Scales and licks

[mike sicowitz]

Hi again everyone,
Well it sure sounds to me like we hit a nerve on this topic. This forum is great so we can exchange something important to us all without any name-calling. Hell, we all love our guitars, and music in general so much that we have a need to share our thoughts and personal insights. We would not have those important insights if we all arrived at where we are as musicians the same way. I was playing bars when just a kid and so my memories and teaching approach is sure to be different from someone else. I truely like the idea of the mind's eye, or whatever you want to call it. That's something that we must all share as musicians. You know, it's that idea you have about how to play a riff when you are driving in your car. You can see how to do it in you head and can't wait to get home and try it to make sure. One other point about riffs and such, probably the last point as we have really covered this one--when I listen to Axis Bold As Love, I always hear notes in my head that are not there. Does that make sense, I hope? It's like an important part to a classic piece of music is what's not there. The holes your mind's eye quickly fills up. How do you go about teaching that? I know there are many sayings like 'less is more' and crap like that, but I think it's talent, it is some kind of genius that the rest of us don't have. That's why we can only pretend to play like Hendrix. I could be wrong, I am a lot of the time, but my mind's eye always seems to be drawn toward rests and spacing, in order to set up some closing riff. The great ones all have it. I try not to play too much, but there's even more to it than that. I hope I am explaining this where most understand. Thanks everyone, great forum and well-informed members. Mike Sicowitz

 

[st.bede]

when I listen to Axis Bold As Love, I always hear notes in my head that are not there. Does that make sense, I hope?

How do you go about teaching that?

but my mind's eye always seems to be drawn toward rests and spacing, in order to set up some closing riff.

I hope I am explaining this where most understand. Thanks everyone, great forum and well-informed members. Mike Sicowitz

what you are saying makes a lot of sense....I assume your musicality and individualality are adding notes because it is you....go with it...try to play axis with those extra notes....

that the whole point is to just to be yourself.....

I guess that the one thing that a teacher should do is encourge creativity and exploration....

I tell people to be fearless...I tell them that I make huge mistakes all the time...but, that is part of taking chances..

when I am playing during a lesson and I make a huge mistake I say out lound "what the F was that" so I can go back and point out that when you are taking risks thing will not always gel but, you keep on going...

I point out that even fully trained classical musicians have to improvise a little when they make a blunder...

many times what you do not play is more important that what you do play...it helps to create a story, to create tension...

I tell people to read potery and pay attention to the different puncations..sometimes we need commas (short pause) sometimes we need periods (longer pause)....(and dashes , question marks, ect)

I know how hard it is to want to sound great and impress people but, for me that is not what music is about...I try hard not to let how other people see my music confine me...

the only penalty for making a mistake is...that other musicians will hear it and, the ones who feel fear will judge you...and the ones that are more confrontable with themselves, will remember when they made a mistake and be supportive...



we all have to work through our fears and support each other so we can get beyong the BS and play music (now I have gone crazy and I feel like I am writting a new age book)

as always this is only my linmited understanding and I hope to always learn more

 

[amplifier]

IMHO...no, no, no, no....sorry but I fully disagree...it all has to do with the tonal center or the harmonic overtones (that can be held in the minds eye if not being actulized in the chord [or whatever] that is being played)....it is a bag thing..so if you are thinking say modally the same notes take on a different meaning...

great example is when a rock player plays the typical blues song...they do not sound like a blues player because they are still thinking in RR terms..although the notes might be the same....one reason this happens is because the blues is not in one key...it is so different from "standrad" western music...of course it has become so integrated...

granted this is heavy stuff...

I can dig what you are saying but (IMHO) better to start out with a view of where one is going and like anything get into enjoying the process...NO ONE CAN TOTALLY MASTER MUSIC but, everyone can become better and try not to fall into habbits or cliches

BUT I DO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE RIGHT...that is why it is so important to explane how context works....best way is through playing and having the student hear it for themselves...then I add "this is why X is so powerfull...let's work on getting this bit of X down first"...that way the student becomes open to exploration and developing their individaullity

of course there is a MILLION ways of doing this..and what works for one person might not work for another so, again I acknowldge your wisdom

You misunderstood me. I understand the difference between scales and modes. With personal opinions and semantics aside the math is there. From Major to Locrian the formula FROM Major to Dorian is one degree up all the way back to Locrian to Major when using the same notes. They are all "modal" in that sense, but that wasn't the point I was making. The difference between Rock and Blues IS voicing and technique. Even if you take Harmonic Minor which is just a branch off of Minor, it's variations also follow the one degree up formula... try it yourself you'll see. This is most likely where the formulas for the modes originated. You won't find that in any books, damn I'm good! Take Classical music... we're using the same modalities/tonalities and techniques as hundreds of years ago so why does music sound so different? Voicing and technique! Not to mention the addition of the electric guitar I appriciate your 2 cents but I still think you're overcomplicating things for those not informed. You almost lost me and I already know this stuff!! I think music is much more enjoyable when it's presented in a structured logical way that is easy to understand and digest which isn't how it's presented in traditional teachings. I learned 10 times as much on my own in 1 month than 1 year with my guitar teachers yacking. I think it had more to do with squeezing more payments out of me. Why pay a teacher when you understand it? Ironically your learning conflicts with their monetary interest. It's best to keep students confused I supposed. But who knows maybe some people enjoy the mystisicm of it all. Or maybe I'm just a little more left brained than some. I'm getting off topic... anyway even though Blues has roots in African music it was created and refined in the U.S. and Western music did influence the sound. I even saw a TV program about the history of Blues that made mention of it.

I agree everyone has to learn on their own. A painter won't make a work of art without first learning about brush strokes and how colors work and likewise a guitarist will never compose anything worth while without first learning about his instrument and musical concepts. Everyone has different learning techniques and learning curves. For some (like Hendrix) it comes more naturally but the knowledge is still there regardless.

 

[MogHoz]

Learn the vocal melody to as many songs as you can, on your guitar. Sing or hum along when you play. Do this every day. Learn TV themes or commercials, Xmas carols, everything. Don't critique yourself. Eventually it will start to flow. Gradually speed things up to *guitar solo* speed.

Good luck!

--
MogHoz

 

[big dooley]

mostly i'll play leads in pentatonic minor scales, because they're very listener friendly
pentatonic major is also used and sometimes full minor or major scales, for a bit more diversaty (is this spelled right?)

for lots of different scales, you should check out this link from a dutch website; scroll to the bottom of this page, skipping all the dutch language... then you'll find a scalemachine, which can become very useful for discovering other ways to express yourselves
Popschool Maastricht: Homepage

 

[HOT TUBES 70]

i force myself to practice almost every day , not for long periods ,but a little each day.
and for the first 15 mins of each day , i try to practice chords and scales that you would
not normally play , say some country licks , then some jazz chords , then pick a mode and play some scales , diminished scales etc. improvisation is very important !!!!!

thats my 2 pennies.