Why do people like Creambacks?

[DerekLicon]

I have the H75’s in a Mesa 2x12. I ordered it from Mesa specifically like that based off the description on the Celestion website, many, many tone comparison videos, and what people were saying about them when they came out. I have absolutely no regrets.

I could go on about why I prefer that speaker and have no desire to go back to v30’s but to simplify there are some things to consider. First off you cant lump all v30s together - there are different versions. Secondly , it depends on what music you listen to, and lastly it depends on the rig and how its setup and how the amp is eq’d and what amp you’re playing through them. The CHINESE v30s can be plain awful to listen to , if you arent aware of how they sound and no one is honest with you about your tone you can get into alot of trouble as far as the general mix goes….they have this ear-destroying, ear piercing high end…. You are kind of stuck with this too end that you cant dial out and gets exacerbated with the presence control and can be dangerous in a metal mix.

I am a metal player, but occasionally will play cleans and dad rock. For dad rock cover band stuff I dont care what speaker it is, it sounds fine, people will enjoy it and get drunk, and most guys that play that dont crank that loud to begin with or run their rig the same way—- for metal, it can be an ear piercing, shrill/harsh speaker.

As far as Creambacks the thing is, they fill out the lower mids that are missing with the china v30, and I enjoy the complexity of the tones I get with no excessive harshness on the top end, and they have a nice tight bass response as well.

The mesa v30 seems much more tamed and easy to listen to. YMMV

 

[Derek S]

Part of the love could be that a set of vintage, legit greenie's in nice condition are much harder to find vs creambacks which are easily had (not saying they don't sound nice too personally never tried them because I have no need to)...sometimes when you can't find that rare, primo piece of gear you may end up just convincing yourself what you have "will do" or is "even better", etc.

 

[Derrick111]

I have nothing to add... I just wanted to see thee different Derricks posting in a row. Although, you other two spell your name wrong

 

[NoStringsAttached]

So I've been rabbit-holing on guitar speakers for a while. I'm trying to have a bunch of options aside from the V30.

...Not to shit on the V30 mind you. There's a reason why V30s are the "standard" for most things. But options are always good!

Speakers that I've used (after a 30+ hour break-in) and enjoyed so far include:
- V30s.
That big midrange hump and the bright\open top end is awesome for anything with gain. They sit killer in a mix, and once you notch out some harsh high-end frequencies they're pretty awesome. A bit over-done, but there's a reason why.

- Greenbacks
I loooooooooove the top end of a greenback. Possibly my favourite speaker would be a V30 mid-range, with a GB top end. They can sound a tad snotty and the bottom end is a bit murky, but when properly pushed, they open up in a glorious way.

- G12H30 Anniversary
These are potentially becoming my favourite speaker. They've got such a wide frequency range. This makes them seem "scooped" compared to a V30 but they do have plenty of mids, they're just...distributed evenly. They just sound so clear and open, however they do require a bit of taming. The top end CAN be a tad bright and ice-picky. I'm finding that a lot of amps like the treble\presence to be rolled off though...

- Cream Alnicos
These are my favourite "PRETTY" speakers so far. Big soupy mid-range, slightly fizzy top (but in a friendly, non-abrasive way), super smooth, super detailed and glorious. Makes everything sound "expensive." I wouldn't use 'em for high gain (too fizzy) but aside from that...

Speakers I DIDN'T like:
- T75s
Fizzy top, scoopy mids, hated any form of post-processing...I get why they're a bit of a "standard" speaker to come in cabs because they don't suck at anything but they're not good at anything either. Could be great fun for if you want something a bit gnarly and nasty though. Might be pretty sweet for Punk

- Eminence DV77
Dark and thuddy. The top end had a weird snarl to it and any time I tried to get a bit of brightness\open-ness out of it, it just went harsh. Kinda stiff in the mid-range too and they didn't seem to enjoy much post-processing. I don't know how Kohle gets his sounds out of the DV77 'cos my experience with them was completely opposite.

So basically, overall I tend to like open-ended speakers with a bit of brightness to them. Most of the time when I listen to people play Creambacks online, I hear something murky with a real "blanket-over-the-cab" vibe. Occasionally I hear something cool in the mids, but...

