Recording practice sessions - educate me, I'm a numpty.

[TheKman76]

First up, excuse the rambling post.

My daughter is building an interest in music performance, she plays guitar, some bass and sings with a band at school. Last weekend they had there first practice session outside of school and needed gear to keep up with an acoustic drummer. None of them have any P.A. gear (they're all 13yo) so I borrowed a Behringer B112D powered speaker, purchased a Shure Beta 58A mic and patched together a rig using a Behringer FLOW8 mixer/pre I got for karaoke. I later discovered the bass player didn't have an amp for practice so we also plugged it straight into the mixer via a Boss WL-20 wireless unit. It all sounded surprisingly good, at least compared to my memory of practice sessions when I was a teenager, and they had a great time.

The next time they practice maybe they'll want to record it... Now I'm really out of my depth. Is there a hand-help battery-operated solution for this? I don't think the FLOW8 is flexible enough for me to use a separate channel and room mic to record to USB.

What say you?

 

[TheKman76]

Turns out the mixer will let you record a single channel independently, so scratch that. What mic?

 

[PelliX]

Skipping the recording part, then. What are you aiming for, a single mic recording of the whole thing, or a vocals mic, mic for guitar, mics on the drums?

It depends a bit on budget, but I'd probably go with one or two overhead mics on the kit (57's or 58's will do this, though you might want a dedicated mic on the kick). Vocals... a 58 works great in a live setup. Acoustic guitars: LDC, ideally, but a dynamic would work. The 57/58 are a bit nasal for my liking on most acoustic guitars, but will work, just make sure the position is right. For an electric... do you have a line/DI option? If not, a 57/58 against the grill does it for me.

 

[TheKman76]

Thanks @PelliX Sorry, not being very clear, I know. I'm looking for a simple, single mic solution for recording their practices sessions.

This is all very rudimentary, they haven't even asked about recording practices and it's purely for the purpose of review. So far the mixer is there purely to provide phantom power to the Beta 58A for vocals and feed the powered monitor. The bass was an after-thought.

I wasn't sure if the Flow 8 could simultaneously handle sending mics and bass to the main outs while also allowing independent recording of a single channel to the USB interface. I've since learned that it can handle that just fine.

Basic setup is this:
Acoustic drums
One 90's Peavey Rage amp
One Katana amp
No bass amp (Christmas gift in the works, maybe)
One vocalist

So, what kind of mic might suit that purpose? Again, just for review of the sessions or to share with friends, not for professional style recordings.. At least, not yet. They're kids, you know. They'd probably be happy with iPhone recordings. When I was their age we used a cassette recorder, it was bloody awful. I'm just trying to think a step ahead for now. I've just ordered a pair of Behringer powered monitors and have yet to invest in a mic stand. *Very* rudimentary.

I'm really just thinking out loud, honestly. Not an area I have any expertise in. Does a 57/58 have any value as a room mic? Anything that can be re-purposed with a more specific application down the line I consider a good investment. A 57 can do duty as a cab mic or drum mic down the line, right?

In the interim I think a single mic they can move around to get what they want is the goal. If it can have a second purpose or has resale value then I don't mind spending a little on it, within reason. I've just spent about AU$1,400 on bits for them to make the basics sound passable for practice.

On the other hand maybe a Zoom H4n or similar is a better option? I have *no* idea what I'm talking about here. Please, educate me!

 

[PelliX]

So far the mixer is there purely to provide phantom power to the Beta 58A for vocals and feed the powered monitor. The bass was an after-thought.

But.... the 58A is a dynamic mic that needs no phantom power?

So, what kind of mic might suit that purpose? Again, just for review of the sessions or to share with friends, not for professional style recordings.. At least, not yet. They're kids, you know. They'd probably be happy with iPhone recordings. When I was their age we used a cassette recorder, it was bloody awful. I'm just trying to think a step ahead for now. I've just ordered a pair of Behringer powered monitors and have yet to invest in a mic stand. *Very* rudimentary.

That's cool. A single mic... I'd be hard pressed. I guess a 58 pointed in the general direction would get MOST of it, but I'd want at least a kick mic and one for vocals. Maybe skip the kick mic, but certainly "room" and "vocals".

