What Makes My Basketweave Cabinet Sound Different.

[Trapland]

Lately I’ve been compari my 68-69 basketweave cab with my 78-79 small checkerboard Cabinet, both A style. Now obvious;y they have different constructi0n points, and the back panel on the,later cab is partical board while the 68 cab is plywood.

So what makes them sound SO SOdifferent? The 68 is louder, seems much closer to me and accentuates the mids and upper mids. The check cab seems more scooped, less present and with a much bigger bottom. Given the same quad of speakers, what is it that changes the sound so much?

 

[boola1]

Lately I’ve been compari my 68-69 basketweave cab with my 78-79 small checkerboard Cabinet, both A style. Now obvious;y they have different constructi0n points, and the back panel on the,later cab is partical board while the 68 cab is plywood.

So what makes them sound SO SOdifferent? The 68 is louder, seems much closer to me and accentuates the mids and upper mids. The check cab seems more scooped, less present and with a much bigger bottom. Given the same quad of speakers, what is it that changes the sound so much?

My 70s cab and my 60s cab are the complete opposite. Much more mids from the 70s cab. Again, both cabs running exactly the same speakers.

I once had a different 70s that I just didn't like. No matter what speakers were in it, it had a dead, sterile tone.

Small differences add up, just like with guitars, meaning that no 2 are alike.

 

[BygoneTones]

I agree "the small differences just add up".

There are the obvious differences in the construction and grill materials etc like you say, but with vintage gear you also need to take into account the history of it. How the wood and grill material has aged and how well it has been looked after etc. Might sound laughable but it all plays a part, good or bad.

Vintage speakers that are in theory "the same" will also sound different depending on the condition of them and how they have aged over the years, especially the cones - remember they are only paper and will absorb moisture and smoke etc in the atmosphere over the decades. Unless you mean literally the same quad moved into different cabs.

 

[Geeze]

Unless you mean literally the same quad moved into different cabs.

This! Same day, same room, etc. Otherwise it's not an accurate comparison.

Russ

 

[Trapland]

..... Given the same quad of speakers, ......

Same amp, same guitar, same cord, same underwear.

Yes the exact same speakers, in the same positions. Not just the same model (I have 3 quads of g12-65s for instance). I’ve done the change.

I was just wonder what about the construction of the cab could have such a profound effect. Grill cloth, maybe, more likely with pinstripe than anything else and I don’t have pinstripe. The plywood back? What else?

Some of you guys like @BygoneTones @pleximaster @neikeel @soundboy57 and others know vintage cabinet construction down to the finest detail. What were the major construction changes from say 68-69 to 78-79? Plywood thickness? Different plywood material? Extra braces? And in your opinions, which of these effect tone the most?

 

[Dogs of Doom]

the '68 has a plywood back? The plywood projects a livelier upper midrange, while the MDF tames it down...

 

[gjohnson]

Different grill cloth w/slightly make same speaks sound diff.

 

[soundboy57]

Lots of changes between 68 and 78, so here are the main differences, leaving out the time frames, etc.

Same thickness of birch ply, but the old ones are heavier, IME.

By 1978, they had removed the vertical brace on the slant baffle, went from 2x4
center brace to a 2x2, removed any reinforcement bracing at the bottom inside of the baffle,
and went to a chipboard back panel.

They went from metal handles with T nuts, to plastic handles with rivets (that can rattle, vibrate and buzz).

Any one of those things effects vibration, clarity and tone...

Just the difference between 68-71 basketweave grill and 78 check grill is night and day by itself.

Personally, I like them all with clear, lively speakers

I will also add that Marshall, Gibson, and Fender, all had cheapened product lines during the 70's.

Just a well known fact. Cutting corners to stay alive in a more and more slow economy by the late 70's.

All three started to up their game dramatically, in my opinion, by the 80's and 90's.

I don't like to bash succesful companies, they did what they did during tough times to keep a product going out the door.
And there are good examples from all three during that period.

I wouldn't trade my 90's Gibson reissues for anything made in the 70's.
Or a modern Strat for a 3 bolt neck strat from the period (at twice the price).

Marshall, although cutting down on trim and bracing, still made a helluva good amp throughout that period.

My two cents.

 

[BygoneTones]

I think a lot of it was due to competition from rival brands that emerged during the 70's. Same with Gibson and Fender. They dominated the market early on when they were the pioneering brands, but then they struggled later when loads of other companies wanted a piece, and they had to cut production costs.

 

[soundboy57]

I also left out the fact....that sometime in the early 70's. they stopped gluing and screwing the center post to the baffle..later center posts
were simply held in place by a couple of staples
That has to have an effect on clarity at any volume.

Bygone is prolly right too...there was a lot of money spent on other brands in the 70's in the US alone.
Peavey started up in the 70's, and love them or not, they sold a heck of a lot of product..I had a fair amount,
and everyone else I knew, as well. The UK had many other brands.

