Are low wattage Amps better?

[Guitar-Rocker]

And by the same contrast there is no such thing as micing up ? Yes you can turn down a larger, but there suffers your tone. I believe I did say the right size, and if that means mic up or turn it down, I'd take mic up any day.

 

[zachman]

And by the same contrast there is no such thing as micing up ?

Sure... The bigger watt amp would get mic'd up too-- for the front of house mix, but it still needs to be audible over the drums, and if you've ever played w/ a heavy footed drummer, and you need to be audible and be clean, unless you are working w/ your own sound man-- and likely you're not, trusting the guy to do their job is sketchy at best-- plus I hate the tone in the monitors. I don't want my guitar in the monitors. I don't need my amp in the monitors because I use my speaker cabs as my monitors, and they're not but a few feet from me.

The whole need for a small watt solution has been a non-issue, having the bigger watt amp is a better bet (qualifier: for those who know how to use their gear, and have access to it).

Yes you can turn down a larger, but there suffers your tone.

You're assuming the tone will suffer?

Ya, I don't have that problem, and haven't-- in the last 30+ years, but understand that not everyone can pull it off.

I believe I did say the right size, and if that means mic up or turn it down, I'd take mic up any day.

False premise... The choice isn't mic up OR turn down. The issue is clean headroom

For many years I was using a 180 Watt Mesa/Boogie MKIII Coliseum head w/ a Pearce Engineering 1x12 cab w/ an EV12L, for all size gigs. No tone sufferage

Boogie MKIII Simul-Class 1x12 combo 75 watts has served me well, w/ no tone sufferage.

Fuchs ODS 50 w/ Boogie 1x12 w/ JBL K120 w/ no tone sufferage.

Egnater TOL100 w/ a Pearce Engineering 1x12 cab w/ an EV12L.

etc... etc...

 

[Flyingv4me]

I love lower wattage amps actually.

Started out with Marshall 100 watt JMP's. Quickly went to 50 watt heads. Currently have 2 Marshall 50 waters (1969 and a 1972) with 2 Marshall 4x12 1960 cabinets.

Over the years, lugging around Marshall stacks quickly loses the appeal. Yeah the sound is killer and the visual effect is hard to beat.

Years ago got into the Lunch box amps with the Gallien Krueger 250ML. Loved the portability and how easy it was to go to a gig, and plug into the board. Sound was OK. Got out of GK and went back to Marshalls.

Next small amp was a Blackstar HT5 combo and head. Still have both. Am able to plug into a 4x12 and crank it. Also picked up Blackstar HT-1's which I travel with - great hotel room amps.

When Hughes & Kettner came out with the Tubemeister...I picked up the 18 watt version. Quickly upgraded to the 36 watt version which I love. Switchable from 1 watt to 36 watts....easy to transport, can run direct into the board.

That being said...I love the lower volume capabilities...but many times the lower volume overdriven amp becomes to compressed and you lose some of the "zing" as well as dynamics. Too much gain compresses the sound so much that the definition and ability to cut through the mix go bye bye.

I really do love the small wattage amps for convenience...but LOVE the sound of a cranked Marshall 50 watt head. If an artist could get all the tones, attack, etc from a small wattage amp, we would see fake backdrops of amp stacks on stage and everything run through the PA...this has NOT happened. Just like people said tubes would be replaced....(they were wrong)....and some now say small wattage amps will replace the stacks...they are also wrong.

 

[blues_n_cues]

Sure... The bigger watt amp would get mic'd up too-- for the front of house mix, but it still needs to be audible over the drums, and if you've ever played w/ a heavy footed drummer, and you need to be audible and be clean,

plus I hate the tone in the monitors. I don't want my guitar in the monitors. I don't need my amp in the monitors because I use my speaker cabs as my monitors, and they're not but a few feet from me.

yup.
I hate the sound of monitors too,not to mention the inaccurate representation from a mic.

 

[zachman]

yup.
I hate the sound of monitors too,not to mention the inaccurate representation from a mic.

I've played at places small enough not to warrant micing the stage gear, so have learned not to rely on some "soundman" who generally isn't even qualified to turn on my radio, much less get me what I want from my gear.

It's really fun for me to meet guys from the forums in person and watch them trip out-- playing through my rig w/ all these high watt amps that supposedly have tone sufferage if you don't crank them, and just laugh, as the false premise is destroyed

 

[EndGame00]

Before this thread turns into a pissing contest... the answer is, "the right tools for the right job".... Big and small watt amps have their place.... There are some clubs that would not allow guitarists to have their amps played wide open... There are venues big enough that 100-watters will be needed....

If you're a non-gigging apartment dweller, 100-watt would not be necessary....

 

[zachman]

Before this thread turns into a pissing contest... the answer is, "the right tools for the right job".... Big and small watt amps have their place.... There are some clubs that would not allow guitarists to have their amps played wide open... There are venues big enough that 100-watters will be needed....

If you're a non-gigging apartment dweller, 100-watt would not be necessary....

