1966 JTM45 with EL34s

Dean Swindell

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Hi. I've had my 1966 JTM 45 since about 1978. It's always had EL34s. A while ago I delved a little deeper into the details and found the following.
The output tranformer has no markings, but using calculation appears to be a Drake 784-103
There are 1k grid resistors on the output valves with a green 150r flying resistor marked "J/H"
As I understand, this transformer was used with KT66s and is rated at 8k.
The OT specified for EL34s is 784-139 rated at 3.5k
The amp is used regularly and sounds great. I'd like to know what effects this "mismatch" is having on the sound?
I once visited the Marshall factory and Jim explained that they used whatever they could get hold of at the time.View attachment 82888 View attachment 82889
Putting EL34s in a 6L6 amp (or KT66, 5881) is a rollof the dice. My '67 Showman LOVED them but not my friend's Bandmaster. It just depends on the amp individual model. I'm glad it worked well for you, as I've been curious about that same set-up, of course the difference being I'd be working with a reissue. But good to know.
 

michelebis

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It’s a mid late 66 jtm45 for me. I’d say september-october. One of the first block end. A tipical thing of those 66 is the use of little morganite potentiometers. I have a june-july jtm45 with the same pots in the same position (treble/middle)
 

Pete Farrington

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Is this amp unusual, in that it looks like the sections of its reservoir cap (ie the can that sticks out of the chassis between the power and rectifier valves) are linked across?
...my 1966 JTM 45 ... I delved a little deeper into the details ...
Could you confirm whether those sections are linked across, and what that cap's values are, eg 2x16uF, 2x32uF, 16uF & 32uF etc?


...Way back in about 1981 the amp started to make "not nice" distortion and lacked power. The guy replaced the tubes. It may be possible that the 1k screen resistors were changed at the same time. I know that the tone was never the same afterwards...I ended up using one Yellow script and a Zaerix RFT. This produced a perfect match pair technically, although perhaps not sonically. If anything, the amp is a little too clean now. Maybe I need to make the bias a little "hotter"?
That screen grid arrangement seems weird, it may have originally been a 1k (or 1k5 or even up to 8k2) flying resistor and 2 x 470ohm resistors mounted on the valve bases. I don't think those 1k square section resistors are original, though it's feasible that the 150ohm flying resistor is. Certainly the 8k load puts more stress on the screen grids, especially so with EL34 'true' pentodes, and they'll draw more current when overdriven. Hence after a couple of years of the hard riffage you gave it, the original screen grid resistors could have been shot.

Regarding the different branding of the two EL34s, that doesn't matter to electrons. It's their technical characteristics that affect the tone. Though if their performance is too dissimilar (ie rather unbalanced), the amp will be difficult to bias as one would be idling too hot and the other too cold, and that tends not to sound good anyway.

As the gain of a valve increases with anode current, it may be worth tweaking the bias, though it probably wouldn't be a good idea to set idle current too much higher. Check the HT voltage and work out the anode dissipation.

...wax dripping out of the power transformer....
I thought that of the big 'pro level' manufacturers, it was only Vox that used wax potting, as a cost cutting measure; I'm surprised to discover that Marshall did too. But I suppose that if you hadn't seen the wax, you might not have checked the bias, so perversely it could have saved the PT :)
 
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neikeel

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The amp has had quite a bit of maintenance over the years. The screens would typically be 470R carbon comps or the grey RS type with the 1k flying cc.
Regarding the filter caps you can see that the mains and preamp are replacements. The mains would normally be 32uF 500v single can and the preamp 16uF 450v axial. The slightly later EL34 from factory amps were almost identical but had a single grey RS 32uF 450v axial. When the steel chassis versions (Black Flag) used the dual 32uF preamp can with additional 10k decoupling dropper.
 

StingRay85

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Is this amp unusual, in that it looks like the sections of its reservoir cap (ie the can that sticks out of the chassis between the power and rectifier valves) are linked across?

Could you confirm whether those sections are linked across, and what that cap's values are, eg 2x16uF, 2x32uF, 16uF & 32uF etc?



That screen grid arrangement seems weird, it may have originally been a 1k (or 1k5 or even up to 8k2) flying resistor and 2 x 470ohm resistors mounted on the valve bases. I don't think those 1k square section resistors are original, though it's feasible that the 150ohm flying resistor is. Certainly the 8k load puts more stress on the screen grids, especially so with EL34 'true' pentodes, and they'll draw more current when overdriven. Hence after a couple of years of the hard riffage you gave it, the original screen grid resistors could have been shot.

Regarding the different branding of the two EL34s, that doesn't matter to electrons. It's their technical characteristics that affect the tone. Though if their performance is too dissimilar (ie rather unbalanced), the amp will be difficult to bias as one would be idling too hot and the other too cold, and that tends not to sound good anyway.

As the gain of a valve increases with anode current, it may be worth tweaking the bias, though it probably wouldn't be a good idea to set idle current too much higher. Check the HT voltage and work out the anode dissipation.


I thought that of the big 'pro level' manufacturers, it was only Vox that used wax potting, as a cost cutting measure; I'm surprised to discover that Marshall did too. But I suppose that if you hadn't seen the wax, you might not have checked the bias, so perversely it could have saved the PT :)

Welcome to the MF Pete, I recognize your picture from the EL34 world forum where I sometimes peak, where certainly it shows you're extremely knowledged. Make sure to drop by the workbench subforum, any help there from people like you is always greatly appreciated ;)

:cheers:
 

Gene Ballzz

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@M0usey
It certainly does my heart good to see you proudly and loudly rocking this gloriously functional piece of ROCK history. I'm often saddened to see amps like this simply sitting unused in a museum collection!
Good On You!
Gene
 

M0usey

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I've been gigging with this amp pretty much every week now for the last three or four years and, apart from single coil guitar hum, it has always been reliable,
On saturday we finished our first set and I could hear some faint feedback from the amp with the guitar volume off.
The amp was on about no.8 on the bright channel. When I turned it down a little the "feedback" stopped and was fine for the rest of the night.
Any ideas? My thoughts are a microphonic valve.
 

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