TSL60 Head: flaws, upgrade and setting advice please

[growboxguy]

I just ordered a used JCM2000 TSL60 watt head and have a few questions:


1. What are the weaknesses with this head? Anything to look for? I have browsed the forum and I see early models have weak parts, how do I figure out the year of my head and what parts I might need?

2. What is the deal with the fx loop? I hear it is not as good as the TSL100, true or no?

3. Are there any gains in tone and/or reliability to be made by upgrading the transformer? If so what do you recommend?

4. Are there any of the features that shouldn't be used on the TSL60? Any of them that hurt the tone more than help?

5. I play mainly heavier new rock type music, what baseline settings would you recommend? (I am running a 1960AV 412 cab and normally play my PRS CE22 with Metal pickups)

6. It appears this head is super easy to bias. My local shop of course said if I bias it myself my tube life will be shortened, is this true? What could they do better?

I have all new tubes coming, they should be here (and my head!) by the middle of next week. I picked up this combo of tubes based on Martystrat54's recommendations...

V1 Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG+ Balanced
V2 Mullard 12AX7 RI Balanced/Hi Gain
V3 JJ ECC83S unbalanced
V4 (PI) TAD ECC-83WA unbalanced

Power Tubes: Electro Harmonix 6CA7EH


Any input and recommendations will be greatly appreciated, thanks so much!

 

[MartyStrat54]

Well I'm hoping that tube line up will make an improvement for you. As I said, you can roll the Ruby, Mullard and TAD to see if you like a different line up.

1.Your year model is the first four numbers on your serial number. It should be M-2004 or something similar. The only weakness is the shared EQ on the green and yellow channels. The TSL100 has separate EQ's for each channel. All 2000 Series amps had issues. If you have a later production head, you should be okay.

2.The FX loop works okay for me, but I really don't use any time based pedals with my 602. Some people have complained they are noisy, but I don't have that issue. I believe the FX loop is the same in the TSL60 and 100.

3.The TSL60 is a very nice head and should lend itself well to your style of music. I will say that I feel the transformers are just adequate. If I was still a gigging musician and was using a TSL60 I would probably change the OPT first and the PT second. You will notice a tone change by putting in an upgraded OPT.

4.The TSL is all about experimenting. When I got my TSL122 in 2004, I spent a few days messing around with everything. You have to spend some time finding your favorite settings on each channel.

5.As I said, the TSL has a more modern voicing than the DSL. It should work well with what you play.

6.Your shop is pulling your leg. They made these amps easy to bias for a reason. I wouldn't go by the published Marshall max bias. I feel that it is too hot and can make the amp sound harsh. I run my TSL's at 65 percent. IIRC it is around 35mA per tube or 70mA per pair. I would seriously have to question your tech's advice.

 

[chee16]

Those tubes look like a good start

The fx loop is o nly parallel, whereas with the tsl100 if you max the level it becomes series. I don't use the fx loop much so can't give a good reason for liking either.

I have read up a lot on the trnsformers, the OT is definitely the first step, even a choke if you are playing loud a lot.

Most people don't bother with the deep and shift buttons. I'm one of those guys, but like Marty said you need to spend some time dialing in the eq. The tsl is not an amp to dime everything and blast the volume.

I think it is well suited to your style of music, though you might want to look into el34 power tubes to try out in the future also.

cheers!

 

[RickyLee]

I took my modified TSL100 over to a friend's jam quite some time ago. My friend has a TSL60 head. I played through his TSL60 into my G12-65 2X12 to check it out. Then I switched over to my TSL100 head. It made me appreciate my TSL100 even more and realize that I had made some awesome sonic improvements on my TSL100. Maybe the big and easy improvement was the 3H choke I put in it. It still had the stock output transformer in it at that time, but it had an upgraded Classic Tone power transformer.

BUT, I can tell you that the shining channel on the TSL60 is its Clean channel. I like it better than the TSL100 and my DSL100 Clean channel. The TSL60 has many different circuit designs underneath compared to the TSL100 and DSL100. The main one is the TSL60 Clean channel uses one less gain stage than the TSL100 Clean channel.

And the TSL60 Clean channel takes Boost/Dirt pedals up front much better than the TSL100 and DSL100. But I think the Crunch and Lead channel on that TSL60 could be helped out by lowering the value of the HUGE cathode bypass cap on the first gain stage. But then, that will affect the Clean channel giving it less bottom end. Maybe that could be remedied by increasing the Bass setting on the Clean channel EQ?

