Are JCM2000 amps “voiced” for the Celestion G12T-75 speaker?

[Lukas]

Hockey sticks are expensive too

 

[Seventh Son]

A Marshall rep (Steve) stated in a recent video on YouTube that when they were developing the Studio line, they tried the JCM800 Studio Classic with a bunch of different speakers and thought the 10" V-type sounded best, so they went with it. Assuming that that, and in some cases cost, is the same logic Marshall uses for all amps, by deductive reasoning, Marshall probably first design the amp, then find the speaker they think is best for it, given their cost constraints.

That said, since a group of people at Marshall thought the JCM2000 sounded best with G12T-75's, their collective consensus is probably a reliable starting point, but that's not to say that you couldn't upgrade from the recommended speakers and achieve an improvement over the recommended speaker.

This argument is particularly true for the Vietnamese DSL's, where, due to cost constraints, the speakers they had to choose from were probably a lower-tier subset. For example, my DSL20CR came with the Seventy 80. I upgraded to the G12T-75, which is very similar to the Seventy 80, but is a more refined and premium version of the Seventy 80 sound.

 

[MalcolmYoung]

I run my JCM 2000 DSL 100 through 4x12 1960 Lead slanted (angled) cabinet that has G12T75 speakers fitted inside. It sounds great when I play Metallica Kill em all riffs and 80's metal. however when I want to get nice crunchy rock tones and sparkly cleans the speakers sound too dark and stiff so I tried to run the amp through a second cabinet fitted only with V30's and it gave nice sparkly clean's and crunchy tones. In conclusion it depends what tones is person going after and what does he prefer. Here is a guy on Youtube who had 2x12 cabinet fitted with G12T75's and V30's and it sounded really good:

 

[What?]

Not a fan of G12T-75's. They sound too scooped and bright on the top. Maybe it would work ok with a greenback though. Never heard that combo.

I think DSL's need speakers with less scoop in the mids, unless you are playing metal maybe.

 

[What?]

I do wonder though if there has been anything mentioned out there about how DSL's were voiced. What was the aim in the design of the channels in comparison to previous Marshall amps?

 

[MalcolmYoung]

I do wonder though if there has been anything mentioned out there about how DSL's were voiced. What was the aim in the design of the channels in comparison to previous Marshall amps?

I totally agree with you, we should find out which speakers were used to voice DSL. To confirm your logic, I have to mention that now that I have acquired YJM100 and tried it with my 1960 lead cab fitted with G12T-75's it sounds awesome, and why is that so, well because these speakers were used to voice YJM100 in first place. When I bought my DSL I was after ACDC tones from Highway to Hell and Back in Black records, what frustrated me was the fact that I could never achieve nice crunchy tones, no matter how much I experimented with eq I couldn't do anything besides getting a new cab with different speakers. Also in recent years I got the Jimi Hendrix bug and I was after sparkly clean tones but when I played my DSL100 through G12T-75's it sounded to stiff (scooped as you say), it was missing that sparkliness that greenbacks have on those early Hendrix records and creamy crunch from Zeppelin, Free and ACDC records.

 

[Mitchell Pearrow]

I run my JCM 2000 DSL 100 through 4x12 1960 Lead slanted (angled) cabinet that has G12T75 speakers fitted inside. It sounds great when I play Metallica Kill em all riffs and 80's metal. however when I want to get nice crunchy rock tones and sparkly cleans the speakers sound too dark and stiff so I tried to run the amp through a second cabinet fitted only with V30's and it gave nice sparkly clean's and crunchy tones. In conclusion it depends what tones is person going after and what does he prefer. Here is a guy on Youtube who had 2x12 cabinet fitted with G12T75's and V30's and it sounded really good:

Welcome to the forum, I think the v30’s sound great, in a closed back cab (it’s an orange 212)
But I am also a big greenback fan.
Cheers

 

[MalcolmYoung]

Welcome to the forum, I think the v30’s sound great, in a closed back cab (it’s an orange 212)
But I am also a big greenback fan.
Cheers

Thank you Mitchell Pearrow for the warm welcome!

