Ppimv Or Attenuator

[tremojem]

I have the Ceriatone 1968 Super Lead 100W head.

I love this thing.

My question is this.

I have a choice of cranking both channels and then using the PPIMV or, cranking the PPIMV and both channels and then using an attenuator.

What is the difference...in other words, what is happening to the circuit in both scenarios.

A friend came over the other day, and we A/B'd the two choices as best we could, on the fly in real time, so that I could get a feel and sense of what the amp sounded like and felt like, but with other distractions and such, I hate to say that I was a little disappointed at the lack of definitive results.

 

[Garrett]

On TGP they will tell you to get the Fryette Power Station. It's expensive, but has a lot of fans. Others say it colors the amps tone a bit.

Attenuators suffer from "tone suck". I have a lower cost Weber MiniMass, it knocks a few dB's off but it does make the amp sound a bit thin. You can get decent tones with it but I don't care for the result.

I prefer the PPIMV to tame my 50 watt. It's not a perfect solution either but it's what I prefer of the two options. I've been through lower wattage amps for lower volume play but they don't have the balls of the 50/100 watt amps.

They both will result in lower volume for home use if that's what your after. But you'll never get the same sound as if the amp were cranked.

Others will suggest less efficient speakers.

There are tons and tons of threads about this topic. The answer in the end is your tonal preference or what your wallet can handle.

 

[tremojem]

Thanks

 

[paul-e-mann]

I have the Ceriatone 1968 Super Lead 100W head.

I love this thing.

My question is this.

I have a choice of cranking both channels and then using the PPIMV or, cranking the PPIMV and both channels and then using an attenuator.

What is the difference...in other words, what is happening to the circuit in both scenarios.

A friend came over the other day, and we A/B'd the two choices as best we could, on the fly in real time, so that I could get a feel and sense of what the amp sounded like and felt like, but with other distractions and such, I hate to say that I was a little disappointed at the lack of definitive results.

So that tells you there's no difference - you get the same result

 

[SG~GUY]

-depends on which attenuator you use, they have come a long way in the last couple of years, I had an ARACOM attenuator that was awesome, attenuator's tend to be amp selective, for a MARSHALL, or any amp built off the MARSHALL platform, it's by far the best.... you get what you pair for-

 

[langmurf]

My two cents... You can use an attenuator with multiple amps. If you only need to attenuate the one amp, the LAR/MAR PPIMV will save you hundreds of dollars. I'd go PPIMV, personally.

 

[tremojem]

Well, I sat down for most of the night last night with my friends THD Hotplate 16 Ohm attenuator.

I went back and forth from the PPIMV on my amp to the THD.

There are some nuances that differentiate the two, for example:

Tone suck on the THD.
Muddy with the THD.
Looser with the THD in the lows.
A pinch more touch sensitive with the THD.

I think I might be happier with the PPIMV for the money, meaning...sure I could go and spend $600 on a real good attenuator, but it just isn't worth it.

That money would be MUCH better spent on another cab loaded with greenbacks.

On a side note, with channel one at 3/4, channel two at 1/2, bridged with guitar into channel one/hi, I cranked the PPIMV to just about 1/2.

It was loud but GLORIOUS.

I then went ahead and cranked it to 3/4.

It was much LOUDER, but not that much better...hmmm, there is a sweet spot. LOL

Oh, by the way, the touch sensitivity was the best with the PPIMV at just about 1/2.

I love this amp!

 

[Garrett]

I find the same with the PPIMV. You have to have it at least half way, anything less and the tone is pretty poor, gets a bit fizzy with too much preamp gain. But as you said it's on the loud side, not crazy loud but not bedroom volume either. \

That's when I got the attenuator, to try and use it and the PPIMV together to knock off a few more dB's. Didn't care for the result.

I'm playing through a JTM45/50 clone. Freaking glorious sounding amp when you crank it but can crack the drywall in a small room.

 

[john l]

The marketing of most attenuators really has muddied the concept of how attenuators are supposed to be used. So many people that just play around the house will go out and buy 100 watters thinking they can just attenuate it's almost funny...
The bottom line is that once you start hearing and feeling the artifacts that so many complain about you are officially over attenuating. These things were designed to be on stages and in studios where shit is still very loud and even then they were intended to be used sparingly.

For the guys that are trying to get big amps to cooperate in impractical situations look into the re amping units. They were designed for uber low level playing.