Does a 57/58 have any value as a room mic? Anything that can be re-purposed with a more specific application down the line I consider a good investment. A 57 can do duty as a cab mic or drum mic down the line, right?

A 57/58 is a solid investment, whatever you end up doing. They're not VERY good room mics, but it seems a bit over the top to shell out on an LDC or a [swallow] ribbon mic. Perhaps, if you're feeling budget happy, a RODE NT1 or NT1-A would be a nice addition. Those would need phantom power. And yes, a 57 works great as a drum mic. Even for the kick, though it's a bit nasal for that, often - or so I find.

In the interim I think a single mic they can move around to get what they want is the goal. If it can have a second purpose or has resale value then I don't mind spending a little on it, within reason. I've just spent about AU$1,400 on bits for them to make the basics sound passable for practice.

You can always flog a 57/58 without too much loss.

 

[Crikey]

First up, excuse the rambling post.

My daughter is building an interest in music performance, she plays guitar, some bass and sings with a band at school. Last weekend they had there first practice session outside of school and needed gear to keep up with an acoustic drummer. None of them have any P.A. gear (they're all 13yo) so I borrowed a Behringer B112D powered speaker, purchased a Shure Beta 58A mic and patched together a rig using a Behringer FLOW8 mixer/pre I got for karaoke. I later discovered the bass player didn't have an amp for practice so we also plugged it straight into the mixer via a Boss WL-20 wireless unit. It all sounded surprisingly good, at least compared to my memory of practice sessions when I was a teenager, and they had a great time.

The next time they practice maybe they'll want to record it... Now I'm really out of my depth. Is there a hand-help battery-operated solution for this? I don't think the FLOW8 is flexible enough for me to use a separate channel and room mic to record to USB.

What say you?

Use their cell phones

 

[PelliX]

Use their cell phones

Considering that the current generation (no offense to your daughter, KMan) boost the output of a mobile phone with an empty glass, perhaps we should be careful suggesting such techniques...

 

[10kDA]

In similar situations I use a Tascam DR-05 handheld portable recorder, not sure if it's still made, but they probably make a different model name with a few more features and of course more $$$.I paid about $55 as I recall. You have to experiment with placement in the room and settings, but you can get surprisingly good results if all they need is a reference recording in which they can hear everything that's going on. Does not record direct to USB, at least not the model I have which is about 6 years old, but it records to an internal SD card and has a USB cable connection so there's one added step. But clearly an easy and cheap solution.

 

[NickkiC]

Recently I picked up a Zoom H4n PRO
Easy peasy. I record my practice and playing daily, very good for self
analyzing, critique and improving. The bad part is the 2min initializing startup time.

 

[Harlequin tusk]

What NickkC said I have a Zoom Q3 and a Q3 HD, can record at 24 96 24 bit, records onto SD cards, sounds great and can do HD videos also, or choose to just record sound. Can run on batteries or a ac adapter

 

[Dogs of Doom]

the new Zoom models record in 192kHz/32bit which are pretty foolproof, & do not require setting levels, as it's almost impossible to overload... also, if you record too low, you do not get a bunch of noise, turning up the levels...

32-Bit Float: Everything You Need to Know

zoomcorp.com

 

[TheKman76]

But.... the 58A is a dynamic mic that needs no phantom power?

Did I mention I'm a numpty? I thought it was a condenser.

Handheld recorders seem a popular choice. Has anyone used a mid designed to work with a phone before?

 

[PelliX]

Did I mention I'm a numpty? I thought it was a condenser.

No, and that's a harmless mistake. Your Shure dynamic will take 48V up the backside without issues. Do that with a ribbon mic and you made a fatal (generally expensive) mistake.

Condenser: Requires phantom power
Dynamic: Doesn't care about phantom power
Ribbon: Releases the sad dragon on phantom power

(there are exceptions though, just sayin')

Handheld recorders seem a popular choice. Has anyone used a mid designed to work with a phone before?

That is an interesting question. I'd probably sooner go with a Zoom, but I'm curious, too.

 

[TheKman76]

That is an interesting question. I'd probably sooner go with a Zoom, but I'm curious, too.

There seems to be a fair size market aimed at content creators, I expect some of these are really good.

