Amps in stereo with multiple effects.

[Lukas]

I’m aware of how to connect 2 cabs in stereo via two heads but my question is right now I have a pretty kick ass pedal board and only some of those pedals are stereo. If I chose to buy another head to run my two 1960 cabs in stereo how would I achieve utilizing all my pedals through two heads? I will add that all my pedals are in the effects loop. Splitting the signal to the front of two heads I guess I’d use a twin city ABY. For the pedals would I just make sure the first and last pedals in the loop were stereo pedals and I can connect them to both heads through each effects loop that way??? Or is there a better way to achieve this?.... that makes for a lot of cables haha.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Depends on the stereo pedals you have. And the amps.
They are usually the time-based ones placed at the end of the chain (in the loop).
Choruses are mostly mono in (e.g. BOSS) and stereo out.
General convention (YMMV) is Chorus>Delay>Reverb.
Hopefully you have stereo out Chorus, and full stereo Delay and Reverb.
Anyway, the last in the chain has to be stereo out.

Assuming you want to use some sort of 4CM (becomes 5CM), the stereo effects will be in the loop of your preferred amp, and the preamp tone of that amp will be sent to the power amps of both heads.
So in the loop of amp A is a stereo pedal, with one out to the return of amp A, and the second stereo out to the FX return of amp B.

Where you might have problems with 5CM is if one or both of the amps is non-MV.
There is no onboard way to attenuate an amps power amp if it has a simple series loop.
You will need some way of balancing the volumes of the amps, as the preamp of amp A may be louder sounding through a different model amp (amp B?).
This is my setup: Amp A is MV (DSL40CR), amp B is non-MV (VS65R).
But amp B has a series/parallel FX loop with a mixer knob.
I can blend in the wet signal of amp A (and effects) with the silent (unconnected) preamp of amp B, like an MV.
​

The other method is to run all the pedal chain in front of the amps and split the signal using a stereo pedal last in the chain.
One out to amp A and one out to amp B.
This method suffers from the general rule that time based sound better post-gain and not pre (again YMMV).

 

[SonVolt]

If you try and use 2 dedicated guitar amp heads (let's call them Amp A and Amp B) to achieve this with your current momo pedal rig, you'll probably run into summing issues where you're feeding Amp A's preamp signal back into Amp B's loop return, which isn't ideal. Amp A and B's signal path need to be kept isolated. This is easy with a high-end effects unit like a Fractal FX-8. More problematic (and i imagine noisy) with pedals. In your situation I would slave Amp B and put the stereo pedals at the end of your chain and feed Amp B's loop return with the 2nd stereo out of the last pedal. Only plug your guitar into Amp A (the Master).

 

[Lukas]

Depends on the stereo pedals you have. And the amps.
They are usually the time-based ones placed at the end of the chain (in the loop).
Choruses are mostly mono in (e.g. BOSS) and stereo out.
General convention (YMMV) is Chorus>Delay>Reverb.
Hopefully you have stereo out Chorus, and full stereo Delay and Reverb.
Anyway, the last in the chain has to be stereo out.

Assuming you want to use some sort of 4CM (becomes 5CM), the stereo effects will be in the loop of your preferred amp, and the preamp tone of that amp will be sent to the power amps of both heads.
So in the loop of amp A is a stereo pedal, with one out to the return of amp A, and the second stereo out to the FX return of amp B.

Where you might have problems with 5CM is if one or both of the amps is non-MV.
There is no onboard way to attenuate an amps power amp if it has a simple series loop.
You will need some way of balancing the volumes of the amps, as the preamp of amp A may be louder sounding through a different model amp (amp B?).
This is my setup: Amp A is MV (DSL40CR), amp B is non-MV (VS65R).
But amp B has a series/parallel FX loop with a mixer knob.
I can blend in the wet signal of amp A (and effects) with the silent (unconnected) preamp of amp B, like an MV.
​

The other method is to run all the pedal chain in front of the amps and split the signal using a stereo pedal last in the chain.
One out to amp A and one out to amp B.
This method suffers from the general rule that time based sound better post-gain and not pre (again YMMV).

I currently have a JVM210H running through a 1960A & 1960B cabs. I would most likely add a JCM2000 100watt head as they’re plentiful and usually a good price used. Here is my setup and all these pedals are in the loop which some might argue isn’t right ie: the Wah but whatever it sounds great and I’m not a big wahhh guy anyway. The path goes tuner, chorus, flanger, EQ, noise suppressor, delay, wah, looper and back to effects loop in amp. There’s no reverb pedal and the MXR carbon copy is not stereo. The delay and wahhh obviously come after the suppressor as that pedal deems it undesirable and cancels them. I’ve run my setup like this for years and it sounds killer.

 

[SkyMonkey]

I would run like so:
Slave JCM to JVM with 5CM.
Tuner>Wah>JVM preamp>EQ>NS>Delay>Flanger or Chorus (both are mono in).

Then split from the Flanger or Chorus to both FX return jacks.

The JCM has no MV or mixer control for the FX loop (i.e. simple series I think, the manual doesn't say), so that could give you problems balancing the volume of the 2 amps. The JCM power amp would just be flat out (loud).
You could use a volume box (e.g. JHS Little Black Amp Box) just before the JCM return to balance them out.

 

[Lukas]

I would run like so:
Slave JCM to JVM with 5CM.
Tuner>Wah>JVM preamp>EQ>NS>Delay>Flanger or Chorus (both are mono in).

Then split from the Flanger or Chorus to both FX return jacks.

