What is the point, if you can't use it?

[ItsChrispyTv]

Recently my guitar teacher was telling about amps hes owned and what hes sold. Hes currently selling a lovely 1969 original jmp plexi not sure what model but old school style. When i asked him why he said because you just can't use it even when its 50 watts. Hes only ever gone to 2 before he blows his ears out. Now i thought well thats expected because its a plexi but then hes telling about his jcm 800's and other amps and all of them he sold because they're to damn loud. Now correct me if im wrong but if you gonna buy an amp your gonna wanna use some distortion from it? He said its all nice and ok if your playing stadiums but in smaller-medium clubs in near impossible. Well i wanna know how i could use a jcm 800 or any amp for that matter? i mean back in the days of guns n roses, yeah slash fan boy right here. They just played smaller clubs like the roxy and troubador and would crank those 800's and plexis right there right then??? how the hell did they do it?? there was no attenuators then?? or atleast not very good ones
Cheers in advance

 

[Adwex]

I guess your teacher never heard of an attenuator.

 

[Purgasound]

If it's too loud you're too old.

That dude was probably in a cover band or something. Every bar/club/stage I play on the Marshall gets cranked. Unless you're playing to a geriatric crowd it should be loud. You're not supposed to be able to hold conversations in front of the stage. I'll never understand the mentality.

I wear earplugs when I rehearse standing directly in front of a full stack. It may be possible to wear them on stage too...

Soundguys at shows just need to be willing to crank that PA. A rock and roll show should be loud. A Marshall should be loud! I've never been to one yet that I couldn't handle. Again, you can wear earplugs. Even at a show where the volume is quite moderate earplugs can reduce the amount of excess noise bouncing off of different material walls that can make the sound coming from the stage seem more together. FWIW

 

[Clammy]

I've run 100w full stacks in everything from 50 capacity rooms to outdoor stadiums. Nothing sounds like a 100w full stack cranked up!

Cheers!

 

[Moose Coghill]

Agree with him. Let him know how right he is, and just how useless that 50 watter is in this day and age.

Then lowball the hell out of him and buy it. Crank it to the nines 'till it's quittin' time!

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

I guess your teacher never heard of an attenuator.

+1

 

[spacerocker]

Aside from all the macho rhetoric, I think the guy is basically right (at least as far as small-medium venues are concerned)

We can all crank the hell out of our amps, completely drown out the drummer, and look like complete ****s, but that's not what it's all about.

I used to have my 2203 on about 2-3 on the master at gigs, and that was seriously loud! My JVM ends up around 4-5 on the masters. Any louder than that, and you lose the drums and vocals!

Also, what seems right to me (standing 5ft infront of my 1936 cabs) will be stripping the paint off the walls 20ft away!

However, I do think the JCMs and the like are still usable, adn sound good , even with the volume at 2-3.

 

[diesect20022000]

you also have to keep in mind most of these amps were meant to run clean power or retain headroom which was why they were higher wattage. people LIKE them cranked to GET power tube compression and so on but, most amps early on weren't meant to be in distortion mode from the preamp AND power amp. the master volume was added as a compensation then a second as the "need" for preamp gain arose but, that wasn't the intention of the designs originaly. Guitarists fell in love with an amp being pushed hard because it added compression/sustain or would "sing" and that got amp makers adding gain stages. They started cranking them up because of crap sound systems,then realised they got some nice overdrive (see the name says it all, OVERDRIVE.) and so on. bottom line is he's right AND wrong. It all depends on the buyer and purpose but, aside from using an attenuator if he wants the cranked Marshall plexi tone then he has that option but, if you're looking for distortion just get an amp with a hi gain preamp. That said, a plexi is a beautiful thing cranked, those amps really sound great and yeah...i'd get an attenuator or move back to the dirt road and wear ear plugs.

 

[willwallner]

I love this thread. I play those clubs you mentioned on a regular basis - just played the whiskey a gogo on sunday. Anyone who says you can't use an old tube marshall in small venues cos its too loud doesn't know what they're talking about. And no you don't need an attenuator. I crank my 2204's all the time and it sounds awesome. If the sound guy asks you to turn your amp down simply tell him to learn how to do the job. Do you think Zakk turned down his JCM 800's at the Roxy when he played there a few months ago? The problem is sound guys today don't know how to handle a loud amp cos they're used to most players using modern stuff which is too quiet. They think they have to keep the stage volume down to a minimum to have maximum control over the sound. Sounds good in theory but to me bands who do that sound weak and the guitars ALWAYS get lost in the mix particularly when with the solos. Check out this vid

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYDBVIdb9Mc]YouTube - Clique - You Got Another Thing Coming[/ame]

Thats at the House of Blues in Anaheim which is pretty small. My 2204 is cranked and you can still hear all the other guys but more importantly you can hear me crystal clear during the solos - just my 2 cents (or 2 pence)

 

[TwinACStacks]

Fantastic as always Will, that lead tone kills.(not to mention the playing).

TWIN

 

[blues_n_cues]

i crank mine on a daily basis-screw the drummer.
but then again i own the p.a. so everyone gets mic'd & they can turn up or down as needed.
that being said, there's a few options if you're too loud.

1) you can get the isolation screen like joe bonamassa uses
2) you can angle your cab away from the front of the stage
3) everyone else can just deal w/ it.