I agree, "the right tools for the right job" is the ideal, but suggest that more often than not budget plays a major factor-- making the choice be one or the other vs both or more...and would more often than not opt for the bigger watt amp, so as to have more and not need it vs needing more and not having it.

I NEVER play w/ my amps wide open, and that includes having done outdoor gigs in front of 18,000 people. As a matter of fact at those gigs my 40 watt Super Reverb was on 3, and my 100 watt Marshall SLP was on 3.5, 180 Watt Boogie was on 2, 100 watt Marshall 6100 was on 2.5.

The guys who think you have to crank those amps to obnoxious listening levels just haven't figured out how to crank the amp and not have it be too loud. They think the small watt amp cures that problem, which I suggest-- isn't a problem at all.

 

[blues_n_cues]

If you're a non-gigging apartment dweller, 100-watt would not be necessary....

I guess that depends on the apartment,I've had some neighbors that had domestic disputes that completely drowned out my 2204.
that's why I live out in the country now.

 

[EndGame00]

I agree, "the right tools for the right job" is the ideal, but suggest that more often than not budget plays a major factor-- making the choice be one or the other vs both or more...and would more often than not opt for the bigger watt amp, so as to have more and not need it vs needing more and not having it.

I NEVER play w/ my amps wide open, and that includes having done outdoor gigs in front of 18,000 people. As a matter of fact at those gigs my 40 watt Super Reverb was on 3, and my 100 watt Marshall SLP was on 3.5, 180 Watt Boogie was on 2, 100 watt Marshall 6100 was on 2.5.

The guys who think you have to crank those amps to obnoxious listening levels just haven't figured out how to crank the amp and not have it be too loud. They think the small watt amp cures that problem, which I suggest-- isn't a problem at all.

I have done a few outdoor festivals that warranted my Mark IV to be to played past 4, just hair below, 5 without drowning the vocals... The last large venue we played was at the Santa Cruz beach boardwalk... We had adequate PA system....

There's a reason why big name amp companies and small boutique builders are also going for low wattage tube amps because there is a market for it, majority are from gigging musicians themselves...Maybe not for you, but there are... For example, why would Randall Smith make a 25-watt Mark V if its bigger Mark V can do the job, with its switchable power section?

I've seen Paul Gilbert use a DSL40 for his clinics, even with small gigs he did in Japan....

Sometimes it has nothing to do with the guitarist's budget why he or she opted for a lower watt amp....

 

[Codyjohns]

There's nothing in this world that compares to a 200 watt Major full stack.
With a plate voltage of 650V and 200 watts of clean headroom, what more can I say.
The PPIMV allows me to play half stack in a small club or full stack in a stadium, no problem.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f20l4PWda5k[/ame]

 

[Lo-Tek]

There's nothing in this world that compares to a 200 watt Major full stack.

Plenty of amps compare favorably to a major. I certainly wouldn't equate wattage to good tone. Small amps have been behind a lot of great songs.

Personal preference is one thing but let's not get carried away here.

 

[johnfv]

...why would I need/want to spend $$$ on a small watt amp...

Variety is the spice of life

I understand your point and if I had to have only one amp for all scenarios, yes I'd probably want something higher wattage (and right now I'd probably choose my JVM JS for maximum flexibility). That said, I love being able to choose the amp for the gig. I use anything from my Axe FX II direct to PA all the way up to 2 amp clean/dirty rigs (behemoth by my standards, small by Zachman standards ). I have really been loving my Prinzetone head for small clubs recently - I can run it at the perfect level where it is still quite clean but has that wonderful output tube compression. Push it/boost it for more bark, bite and saturation. YMMV...

 

[scat7s]

I can run it at the perfect level where it is still quite clean but has that wonderful output tube compression.

bingo.

if your tone is all about preamp gain, then perhaps a big amp is fine for small rooms.

but your not hitting the sweet spot on the power amp with a 100w marshall in that same room.

 

[zachman]

I have done a few outdoor festivals that warranted my Mark IV to be to played past 4, just hair below, 5 without drowning the vocals... The last large venue we played was at the Santa Cruz beach boardwalk... We had adequate PA system....

There's a reason why big name amp companies and small boutique builders are also going for low wattage tube amps because there is a market for it, majority are from gigging musicians themselves...Maybe not for you, but there are... For example, why would Randall Smith make a 25-watt Mark V if its bigger Mark V can do the job, with its switchable power section? Because the same pussies that complain about a Les Paul being 2 lbs heavier than a Strat, making it too heavy at 10 lbs, are the ones who they're marketing to. Sorry, I had to do it.

I've seen Paul Gilbert use a DSL40 for his clinics, even with small gigs he did in Japan....

Sometimes it has nothing to do with the guitarist's budget why he or she opted for a lower watt amp....

That's true, sometimes it's because that's what the rental company has available, closest to your rider sheet.

Re: Paul Gilbert using a DSL40... Clean headroom isn't really a major concern there, but that amp does happen to meet my earlier stated 40 watt minimum-- for being loud enough w/ enough clean headroom, to be audible over a heavy footed drummer.