My buds band at that time had a guitarist using his TSL60. They were playing more of a Stevie Ray Vaughan type blues set. That guitarist was capturing an awesome SRV tone running a Tube Screamer pedal into that TSL60 Clean channel.

 

[SkinnyJ]

As a former TSL-60 owner, I will say the three things I didn't like about the amp:

1) There wasn't enough head room on the clean channel. It doesn't have a master volume like the other channels, so if you need to crank that channel, it will drive after a certain volume.

2) I hated the parallel FX loop. The TSL-100 will go to series mode when you put the FX mix on 10. The '60 does not have this feature. My time FX never seemed to cut through and you can't use the loop for boosting.

3) It had the hardest time cutting through a mix. When I got my 4104 combo, I was amazed at how easily I could be heard in the mix after my experiences with the '60.

The one thing I did like... The second channel was awesome. It had a nice crunch sound.

These are my opinions and observations. Your mileage may vary...

 

[Kid Klash]

There's a pretty good description of how to do a 100 TSL bias adjustment at the end of this thread... it should be the same for you, except it's just one pair of EL34's (I think...)

I just couldn't resist... JCM2000 TSL122 needing love... - Fender® Squier® Guitar and Bass Forum

 

[dreyn77]

lots of varied suggestions@MF.

I'd put all pedals in the loop.
two different setting methods, one is all EQ dials at the same setting. or dial to taste with specific vintage pickups.

use the scoop/ deep switch for low volume playing. this is where these amps shine like no other marshall. totally misunderstood features!
don't be afraid to turn all dials to near zero!
you'll be supprised at how quiet these things can be and still get a great sound!
ALL problems should have been sorted out by now! it is at least 10 years old!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sullimd]

I have the TSL100 and am loving it, being a former DSL user for years. Having the 3 channels is great. The crunch channel is where I live most of the time. Gain around half, and you get a great rock/800-with-pedal-ish tone. More modern than an 800 but its in the ballpark. If I do switch to the higher gain channel, I keep the gain around noon there too, and again, its a great modern hard rock tone. It can get into metal territory easily, but thats not my thing all the time. I use a SD-1 as needed just for a tad extra fullness.

I don't use an FX loop, never have, so I can't comment there. I personally wouldn't worry so much BEFORE you even get the thing! You can worry yourself to death by reading all the horror stories on these forums. Transformer this, heat that, bad Marshall design, etc etc. Just play the thing. The DSL/TSL line was the best selling Marshall amp in history as far as numbers go, so statistically you may have more people with issue. I've owned 4-5 DSLs and now a TSL, and never had a single issue with any of them. Ever.

 

[TSL60Rocker]

I have the TSL100 and am loving it, being a former DSL user for years. Having the 3 channels is great. The crunch channel is where I live most of the time. Gain around half, and you get a great rock/800-with-pedal-ish tone. More modern than an 800 but its in the ballpark. If I do switch to the higher gain channel, I keep the gain around noon there too, and again, its a great modern hard rock tone. It can get into metal territory easily, but thats not my thing all the time. I use a SD-1 as needed just for a tad extra fullness.

I don't use an FX loop, never have, so I can't comment there. I personally wouldn't worry so much BEFORE you even get the thing! You can worry yourself to death by reading all the horror stories on these forums. Transformer this, heat that, bad Marshall design, etc etc. Just play the thing. The DSL/TSL line was the best selling Marshall amp in history as far as numbers go, so statistically you may have more people with issue. I've owned 4-5 DSLs and now a TSL, and never had a single issue with any of them. Ever.

Agree with this. I have a TSL60 head and cab that I bought new in 2003. I have never had any issues with it. I did have it properly set up by an amp guy in Philly (biasing and whatever) but that was before I actually knew what bias was. This amp rocks. From great cleans to ripping overdrive. I use the 3rd channel for solos only. I run my master about 3/4s of the way and then bring the rest up to a good volume. Usually mid way. Then I have a little extra room if I need it and I can get a better clean sound out of it and the overdrive isnt quite saturated yet. Real nice.

Play it first. These amps have a bad rep but personally I have not been able to replace it. Tried, Orange, Mesas and the new JVM and they just didnt give me what the TSL could. Good Luck.