 

[darrylportelli]

I love this thread. I play those clubs you mentioned on a regular basis - just played the whiskey a gogo on sunday. Anyone who says you can't use an old tube marshall in small venues cos its too loud doesn't know what they're talking about. And no you don't need an attenuator. I crank my 2204's all the time and it sounds awesome. If the sound guy asks you to turn your amp down simply tell him to learn how to do the job. Do you think Zakk turned down his JCM 800's at the Roxy when he played there a few months ago? The problem is sound guys today don't know how to handle a loud amp cos they're used to most players using modern stuff which is too quiet. They think they have to keep the stage volume down to a minimum to have maximum control over the sound. Sounds good in theory but to me bands who do that sound weak and the guitars ALWAYS get lost in the mix particularly when with the solos. Check out this vid

YouTube - Clique - You Got Another Thing Coming

Thats at the House of Blues in Anaheim which is pretty small. My 2204 is cranked and you can still hear all the other guys but more importantly you can hear me crystal clear during the solos - just my 2 cents (or 2 pence)

youre saying that thats a small stage??? you should see the one we played on last sunday!!!! I had my 800 on 2-3 max!!! the rest of the band complain its too damn loud (the drummer is the ony one that doesnt seem to complain) what the hell does a guy have to do do crank it??!?!?!?

 

[Moose Coghill]

Great jams, Will. Yeah!

 

[Lespaulnmarshall]

I love this thread. I play those clubs you mentioned on a regular basis - just played the whiskey a gogo on sunday. Anyone who says you can't use an old tube marshall in small venues cos its too loud doesn't know what they're talking about. And no you don't need an attenuator. I crank my 2204's all the time and it sounds awesome. If the sound guy asks you to turn your amp down simply tell him to learn how to do the job. Do you think Zakk turned down his JCM 800's at the Roxy when he played there a few months ago? The problem is sound guys today don't know how to handle a loud amp cos they're used to most players using modern stuff which is too quiet. They think they have to keep the stage volume down to a minimum to have maximum control over the sound. Sounds good in theory but to me bands who do that sound weak and the guitars ALWAYS get lost in the mix particularly when with the solos. Check out this vid

YouTube - Clique - You Got Another Thing Coming

Thats at the House of Blues in Anaheim which is pretty small. My 2204 is cranked and you can still hear all the other guys but more importantly you can hear me crystal clear during the solos - just my 2 cents (or 2 pence)

Clique fan over here!!

------------------------------------------------

At the OP, tell your teacher about plexi glass baffles like Joe bonamassa is using.

BTW, Slash always cranked his amps, so did Jimi Hendrix. When Jimi was in Holland back in the 60's he was at some sort of studio with a comedy club in the basement for band rehersal. Some dude gave lessons in the comedy club, while Jimi was rehersing with his band. Jimi cranked 3 of his superlead stacks and he started playing Purple haze. Things fell off the walls in the comedy club. The guy that gave lessons in the club opend the door of the studio and told Jimi to turn it down. Jimi got angry, he screamed "fuck" a few times and jimi stoped playing. When the show started, the director told the camera men to focus on Jimi's head when he would play the guitar with his teeth. Everybody was excited. Jimi only played two songs and then he stoped, he didn't even play with his teeth. The director was furious.

 

[bodhi2600]

just smile and nod, and get your checkbook out!

 

[custom53]

They were freaking loud....! If you have never seen great bands in small clubs then you have never heard LOUD before....!

I saw The Screaming Cheeta Wheelies in a very small club once... The stool I was sitting on was literally vibrating across the floor...!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhZLDDdfdvk[/ame]

I saw the Bullet Boys early on in a small club... My ears were bleeding...!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqxaCG9PBOs[/ame]

I read an interview with Mitch Mitchell about recording with Hendrix. He said Hendrix used stage volumes in the studio... Would have loved to been there....

 

[core]

You gotta look at it this way. If you get the amp or a set up like it and have to practice at home sometimes then you'll have to get used to the sound of it low volume and use a pedal to get you where you want it. It all changes when at stage volume and you will set your controls differently. On my 77 JMP 2204 I set the preamp at 7.5, for practice the pedal gets used more. At stage volume the preamp stays but the MV gets cranked. Luckily I don't have to change the EQ, I've just gotten used to keeping it all around mid point and it seems too work fine. Other amps will react differently. Once you get there you'll see.

 

[Wycked Lester]

I have used a JCM 800 2203 with either one or two cabinets on anywhere from 1-4 gigs a week for the last 25 years. I usually run my master vol between 2 1/2 - 4 ....and i MIC it thru the pa too....along with each drum, overhead mics,...ect...EVERYTHING mic'ed.

.....I've been doing it that way since 1985

 

[custom53]

I have used a JCM 800 2203 with either one or two cabinets on anywhere from 1-4 gigs a week for the last 25 years. I usually run my master vol between 2 1/2 - 4 ....and i MIC it thru the pa too....along with each drum, overhead mics,...ect...EVERYTHING mic'ed.

.....I've been doing it that way since 1985

Exactly... If you want to hear "background noise" or "lounge music" go to the Holiday Inn....

 

[Lespaulnmarshall]

They were freaking loud....! If you have never seen great bands in small clubs then you have never heard LOUD before....!

I saw The Screaming Cheeta Wheelies in a very small club once... The stool I was sitting on was literally vibrating across the floor...!

YouTube - Shakin' The Blues - SCW

I saw the Bullet Boys early on in a small club... My ears were bleeding...!

YouTube - Bulletboys - For The Love Of Money (Video)

I read an interview with Mitch Mitchell about recording with Hendrix. He said Hendrix used stage volumes in the studio... Would have loved to been there....

In my previous post in this thread I posted something about Hendrix and his rehersal volumes.