 

[Kutt]

Bit of an older thread at this point, but here is my two cents- No idea what Marshall had in mind when they designed the JCM 2000, but they likely did have a speaker that they centered their work around. You have to start somewhere, right? Since the most popular matching cabinet at the time was (and still is) a standard 1960, I would say yes, they voiced it for a G12T-75. However, keep in mind that the 1960AV and BV cabinets also match and those use Marshall Vintage (Vintage 30 family) speakers.

In my experience with these amps Greenbacks and Marshall Vintages are my favorites but G12T-75's sound good too.

 

[What?]

My DSL50 sounds very different according to how I set it up and which speakers I use. I mostly use the green channel for more classic rock tone. Setting the master low and the gain high sounds not so good to me. Treating it like a non-master volume amp with the master on full and using the gain high (6 and higher) sounds best to my ears, but when using it at home like that I get complaints about the volume. For getting into more gain that doesn't sound like an overdrive pedal, a boost is required (I don't like the 'crunch' button so much). All this seems to follow suit to classic Marshall amps, so I don't know if the DSL's are really voiced toward a particular speaker/cab. Lot's of people have reported preferring greenbacks, V30's, G12-65's, and other speakers with DSL's, so it doesn't make sense to me that DSL's would have been voiced toward a particular speaker. And is any production amp voiced toward a particular speaker? It seems to me to be the same situation with classic Marshall amps, that a range of speakers are preferred by different players. If anything, I would think that amp designers would voice their amps through more neutral sounding speakers, such as the EV M12L.

I do still wonder what the circuit differences are between a DSL50/100 on the green channel vs. other classic Marshall amps such as JCM's, JMP's, JTM's.

 

[Buzzard]

My jcm 900 cab. Has g12t75 is my favorite cab out of all. Everything sounds great through it. And I’ve got a 1960 ax greenback cab, a vintage modern 425 a cab. Silver jubilee 2551

 

[What?]

A thing when reading about other's speaker preferences is that it's rarely mentioned what type of tone someone is dialing up. One person might be shooting for scooped Metallica tone and another early AC/DC edge of breakup, and all sorts of tones inbetween.

 

[JCMDOUG]

I have 11 Cabs, two have V30s the other 9 have G12T75s and are JCM 800 cabs JCM 900s and the current 1960 version.
The 800s have more mids and are less bright. I have one JCM 900 I got new that has over 800 shows on it and it looks beat to crap but the sound is warm and sweet. It lived in the band van so it was stored in hot 100F to - 15F temps played shows in the rain I will never sell that cab it makes any amp sound good.

 

[axe arsenal]

Yeah, G12T75's can sound good but I have to admit my favorite ones are from the eighties. I have had cabs with V30's and had a '78 cab with blackbacks, I sold them because it wasn't for me. V30's were too spikey for me and the blackbacks just had equal mids in comparison with my eighties 75's but less bass; they just sounded as the "lite" version of the 75's.
I have a white 2011 cab with 75's and this one is very bright sounding. It's a night and day difference with my '86 cab (in this old pic my '86 cabs are the ones with the faded cloth).

The '78 cab with blackbacks is the A cab under the JVM.
Here is a recent pic. You can see the '86 cab (at the back) has discolored further (the '86 B cab is at rehearsal space): In front there is a 2011 white one and a '94.

And here a pic from around '91 were the '86 cabs just began to discolor :

I don't know why these sound so good (I bought these new in '86 and these always sounded better than others ; I also have a '84 and a '89).

 

[Vesperado]

Try a quad of H Creamback 75s. I did. Night and day difference over the T75s. The highs are no longer shrill and you wont be needing to touch the "deep" switch ever. I like the mids and the breakup is much controlled now. The speakers sound great not even fully broken in. The only internal adjustments I made were:

Main Iss. 5 TSL-100:
Clip C24
Clip TR3
R71 replaced with Axiom Mar100 choke $
OT replaced with Axiom Mar100 $$
PT ditto $$
R2-10, 66-70, 78 replaced with 2w metal films
C46 replaced with 3kV value
Installed 92x25mm AC fan off power switch
JJ E34L and JJ ECC83S
bias set to 69mADC a side