Creambacks seem to have this absolute die-hard following online. I also see a lot of people call them a high-powered Greenback (which I think was the original intention, but that was the same deal with V30s...) but the thing which I love most about Greenbacks (the top end) seems to be the big thing missing from Creambacks?

But the last kink in this equation: YouTube demos of how speakers sound are such a mixed bag. You can check out 12 different samples and get literally 12 different results.

So...I defer to gear nerds. What is cool about Creambacks? Why do people love them and what am I missing?

Hi from New Zealand. 2 cents worth - many moons ago I happened to be at a gear suppliers premises and he had 3 speakers (being a Greenback, V30 and G12H30 Anniversary) setup as a blind "test". He played guitar while we switched between the three unknown speakers. Long story short my favourite was the G12H30 . BTW I have enjoyed reading your post, you have a writing talent so keep doing it.

 

[abkeller1]

I'm sure over the years I've played the old 65s but couldn't give a comparison.

In my opinion the modern Greenbacks fail at capturing the vintage sound in the highs/trebles but I wasn't even alive when the "pulsonic" holy grails were brand new so Idk if that's a side effect of the vintage ones being nearly 50+ years old, I have no doubt it does come into play.

Johan Segeborne on YouTube has really good examples of vintage and modern Greenbacks, especially in comparison videos.

I don't think the old ones sound better at all. They sound , old. I like the newer ones better. JMO.

 

[abkeller1]

Hi from New Zealand. 2 cents worth - many moons ago I happened to be at a gear suppliers premises and he had 3 speakers (being a Greenback, V30 and G12H30 Anniversary) setup as a blind "test". He played guitar while we switched between the three unknown speakers. Long story short my favourite was the G12H30 . BTW I have enjoyed reading your post, you have a writing talent so keep doing it.

Well if your just playing one speaker it's not going to sound the same as a 2x12 or 4x12, changes everything especailly with Greenback, more Greenbacks running together the better the tone.

 

[Derrick111]

I don't think the old ones sound better at all. They sound , old.

What does "old" sound like?

 

[Im247frogs]

Creambacks are awesome. Threw one in my 4010 combo in favor of the stock T75 and it rips. I've played my Friedman Smallbox thru that same speaker in a closed and open back 1x12 cab and it was outstanding.
If had money for anything I'd go for a pair of Alnico Creams in a heartbeat. Every demo I've heard is killer.

 

[tallcoolone]

The 75w Creambacks I really like after loading a Marshall cab with them a few months ago. Nice bite I didn't find in the 65w version, with the bigger low end of the large magnet.

Speakers that I've used (after a 30+ hour break-in) and enjoyed so far include:
- V30s.
That big midrange hump and the bright\open top end is awesome for anything with gain. They sit killer in a mix, and once you notch out some harsh high-end frequencies they're pretty awesome. A bit over-done, but there's a reason why.

- G12H30 Anniversary
These are potentially becoming my favourite speaker. They've got such a wide frequency range. This makes them seem "scooped" compared to a V30 but they do have plenty of mids, they're just...distributed evenly. They just sound so clear and open, however they do require a bit of taming. The top end CAN be a tad bright and ice-picky. I'm finding that a lot of amps like the treble\presence to be rolled off though...

If I could only keep one 4x12 it would have these stacked, V30s on bottom. I have 2 loaded with these and they sound great with everything. I like top end tho so YMMV

 

[TheLoudness!!]

If you said you like v30's and love the top end of Greenbacks, I suggest you try them both. Together.

I did years ago in a 1960A cabinet. It was glorious sounding for high gain tones. The v30 did slightly overpower the GB. I just turned it up louder LOL.

The v30 and GB mix was used in the Framus Ruby Riot combo.

The Framus Cobra cab which was a ferocious metal amp used a quad of Greenbacks.

I had also heard of people to afraid of blowing them.

If you ever watch the interview on YouTube with Steven Fryette, he talks about how a sealed cab limits the cone movement and it isn't that big of an issue. He states that with an open back, it's easy to pop them. It was interesting.

 

[tschrama]

If you said you like v30's and love the top end of Greenbacks, I suggest you try them both. Together.

I did years ago in a 1960A cabinet. It was glorious sounding for high gain tones. The v30 did slightly overpower the GB. I just turned it up louder LOL.

The v30 and GB mix was used in the Framus Ruby Riot combo.

The Framus Cobra cab which was a ferocious metal amp used a quad of Greenbacks.