 

[zachman]

bingo.

if your tone is all about preamp gain, then perhaps a big amp is fine for small rooms.

but your not hitting the sweet spot on the power amp with a 100w marshall in that same room.

You are IF you LOAD it down, and crank it to the sweet spot, then reamp it or go straight to the PA w/ something like a Palmer PDI and having the soundman be in control of your wedge monitor, or IEM mix, controlling the listening level w/ the reamp unit-- eliminating the too loud, or can't get to the sweet spot bs.

 

[Lo-Tek]

You are IF you LOAD it down, and crank it to the sweet spot, then reamp it or go straight to the PA w/ something like a Palmer PDI and having the soundman be in control of your wedge monitor, or IEM mix, controlling the listening level w/ the reamp unit-- eliminating the too loud, or can't get to the sweet spot bs.

That's true but it introduces more variables and extra cost. If you're a musician playing originals in a bar setting relying too heavily on house sound-man and gear can be sketchy. Plus if you're on a multi band bill changeover needs to be quick. How much time will you get for set up and soundcheck? How much stuff does a person want to cart around and leave locked in a van overnight? Sometimes the simplest solution is the best. It really is a matter of preference.

 

[scat7s]

You are IF you LOAD it down, and crank it to the sweet spot, then reamp it or go straight to the PA w/ something like a Palmer PDI and having the soundman be in control of your wedge monitor, or IEM mix, controlling the listening level w/ the reamp unit-- eliminating the too loud, or can't get to the sweet spot bs.

with the money you spend trying to simulate a hot amp with other outboard gear, you could have purchased a small amp.

 

[zachman]

with the money you spend trying to simulate a hot amp with other outboard gear, you could have purchased a small amp.

Incorrect assumption, "the money you spend trying to simulate a hot amp with other outboard gear".

The idea is to get the tones from one's favorite/preferred large powered amp(s) at easy listening levels vs spending $ to buy a small watt boutique amp in addition to one's favorite/preferred large powered amp(s).

I actually do have smaller gear as well, but as mentioned-- my smaller ex. Boogie MKIII 1x12 combo doesn't = low powered, and it's actually a bit smaller than a Fender Deluxe. OR I use it in a head shell, and take a separate cab (1x12 or more depending). Different tools for different jobs, though I could take the Boogie and do the gig I would use the Fender for, but not so much the other way around without adding 'other outboard gear', so the Fender can do the gain tones, similar to the Boogie crunch, & lead channels.

Some of the costs of those boutique small watt amps are up there, much more so than the cost of a Hot Plate or similar, and a power amp.

Just saying...

 

[zachman]

That's true but it introduces more variables and extra cost.

It is a pay to play game, and adding a small watt boutique amp in addition to one's 50 or 100 watt amp(s), is adding a potentially hefty extra cost, and it takes up more floor space in your house/apt.

If you're a musician playing originals in a bar setting relying too heavily on house sound-man and gear can be sketchy.

I agree

Plus if you're on a multi band bill changeover needs to be quick. How much time will you get for set up and soundcheck?

Been there/Done that. The same amount of time you would have, no matter what gear you brought. It's in those scenarios that having & choosing the appropriate gear for the gig is nice.

How much stuff does a person want to cart around and leave locked in a van overnight?

ZERO, though-- the BIG & Heavy gear is the last stuff that'd get stolen, because it's it's own anti-theft deterrent, being Big and Heavy.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best. It really is a matter of preference.

One person's simple is another's Calculus riddle.

 

[scat7s]

Incorrect assumption, "the money you spend trying to simulate a hot amp with other outboard gear".

The idea is to get the tones from one's favorite/preferred large powered amp(s) at easy listening levels vs spending $ to buy a small watt boutique amp in addition to one's favorite/preferred large powered amp(s).

I actually do have smaller gear as well, but as mentioned-- my smaller ex. Boogie MKIII 1x12 combo doesn't = low powered, and it's actually a bit smaller than a Fender Deluxe. OR I use it in a head shell, and take a separate cab (1x12 or more depending). Different tools for different jobs, though I could take the Boogie and do the gig I would use the Fender for, but not so much the other way around without adding 'other outboard gear', so the Fender can do the gain tones, similar to the Boogie crunch, & lead channels.

Some of the costs of those boutique small watt amps are up there, much more so than the cost of a Hot Plate or similar, and a power amp.

Just saying...

I wasn't necessarily talking about you specifically. you posed the scenario of a musician on a budget playing big and small gigs. with the gear you need to produce a decent facsimile of a hot amp of the high wattage variety being pushed to the power amps sweet spot, while still maintaining reasonable spls for a small environment, you could easily pick up a decent low wattage amp for the same or less money. likely less.

small amp to me is not a synonym for boutique. ymmv.

and while this is of course subjective, most people acknowledge that the more power attenuation you employ, even from high end attenuators, (which can cost as much as a nice off the shelf tube amp) your tone becomes less representative of what an unbridled amplifier sounds like at its sweet spot....high or low wattage.