Return preamps on the same board.

 

[PelliX]

While it does look pretty nice, it's north of the budget on this - at least so far, and I doubt I'll need to shell out 250 euros. The ML-2 should be arriving in a day or two and the Micro Metal Muff is my plan B if that doesn't work out. I don't mind paying 250 or 1000 euros for a piece of kit, but it has to warrant it in usage. I've never liked 'metal' in any shape, but there's an overlapping territory of hard rock with metal touches that I appreciate a little and other band members love (Metallica, Judas Priest, Dio, etc), so I'd like to deliver the tones for the material but not break the bank doing so. Low investment both in terms of cash and effort in tone chasing - I'm honest!

Nonetheless, thanks for the suggestion - duly appreciated!

 

[paul-e-mann]

As the name of the thread suggests, I'm looking for a sort of 'one stop' pedal to get more 'metal' sounds. Of course I understand that a Mesa or SLO amp with a [insert pointy guitar of choice] is more the real deal. For the odd casual cover where I need these tones, a simple pedal should suffice. So far I'm thinking:

* BOSS Metal Zone MT-2
* BOSS Metal Core

Open for suggestions. Ideally, as this is a very small part of the repertoire, I'm not looking to break the bank. I can get hold of the pedals above for a few tenners.

Proco RAT, works great and very inexpensive.

 

[JSutter]

I have a TS, but it cuts the low end too much for this task. The hotmod... would probably be a superior solution in a number of ways, but it's just overkill for the requirement.

I'm going to give the ML-2 a whirl and see where that gets me, I think. Thanks so far!

Do you know how to solder? Replacing a cap or resistor will fix the loss of bass.