The JCM has no MV or mixer control for the FX loop (i.e. simple series I think, the manual doesn't say), so that could give you problems balancing the volume of the 2 amps. The JCM power amp would just be flat out (loud).
You could use a volume box (e.g. JHS Little Black Amp Box) just before the JCM return to balance them out.

And would this be a true stereo setup slaving? My setup now sounds pretty damn good would this setup be much of an upgrade? Is it worth it is what I’m asking? I’m guessing to do this would cost around $1500 with the head and cables and any other needed items to achieve it.

 

[SkyMonkey]

Can you get hold of a small cheap amp to experiment with first. I got the VS65R for about £70!
It would need an FX loop!
Borrow one off a mate?

 

[SonVolt]

If you can part with your mono pedals, I think you'd get more from your money buying a 3rd cabinet and a modern solid-state stereo poweramp (Matrix) and going for a W/D/W setup. Now that upgrade would be HUGE over what you currently have.

https://usa.matrixamplification.com/rack-amplifers/gt-1000-fx-2u.html

 

[Lukas]

Can you get hold of a small cheap amp to experiment with first. I got the VS65R for about £70!
It would need an FX loop!
Borrow one off a mate?

I own a DSL 40CR also

 

[SkyMonkey]

Being an MV amp, the DSL40CR is a perfect test amp.

Just don't push it too far trying to match with the 100W JVM.

 

[mickeydg5]

You have two tube amplifiers. Slap a 4x12 under that DSL40CR, use it with the JVM210H and other 4x12. Spread them as much as you can. It will sound louder than you think.

I would just use the mono delay at the end of one stereo route after the split, whichever amplifier/4x12 you want to be more wet sound.

 

[Lukas]

You have two tube amplifiers. Slap a 4x12 under that DSL40CR, use it with the JVM210H and other 4x12. Spread them as much as you can. It will sound louder than you think. Ya that sounds like the better cheapest option. I have a separate pedal board for the 40CR hooked through that loop. This way all it would cost me is the price of 2 more speaker cables and a twin city ABY to split the guitar signal in to both and that’s it. Sounds like a real headache and f*ckin around and pricey with the board I got and pedals to go the JCM 2000 route.

I would just use the mono delay at the end of one stereo route after the split, whichever amplifier/4x12 you want to be more wet sound.

 

[SlapHand]

My solution to amps with different headroom in a w/d/w setup was going for a stereo volume pedal from Ernie Ball.

I run a DSL40c and a DSL40cr in stereo with a JMP 2204 as the center dry amp.

The DSL’s and the JMP react very different from dirt pedals. More so after I began using the low input on the JMP.

Volume pedal come after dirt. One ch. to JMP and the other to the DSL40cr. I slave the DSL40c from the stereo pedals in the DSL40cr’s fx-loop.

This let’s me pan the JMP with the DSL’s.

Might not be the optimal solution but works for me.

 

[SkyMonkey]

If you are still wondering if stereo is worthwhile, go to your HiFi system, put on some AC/DC, turn it up, and unplug one speaker!

I bet it won't be long before you plug the speaker back in.

 

[SkyMonkey]

I would just use the mono delay at the end of one stereo route after the split, whichever amplifier/4x12 you want to be more wet sound.

Good spot that, as many "stereo" delays only output wet to one channel, e.g. DD-3T, DM-2W.

 

[trovador]

Good spot that, as many "stereo" delays only output wet to one channel, e.g. DD-3T, DM-2W.

Correct, those are not true stereo but they have their use nevertheless. I run a wet/dry setup with the wet delay going through amp B and it sounds awesome.

 

[matttornado]

What I do is run a line out between my 100 watt Superlead and cab into my Boss EQ and Delay and then into either my DSL40CR's Effect Return or into a Quilter Microblock 45 / 1x12 cab. I like my chorus & phase 90 in front of the amps better than in the loop.

 

[WoundUp]

Correct, those are not true stereo but they have their use nevertheless. I run a wet/dry setup with the wet delay going through amp B and it sounds awesome.

How is that not true stereo? Stereo chorus pedals do the same thing. So do reverb. Wouldn't that just be dual-mono basically? Essentially the same thing as running a delay pedal on each amp?

I've only ever seen 1 stereo delay pedal that doesn't have clean signal from 1 output. This pedal has 2 separate delay circuits in 1 pedal with each circuit having its own controls, input, and output jacks.

Every other pedal I've seen has clean signal from 1 output. If they didn't have a clean out, it wasn't made clear in the description that it didn't output clean signal from 1 jack.

Might as well just run 2 delay pedals and not even worry about a stereo delay pedal if you have to have delay in both amps for it to be "stereo". Isn't that just dual-mono, then?

 

[maico996]

If you can find one...............

Twinline - Radial Engineering

The Twinline is a unique switcher that allows you to share your pedalboard between the built-in effects loops of two amplifiers.

www.radialeng.com

 

[SkyMonkey]

5 (necro) years later and I am now running a stereo pedalboard with the VS65R in 5CM (DSL40CR slaved).
The board has a TC Electronic Mimiq Doubler running into the L/R of a ZOOM MS-70CDR (all my stereo TBEs).
The Mimiq micro-modulates signal delay, volume, pitch, and attack to make a live doubled guitar simulation parallel to the 'clean' signal.
Even if the ZOOM was sending exactly the same TBE to each power amp, the Mimiq is ensuring they are coming (L/R) from discernibly different signals.
But the stereo delays I use are separate L/R setting delays too, so the sound is HUGE.