What is "Vintage"?

[GIBSON67]

Were do SG's fit in this mold...are all 60's models are vintage?

How about Tweed Fenders, Brownface Fenders, Blackface Fenders, SIlverface Fenders?

Mesa Boogie's were never made in the 60's, so none of them are vintage?

Does it have to be original to be vintage?


My thoughts are that items that are iconic and represent an era are considered vintage.

 

[zslane]

Vintage originally referred to the year a wine (or its grapes) was produced. A good vintage was simply a good year/crop for a wine. Slowly, the concept of "good vintage" morphed into the adjective "vintage", and generally refered to any year of production widely regarded as having yielded high quality. However, once nostalgia became an industry, the word got slapped on anything even remotely collectible that was no longer in production in its original form.

At this point, the term vintage means whatever you want it to mean. It has no precise definition.

 

[zenfly]

Me...

 

[Goes211]

Vintage originally referred to the year a wine (or its grapes) was produced. A good vintage was simply a good year/crop for a wine. Slowly, the concept of "good vintage" morphed into the adjective "vintage", and generally refered to any year of production widely regarded as having yielded high quality. However, once nostalgia became an industry, the word got slapped on anything even remotely collectible that was no longer in production in its original form.

At this point, the term vintage means whatever you want it to mean. It has no precise definition.

I think I agree with this. It means whatever it means to you.

And it allows you to add at least 60% to your asking price

 

[Vinsanitizer]

I don't think many if any modern era Gibson's or any other mass produced guitars will have any significant increase in value.

Just due to the sheer numbers. It's not like 58-59-60s models where there were limited quantities made.

They will just be old collectibles.

And not rare.

Amen.

 

[Vinsanitizer]

• Were do SG's fit in this mold; are all 60's models vintage? Yes
  
• How about Tweed Fenders, Brownface Fenders, Blackface Fenders and Silverface Fenders? If they were made prior to 1970, then Yes.
  
• Mesa Boogie's were never made in the 60's, so none of them are vintage? Correct
• Does it have to be original to be vintage? Yes
  
• My thoughts are that items which are iconic and represent an era, are considered vintage. Correct, although it is extremely uncommon for this to be the case after 1969.

(Replies above.)

 

[Vinsanitizer]

I think I agree with this. It means whatever it means to you.

And it allows you to add at least 60% to your asking price

60%...?

Come to think of it, my 2010 and 2011 vintage Les Pauls just went up for for sale @ $3,520 ea. PM me for details.

 

[johnfv]

It does make me wonder if anything made after 1969 will ever get the level of respect the earlier stuff does. I've mentioned before that even in the '70s we knew that guitars that were only 10 - 15 years old were special. We are a bit more forgiving with the Marshalls, we still get excited about the '70s models for example. I've seen some comments that suggest some people think "vintage" is mostly hype. While I agree the prices are totally exaggerated, if you actually play some of these great guitars and amps from the late '50s and early '60s you would appreciate how magic they can be.

 

[Vinsanitizer]

ible vs able:

That old rocking chair is a rare collectible.
That old rocking chair is highly collectable.

 

[Vinsanitizer]

It does make me wonder if anything made after 1969 will ever get the level of respect the earlier stuff does. I've mentioned before that even in the '70s we knew that guitars that were only 10 - 15 years old were special. We are a bit more forgiving with the Marshalls, we still get excited about the '70s models for example. I've seen some comments that suggest some people think "vintage" is mostly hype. While I agree the prices are totally exaggerated, if you actually play some of these great guitars and amps from the late '50s and early '60s you would appreciate how magic they can be.

That is a fabulous stament, johnfv!

By 1978 it was common knowlege that old sunburst Les Pauls were important. But there's a lot to that fact (my dates are inaccurate, but you get the gist):

Les Pauls were discontinued in, what, 1960? But by the early '70s dudes like Clapton, Beck and Page were using them to power Blues Rock because of the tone and because nobody wanted them and they were cheap. So as their music became more popular and the photos began to circulate, everyone started buying up the Les Pauls.

After several years Les Paul became hard to find because they were out of production. Because of the newfound demand, Gibson started reproducing them again in the early '70s. Except word quickly began to spread that these new models weren't made the same as the old ones, as much of the old machinery and blueprints had been dismantled and/or discarded. They were heavy, not of the same spec's and materials, and had poor quality control to the point where they were sometimes unplayable off the rack. But most notably, they didn't sound the same as the old ones. So, players began seeking out the old Les Pauls again, and offering higher prices for the ones they found due to the desirability.

After the Norlin era, Gibson caught wind that players were displeased with the quality, and began putting much more effort into build quality and design accuracy by the 1980s. This resulted in the Les Paul Standard, which was a modern revision of the late '50s Les Pauls, and became the new defacto "standard". They were making them fairly decent by the early '80s, and they now began to appeal to a new generation of young players who didn't know much about the old guitars. back then the old Les Pauls weren't documented, there were no glassy photos or books like today. However, the LP Standard still lacked the tone, character and spec accuracy of those older models. So the demand for those '50s Les Pauls increased even more and the price went up. Now, a few stories began to proliferate, like the one about the lady who found her son's 1958 Les Paul in the attic, still with all the hang tags, etc. after the kid went to college or died in Vietnam, etc. Stories how that 30-some year old guitar was now worth thousands of dollars.

So by the mid '80s Gibson catches onto this and says, "hey - let's make those old guitars again the same way we made 'em back in the day, and sell them for about the same price collectors would pay". And what perfect timing, because many young players from the early '80s are now doctors and lawyers and can afford to play whatever the cost for the guitar they've lusted for since childhood.

And there you have it - the whole thing gets fueled by some rare instruments and great stories. The whole 1950s carries with it a panoramic idea of early Americana. Sinatra and Martin at the Stardust Theater to Elvis to the Beetles to Hendrix to Led Zeppelin to the mega stars of Arena Rock. If it weren't for the '50s Gibson Les Paul models, the whole entire music industry would be a lot different than it is today.

THE END

 

[AdamR]

30 years old... or more.

I agree with this. However guys with 60s and 70s gear dont want to consider 80s stuff as vintage or classic because it doesnt bring the money that their older stuff does.

Ive been restoring muscle cars since I was 18 (mid 90s) back then you could pick up a Dart, Duster or early 67-69 Barracuda for nothing because they were as popular as Road Runners, Chargers and 70-71 Cudas. Now even the 73-74 are desirable. Hell look at the prices of late 70s Trans Ams, $20-30K Even 80s Irocs and Mustangs are in the 10-12K range for good clean ones.

While 80s MIJ Fenders and Les Pauls may not be worth what the 60s and 70s stuff is it will climb in value as younger guys start looking for "vintrage" instruments or stuff from their past.

 

[blues_n_cues]

30 years old... or more.

this,unless you're on ebay or Craigslist.

 

[scat7s]

this,unless you're on ebay or Craigslist.

yeah, i was going to say, some dipshits advertise their late 80's/early 90's gear as vintage....

not yet...

 

[blues_n_cues]

yeah, i was going to say, some dipshits advertise their late 80's/early 90's gear as vintage....

not yet...

it's not entirely their fault. when I started hearing Motley Crue & Poison on the classic rock stations I had to say WTF..I'm not THAT old yet.

 

[TwinACStacks]

ANYTHING around my age.

VINTAGE.

TWIN