I had also heard of people to afraid of blowing them.

If you ever watch the interview on YouTube with Steven Fryette, he talks about how a sealed cab limits the cone movement and it isn't that big of an issue. He states that with an open back, it's easy to pop them. It was interesting.

Also, because the air in a closed-back acts like a spring for the cone, and a more linear spring than the cone itself, linearity is enhanced and harmonic distortion is lowered.

 

[Derrick111]

I don't know... maybe Fryette's comment is being miss applied? Most speaker failure is heat related. Resistance on free cone travel would protect the cone/spider/surround from physical damage, not offer protection against heat damage. Stiffening the cone travel by the speaker being in a closed back environment wouldn't prevent heating up the speaker coil to where the enamel is compromised, or damage to the form, or the coil wire becoming an open circuit altogether.

 

[East Boston]

I have two neo creembacks in my sweet water special edition fender 65 twin reverb. They sound great and their lighter. I'm thinking of putting cream backs in my DSL 40 CR

 

[Purgasound]

Interesting take.
I hate the G12H-30 Anniversary speakers. All fizz and no girth or thump. I also dislike the G12M Greenback Reissues. Too woody and they don't sound anywhere close to the originals. The original G12M sounds scooper compared to the new ones and a G12-65 sounds closer than the reissues when compared to a Greenback.
I also prefer the G12T-75 to a Vintage 30 by far. You can low pass the "ice pick" easily on a console and just move the microphone away from the dust cap and the mid range is there without the treble.
Of course I'm in a world where my speaker judgement is based more off how they sound with a microphone in front of them. I'm either on stage or in a studio so how they sound standing in front of them isn't as important to me since that's never what the audience or listener is going to hear. Thus the same reason I don't X pattern speakers anymore.

 

[MarshallDog]

Creambacks are awesome. Threw one in my 4010 combo in favor of the stock T75 and it rips. I've played my Friedman Smallbox thru that same speaker in a closed and open back 1x12 cab and it was outstanding.
If had money for anything I'd go for a pair of Alnico Creams in a heartbeat. Every demo I've heard is killer.

I feel the same and have one in my 4010 and love it to death, great speakers hands down!

 

[tallcoolone]

If you said you like v30's and love the top end of Greenbacks, I suggest you try them both. Together.

I had a 4x12 with the gb/v30 combo—obvi Friedman got most of us doing that haha. Maybe it’s my old ears but I prefer the chime of the g12h. Also I feel that the V30 overpowers the greenbacks a bit.

 

[tallcoolone]

Interesting take.
I hate the G12H-30 Anniversary speakers. All fizz and no girth or thump. I also dislike the G12M Greenback Reissues. Too woody and they don't sound anywhere close to the originals. The original G12M sounds scooper compared to the new ones and a G12-65 sounds closer than the reissues when compared to a Greenback.
I also prefer the G12T-75 to a Vintage 30 by far. You can low pass the "ice pick" easily on a console and just move the microphone away from the dust cap and the mid range is there without the treble.
Of course I'm in a world where my speaker judgement is based more off how they sound with a microphone in front of them. I'm either on stage or in a studio so how they sound standing in front of them isn't as important to me since that's never what the audience or listener is going to hear. Thus the same reason I don't X pattern speakers anymore.

We have the opposite taste in speakers it sounds like lol. I like 1960 cabs and I grab em every time I see a good price on a used one. I seem to have at least 4 g12t’s on CL all the time—too scooped for my taste.

 

[TheLoudness!!]

I had a 4x12 with the gb/v30 combo—obvi Friedman got most of us doing that haha. Maybe it’s my old ears but I prefer the chime of the g12h. Also I feel that the V30 overpowers the greenbacks a bit.

Yes, it does a bit for sure. It is a glorious high gain sound though...

 

[Resident 217]

I noticed Higher watt creambacks were popular in Silverface Deluxe Reverbs .
That was severel years ago may have been for the calrity and versatility they give to that lower watt amplifer .

 

[Ken Ops]

Because people see them as basically higher wattage Greenbacks, or close as they’re going to get these days, affordably and reliably, anyway.

Of course, they’re not.. quite. Also not miles off, but there’s nothing that sounds like GBs, except.. yep.

That said, I think they’re fine. Especially paired with something else to complement them.