 

[X2203xman]

I think this is a great point.I too wanted to hear that plexi tone at home without getting arrested,or least being a d**k to my neighbors.I decided I would only go with a 1987,it's just a 50 watter,itt'le be fine..wrong again.To me plexi style amps have a different loud.The power amp drive seems more in your face than pre amp driven tone.After a round or two with the Hotplate,and back to the boosted front end,and even back to the THD,I have decided that a plexi just can't be smothered and sound like the awesome plexi in your head.Without spending anymore on a hobby that has become increasingly more of a bedroom hobby,I will be boosting the front end of the 1987 from now on.I'm getting better results,plus it's very practical and simple.For me the attenuator added a very unpleasant after note fizz,or phase sound.Once you got the amp loud enough to get rid of the unwanted side fx,the police were most likely already notified.John makes a great point.Re amp if you can,if not,a quality overdrive box will make a plexi sing pretty nicely at a moderate volume level..

 

[slagg]

^^this all day^^

 

[ampmadscientist]

The attenuator / fluxtone speaker is always better.
To get a good tone from a Marshall, the output tubes need to be pushed hard, into overdrive.
PPIMV will never sound as great because the output tubes are not being overdriven.

 

[SG~GUY]

-this is way off topic,.. but kinda on topic,...

-I have a electro harmonix pre-amp tube that's "broke",... in that it cuts the volume down to pretty much nothing,... BUT!!!,.. I can dime both volume & master volume,.. -(out put is like 1 or maybe 1.5)- the sound of the amp with the GOLD LION KT88's is f*ckin insane!!... but it scares the hell out of me to run it like that for too long,... so anyways,..

 

[jack daniels]

The attenuator / fluxtone speaker is always better.
To get a good tone from a Marshall, the output tubes need to be pushed hard, into overdrive.
PPIMV will never sound as great because the output tubes are not being overdriven.

If one can afford (what is it $900 to a grand?) for one.

 

[Gunner64]

-this is way off topic,.. but kinda on topic,...

-I have a electro harmonix pre-amp tube that's "broke",... in that it cuts the volume down to pretty much nothing,... BUT!!!,.. I can dime both volume & master volume,.. -(out put is like 1 or maybe 1.5)- the sound of the amp with the GOLD LION KT88's is f*ckin insane!!... but it scares the hell out of me to run it like that for too long,... so anyways,..

Which makes me think...why doesnt someone invent an "attenuator " tube llke your f ed up one.....thatd be awesome.

 

[jack daniels]

As has been said before, the true intent or purpose of an attenuator is to attenuate or knock down the signal level. If say you used an attenuator to knock down the volume to an acceptable level, use a PPIMV, jumper the inputs, and use a good transparent overdrive pedal like say a Hermida Audio Zendrive Overdrive pedal you'll dig it the most.

AND if you want to take it a step further, then employ a Triode/Pentode circuit w/switch So, as AMS would say you can knock the volume down further from 100W to 40W and then use a combination of the above. Whatever works well for you is the best answer anyone can give.

 

[64Vibroverb]

I have PPIMV's on 2 of my Plexi's (50w & 100w). Also have a Rivera RockCrusher for my non MV clones. Where the PPIMV shines is at a gig to fine tune the volume for that venue, No need to haul an extra piece of equipment. My 100w is the sh!ts with the vol on 8 and the MV at 50% give or take.

 

[jack daniels]

I was told there were anywhere from 4 to 5? MV circuits used by Marshall when the first Marshall MV amps came out of which only one or two worked well enough not to exhibit 'buzziness' which is why those particular MV circuits are more sought after. Of course these MV circuits are Pre-Phase Inverter Master Volume types as the Lar-Mar PPIMV didn't come until later. I've yet to see Ken Fischer's (Trainwreck Amplifiers) take on the Post Phase Inverter Master Volume circuit.

 

[iron broadsword]

Since you mentioned you have experience with the THD, check this video out:



IMHO, the weber blows it out of the water and they are still pretty inexpensive. Here's a real nice example of what happens to the tone as you turn it down with the weber.. To my ears it is phenomenal. Just ordered a mass 200, actually.

 

[Metroman]

If budget ever allowed Id check into the Power Station.

Its also a 2 x 6L6 x 1 x 12ax7 Power Amp, and is 1-50 watts. Effects loop. 0000+++ Tone Suck.

If you get a really nice Pre Amp like an Effectrode Blackbird, you also have a whole new amp.

I myself don't like PPIMVs, or most attenuators but really like the PS. Although admittedly expensive.