 

[Crikey]

Considering that the current generation (no offense to your daughter, KMan) boost the output of a mobile phone with an empty glass, perhaps we should be careful suggesting such techniques...

not following you
For an easy recording, nothing beats the cellphone.
Obviously its not studio but can easily provide idea how practice sounds

 

[TheKman76]

For an easy recording, nothing beats the cellphone.

Hey, maybe I'm underestimating the average phone and this discussion is pointless!? That's an entirely reasonable position, I wouldn't know any better.

I take it you haven't seen the phone in a large cup or glass to amplify the sound thing? It's a thing.

 

[Crikey]

Hey, maybe I'm underestimating the average phone and this discussion is pointless!? That's an entirely reasonable position, I wouldn't know any better.

I take it you haven't seen the phone in a large cup or glass to amplify the sound thing? It's a thing.

Im sorry, i thought the original post was too “ record” practice. Sorry. Im droppin out.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

this one here, is a little more than the price of a SM57, but is a self contained x/y mic w/ built-in recorder. Just load w/ SD card & you're set... $129

M2 MicTrak | Buy Now

M2 MicTrak 32-Bit Stereo Handheld Recorder

zoomcorp.com

they make 2 more models, w/ more features (more $$$'s), but, if all you need is something to record the room, in a foolproof way, this could be it. You just need to learn mic placement for best balance...

Buy a mic stand, & a good media card, & you're set. You can hook it up to the computer later & download the files & cut it into tracks if you want...

If you want multi-track, you can use your interface & you'll have to buy multiple mic's. You might just buy a bunch of SM57's, stands & cables... You can find drum kit sets that'll knock off a few $$$$'s.

I picked up a bunch of SM57's from a backline shop that was closing down, so, I got them for $65/ea.

I'm not a big SM57 fan, but, they work & are a good general purpose mic. If you can't get a good band sound using all SM57's, it's probably you, not the mic's. You cab do better, but you also can do worse. To get better, you'll also be paying more $$$$$'s.

Not sure how much you really want to invest in this, to record.

I'd probably invest in their musicianship & instruments, as a bit more important... then you can record them as better musicians, w/ better instruments...

But, say, $130 for a mic, plus a few bucks for accessories, will be something w/o investing too much, for this endeavor, if the kids decide to quit tomorrow...

 

[TheKman76]

Zoom have this market cornered, huh?

I'd probably invest in their musicianship & instruments, as a bit more important...

You make a good point, I'm very much in the 'encouragement' phase of the exercise.

The SM57 keeps coming up, I feel like I should just have one of these, just, because.

 

[BlackLabel]

Zoom have this market cornered, huh?



You make a good point, I'm very much in the 'encouragement' phase of the exercise.

The SM57 keeps coming up, I feel like I should just have one of these, just, because.

Here’s the more advanced recording technique that’s still easy to pull off. I‘m not sure of your budget, but here’s what I’d do.

First I’d get a decent mixer that doubles as a recording interface. My choice would be a Tascam Model 12 or something similar. Connect that to your computer via USB and track the each channel in Logic or GarageBand. You connect your powered speakers to the main out on the board.

Run your 58 into the board channel 1 for vocals. Get a 57 and put that on the guitar cab. Run that into channel 2. Get a second 57 and mic the other guitar cab. Run that into channel 3. Make sure your guitar amps are in front of the drums so that you don’t get a ton of bleed into the drum mics. Run the bass directly into channel 4 (or whichever channel has a direct input.) Then mic your drums as follows: put a Shure Beta 52 or similar in the sound hole of the kick drum. Run that into channel 5. Get two condenser mics - doesn’t matter which at this point, just the best you can afford. Put one about 48 inches directly over the snare, pointing straight down. Run this into channel 6. Then put the other one out to the side of the floor tom just about level with it, pointing right back at the snare. It needs to be equidistant from the snare as the other mic above it. Run this one into channel 7. Then get another 57 and put that right over the snare and run it into channel 8. This is the Glyn Johns method of micing drums and it’s been used on thousands of recordings.

Viola! You’ve got 8 decently separated channels of audio that you can mix as you like. You should be able to pull that off relatively inexpensively and you can record live gigs with it just about anywhere.

Good luck!