 

[JimiRules]

I run my TSL60 similar to how I run my YJM. I set the crunch channel to where its right on the edge of breakup. If I pick light its fairly clean. If I dig in then it has some grit. Then use a Bad Bob clean boost to send it into overdrive. I have a keeley BD2 and a Boss SD1 set up as clean boosts that I will use on top of that for leads.

 

[growboxguy]

Well my JCM is for sale and I purchased a JVM210H lol

 

[diesect20022000]

the TSL 60 i had only had average cleans at best but the 100 is much better there. the crunch channel's where it shines and i like the verb as well. using a boost with the crunch channel yielded some fantastic recorded tones for me. i used it for lead and a 5150 for rhythm. i had zero issues cutting through a mix. i had mine a LITTLE hotter than Marty's at 38ma per side and i biased it myself and only changed the tubes once in the 2 years i owned it with ZERO issues. the tech just wants your money and frankly there's nothing wrong with business but that's dishonest and i would find a new shop and tech. if you bias it properly you will have no worse luck with tubes than anyone else it's not voodoo it's science. now you could get FAULTY tubes, tubes are touchy little glass bottles so the cp are likely to be hit and miss, nos is better luck (and marty's got you covered in spades if you need a trustworthy tube source especially NOS) but not required either. if you want nos i would go preamp tubes with the TSL and just go CP for power tubes. i found the EH 6CA7 to suit that amp and my tastes best FOR that amp. i do like the DSL better.

reliability CAN be a problem with SOME of them but if it's not had problems it should be fine.
i think Marty pretty well steered you in the right direction all the way. if you don't like it it will sell. i'm on the market right now for (in order) a DSL100H, a DSL100 MLB or a standard 04 or newer DSL UK head probably a 50 if i get the original variant though and lastly a 900 (one amp only but these are the three series i'm looking at again) now i would prefer the 2500 MKIII most but the 2500 SL-X EL34 model is a close second (tie really. same amp just one has tube "sensitivity/gain knob and the other is diode like a tube screamer which actually sounds great for that hair metal bite and teeth.) or the 4500 DR which eas my first marshall amp (the first i USED was a JMP 50 watt head with a strat and hotrails pickup) and though people LOVE to hate the DR i like it a LOT. i actually really like the much maligned B channel. no boost needed as it's VERY bright and tight.

so those are the three i'm looking at: DSL (H, mlb or 50 watt post 04 model) TSL (same in the year regards TSL 100 or 60H and lastly theJCM 900. 50 watt prefered and models matter but any will DO in a pinch.)


anyway the TSL is a great amp but it can be weird to dial in. it's not intuitive like most (most have a pretty weak eq curve and just sound GOOD lol but the TSL is more responsive. i tended to have mine on crunch set with the mids at 6, bass at 5 and treble 7 and boosted it for my LEADS. i would boost the lead channel and dial the bass back and gain back on teh lead channel for RHYTHM. so i operated with the clean channel as a crunch and "guitar knob use channel/like a single channel amp where you use your guitars knobs, then i would use the boosted dcrunch yellow channel for leads (it's just better for lead imho) and the lead boosted for rhythm. the lead channel's a bit darker and more compressed which for ME as a shred and metal guy sits better in the mix as my RHYTHM sound. the brighter tone is most ASSUREDLY going to be my solo tone near EVERY TIME.











again Marty nailed it but i would make sure there's no bias drift or anything. some of the early (98 ish year) models had some boards that got revised later on. also if you plan on using an 8ohm cab you're going to want to do the "ground mod" which is literally just soldering a lead over the terminals or across the board where the terminals are soldered on. i have pix from a friend if you decide to do all that.

 

[loveboat]

One big weakness or flaw with the amp is the construction of the footswitch input. The DIN tends to get intermittent connection failures. My amp has this issue, and from what I heard, it's quite common.

What happens is that if you ever putt on the cable in an angle, for example if you trip or step on it. The small sockets for the DIN pins get too big and after that some buttons on the FS won't work.

It also appears that the connector is only held in place my the PBC, not mounted to the chassi. And is a pain to fix.

 

[TSL60Rocker]

I just ordered male and female DIN connectors to be able to disconnect my footswitch. I have all my cables in one big shrink tube. Basically looks like a snake. Efx return cables 1in 1 out, amp in from pedals and footswitch. Problem is the TSL footswitch is hard connected to the cable. I plan on splicing in male/female connectors. We'll see what happens.