Marshall was EXPENSIVE in the mid 70's...
It was more than $500 for each piece of a stack, so $1500.
That was like $5K-$6K today.
I finally sold enough 8 tracks, Peavey and Fender stuff, and saved up enough from work, to buy a used 50 watt half
stack in 1977 or so....and that included a "Big M" cabinet, LOL.

 

[Trapland]

Someday I’d like to learn more about Big M’s. I’ve seen 2 and played through one. But not today.

@soundboy57 I never noticed the post was glued. Makes sense that would affect vibrations as it should at least help transfer back panel vibes to the front baffle better. Also might do less damping of the baffle.

I wonder if the missing vertical brace along with the 2x2 smaller post allowed the baffle to resonate more lows as closer to a single piece, while the particle board rear panel damped more mids and highs?

The BW vs CB grill surprises me as far as coloration. I would have thought they covered about the same, but I’m just guessing.

the '68 has a plywood back? The plywood projects a livelier upper midrange, while the MDF tames it down...

. I’ll bet your right. My 2 otherwise identical cabinets, even with the same quad of speakers sound very different with the plywood back one being much brighter with pronounced upper mids and having a presence that makes it just seem right next to you while the other seems in the next room. I like the 68 better.

Anyone ever compared the same cabinet but with one with all the tolex stripped? WOW. What a difference in hi-mids and sparkle!

 

[boola1]

the '68 has a plywood back? The plywood projects a livelier upper midrange, while the MDF tames it down...

. I’ll bet your right. My 2 otherwise identical cabinets, even with the same quad of speakers sound very different with the plywood back one being much brighter with pronounced upper mids and having a presence that makes it just seem right next to you while the other seems in the next room. I like the 68 better.

You are agreeing with a comment that isn't even applicable to you. Your 70s cab does not have an MDF back.

You can test it yourself. Swap the backs on your cabs and see what affect it has.

 

[79 2203]

When my 77 slant had 4 55hz Blackback 30 watters (2 blew so I put 2 V30's in) it was much louder than my 68 straight with pre Rola '20' watters. It also had more tops and bottom where the 68 is more midrangey.

 

[Trapland]

You are agreeing with a comment that isn't even applicable to you. Your 70s cab does not have an MDF back.

You can test it yourself. Swap the backs on your cabs and see what affect it has.

Maybe I shouldn’t have used MDF, but I’m pretty sure my 70s cabinet does NOT have a plywood back. It’s some type of particleboard. My 60s cab DOES have a plywood back. I’ll open the 70s one again to recheck.

 

[scottosan]

I have a theory that over time because the wood is not sealed, it takes on moisture and dries out over its lifetime. When I was treating the rattling on my 1979 cab a majority of the screws (not rear baffle) were not very tight. While this was not the cause of the rattling (plastic handles), I suspect that there may have been some dampening affect. I have no way to confirm, but I felt the cab was more lively and loud after tighten a dozen or so internal screws

 

[BadgerO]

Lately I’ve been compari my 68-69 basketweave cab with my 78-79 small checkerboard Cabinet, both A style. Now obvious;y they have different constructi0n points, and the back panel on the,later cab is partical board while the 68 cab is plywood.

So what makes them sound SO SOdifferent? The 68 is louder, seems much closer to me and accentuates the mids and upper mids. The check cab seems more scooped, less present and with a much bigger bottom. Given the same quad of speakers, what is it that changes the sound so much?

I have a late 60's basket weave and a 74 large check, I have had the same set of speakers in both, I couldn't believe the difference. You're gonna laugh at me, but I think basket weave grill sounds different than the large check. I've re-grilled cabs with both of those (purchased from Tube-town), I feel like they sound different, large check is brighter, basket weave is easier to work with though.

 

[Appetite4distortion]

Old cabs are quite inconsistent one from each other, but I found that especially true with 70s checquerboards: some were middy as hell, other were scooped and sterile..only a couple ones very good I ran across overtime. These delivered the classic marshall roar.
On the contrary I never found a bad sounding BW cab, just different tastes. Maybe is fate, don't know..
As other said, wood source got different for sure, as you can feel that just by knocking on it. The grill also is a huge factor as it acts as a filter, and so is the back panel (70s is definitely NOT plywood), the center post was much bigger, and in general the whole cab feel more solid, it's hard to describe that in words.

 

[SG~GUY]

-everything makes a difference-(temp & humidity effect not just would but electronics)-

-The CENTER BRACE-
just its existence, be it just for aesthetics or to "actually solve or lessen a problem" is a red flag, an -A- or angled cab, with a baffle cut into 2 pieces!!! is a huge blunder, there is no engineer that would ever do that.

 

[SG~GUY]

^^^^ -( would = wood )- ^^^^

-$wear to god autocorrect is ruining my life!-