Lead:
C36-37 replaced with 630 VAC/250VDC types
R1 replaced with 1k value
C39 (40 schem) redirected to ground
R25 replaced with 10k value
C9 clipped

Rear:
closed the open ground for the 16 Ohm connector
R19 replaced with a 2w 100k pot

1960A cab:
Handles replaced with steel ones
14 AWG OFC wire with silver solder
caulked the seems
installed foam pad on the base
realigned center beam
T75s replaced with H75s $$

3' 14 AWG OFC Speaker cable employed @ 16 Ohms

Doing these things have prompted me to replace all the buckers in my PRS SC250s! Not to mention replacing half of my drive pedals. The fidelity I get now is insane, can't beleive I put it off for so long. Finally got my rig up and running the way I have always wanted it, well almost, still need to fine tune the guitar electronics lol.

 

[Seventh Son]

The G12T-75 is a ridiculously scooped speaker that makes everything sound like it has been hollowed out in the middle. Unless you have a very midrange-dominant amp, you’ll definitely need a TS and parametric EQ to fill out the missing mids and get some crunch. I wish Marshall would stop putting that speaker in their standard cabinets. It makes everything sound like Metallica on ...And Justice for All.

 

[Guitar Rod]

Since the G12T-75 loaded 1960 cabs were what was going to be the matching cab, I'm fairly certain they would voice the amp for the matching standard cab.

I like it with the G12T-75's, but I'm more of a Greenback person. I use half 75/half GB so if I run one side, it is 75's, other is GB. But it sounds best with both blended. Great match up that fill in each other's deficiencies.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

The G12T-75 is a ridiculously scooped speaker that makes everything sound like it has been hollowed out in the middle. Unless you have a very midrange-dominant amp, you’ll definitely need a TS and parametric EQ to fill out the missing mids and get some crunch. I wish Marshall would stop putting that speaker in their standard cabinets. It makes everything sound like Metallica on ...And Justice for All.

Really? You think? With Marshall midrange growl I don't really find that, for me. I have one in my 6101 and it is going to be different in an open back combo, granted. Gave it some oomph amd less harsh. I have a 4x12 I put 1 V30 in it with 3x75s. I dont like mid scooped stuff and havemt really found that. Its used mainly with the JVM.

 

[Seventh Son]

Really? You think? With Marshall midrange growl I don't really find that, for me. I have one in my 6101 and it is going to be different in an open back combo, granted. Gave it some oomph amd less harsh. I have a 4x12 I put 1 V30 in it with 3x75s. I dont like mid scooped stuff and havemt really found that. Its used mainly with the JVM.

I really do. Bear in mind that I have a 4x12", a 1x12", and my DSL20CR loaded with those. I am not sure whether they benefit from a larger cab size, bigger iron, or both, but they do sound a bit better in the 4x12".

As it so happens, I was doing speaker testing yesterday, testing the G12T-75 against the Vintage 30 in a 1x12". For the test, I used my DSL20CR on max volume, same settings, same mic placement on both cabs (cap edge for the G12T-75, and just outside cap edge on the Vintage 30). I liked the Vintage 30 way better. The Vintage 30 is warm and full-bodied, whereas the G12T-75 is metallic, and hollow in the lower mids. Listening to the results right now with fresh ears, the G12T-75 sounds much brighter, a little less scooped than yesterday, but still. I would describe it as "energized," with that bright, aggressive, metallic treble. It is not the kind of speaker that lends itself to melodic playing. Chords sound alright, albeit a bit too energetic, for lack of a better word. It just sounds so jacked up all the time, with no sweetness to it.

Some people claim the G12T-75 needs a lot of break-in and volume to sound good. That may be true, but I can't attest to that, since in my test, I sent "only" 20W (tube) through it.

That said, the G12T-75 is fine, as long as you don't double-track it with a Vintage 30 on the opposite channel, because the Vintage 30 will dominate it.

 

[Vesperado]

I have a quad of 2001 GT75s pulled from a perfectly fine 1960A. Smoke free environs. Anyone interested shoot me a message.