Beginner: which amp to build?

[Gene Ballzz]

Pretty sure the Fender 5E3 circuit predates Marshall and Jim Marshall's designs borrowed heavily from the Fender Bassman (which postdates the Tweed Deluxe) and was known as the JTM45.

Considering that it struck me weird to refer to a Tweed Deluxe as "the closest Fender ever came to making a "Baby Marshall!""

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Love a cranked 5E3. I even like a not so cranked 5E3. Simple, flawed, and fantastic.

I was not referring to the time line, but simply alluding to the fact that Fender had already covered much of the ground that Marshall used to build their platform, fame and fortune on. And just to pick nits, there were other interesting Bassman models, prior to that 5F6-A, right alongside the Deluxe models! I must admit to not being sure which amp line started first, the 5B3 Deluxe:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2325/2729/files/Deluxe-5B3-schematic.pdf?5926397210715640943

or the 5A6 Bassman?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2325/2729/files/Bassman-5A6-Schematic.pdf?5926397210715640943

Either way, there is a rich history of variety and innovations in the early Fender amp designs & schematics! Here's a good link to most of the historical schematic and layout diagrams:

https://vintagefenderamprepair.com/pages/library-schematics-layouts

Perusing, analysing and comparing them (over a couple snifteres of your favorite beverage) can be quite enlightening and inspiring! Understanding the model numbering/lettering system can give a loosely, rough idea of the aforementioned time line.

https://vintagefenderamprepair.com/blogs/information/fender-date-codes

Just Pickin' Yer Nits!
Gene

 

[StrummerJoe]

I was not referring to the time line, but simply alluding to the fact that Fender had already covered much of the ground that Marshall used to build their platform, fame and fortune on. And just to pick nits, there were other interesting Bassman models, prior to that 5F6-A, right alongside the Deluxe models! I must admit to not being sure which amp line started first, the 5B3 Deluxe:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2325/2729/files/Deluxe-5B3-schematic.pdf?5926397210715640943

or the 5A6 Bassman?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2325/2729/files/Bassman-5A6-Schematic.pdf?5926397210715640943

Either way, there is a rich history of variety and innovations in the early Fender amp designs & schematics! Here's a good link to most of the historical schematic and layout diagrams:

https://vintagefenderamprepair.com/pages/library-schematics-layouts

Perusing, analysing and comparing them (over a couple snifteres of your favorite beverage) can be quite enlightening and inspiring! Understanding the model numbering/lettering system can give a loosely, rough idea of the aforementioned time line.

https://vintagefenderamprepair.com/blogs/information/fender-date-codes

Just Pickin' Yer Nits!
Gene

 

[RJW]

@RJW, You didn't mention what kind of music/tone you're into which would help with providing a suggestion. The all inclusive kits available provide an opportunity to get into building an amp with a great likelyhood of success. I would say preparation and patience will provide the bes results. This forum is a great place to find the answers to any questions that arise. Just don't get in a hurry, which can be hard to do once you get started!

I agree that a JTM45 is a great amp and the kit from Tube Depot looks very well put together. The Brownface Princeton would also be a great project and is probably a bit more basic in reality. The options for a JTM45 kit are far greater than the Fender circuit so keep that in mind. Whatever you decide on you can count on getting all the help you need here, whether you want it or not!

I enjoy my ‘79 DR (silver) so a vintage fender tone is something I know I usually like. I have been researching the 5e3 based on suggestions. The Vibro Champ is appealing too. I thought about it but before then one person suggested it here.

At home I prefer the clean sounds of my H&K Tubemeister and Egnater Rebel. Fender and Marshall Tube amps are good clean too.

However, I have a bunch of amps already. Like 12. So I’m not exactly focused on nailing a specific tone. Just need to get my foot in the door of amp builds. The 5e3 seems to check the boxes.

Since I only have one Marshall (DSL20hr), a Marshall circuit would be attractive. If there are Vox Circuits available like the AC15 or AC30, I’d entertain that too.

 

[RJW]

Thanks for the tips. Safety is the reason I haven’t touch the inside of an amp yet. I’m not trying to get fried.

 

[Gene Ballzz]

@RJW
FWIW, my 5E3 and DSL20CR (sometimes as a head and sometimes through it's own speaker) are my favorite two "go to" amps. With the added, totally passive effects loop (no circuitry, other than the jacks & wire) to nicely facilitate my echo and reverb "addiction" they are nearly interchangeable. I need to run my attenutor at -3.5db or -7db lower with the DSL20 than the 5E3 to achieve similar volume levels. I have identical attenuators mounted in each and am working towards building/mounting one in each amp I own, as they are so liberating! Trust me when I tell you that a well built @JohnH attenuator is the best weapon any guitarist can have in their arsenal for tone! Just imagine being able to run your '79 Deluxe Reverb at it's "just on the edge of breakup/sweet spot" volume, WITHOUT being threatened with divorce or violence from your neighbors! I'm betting you can't currently get away with that very often?

And for that matter, spending the $100-ish building one of these attenuators will be good soldering, problem solving and lead dress practice for a great amp build!

Just Attenuatin'
Gene

 

[Chris-in-LA]

Another consideration would be the tweed 5f11, a Vibrolux. It’s twice the wattage of the Champ and has a fixed bias. It’s louder than a Champ but not as loud as the 5e3 and is pretty clean until you turn it way up.

https://www.mojotone.com/Mojotone-Tweed-Vibrolux-Style-Amp-Kit

 

[paul-e-mann]

@RJW
FWIW, my 5E3 and DSL20CR (sometimes as a head and sometimes through it's own speaker) are my favorite two "go to" amps. With the added, totally passive effects loop (no circuitry, other than the jacks & wire) to nicely facilitate my echo and reverb "addiction" they are nearly interchangeable. I need to run my attenutor at -3.5db or -7db lower with the DSL20 than the 5E3 to achieve similar volume levels. I have identical attenuators mounted in each and am working towards building/mounting one in each amp I own, as they are so liberating! Trust me when I tell you that a well built @JohnH attenuator is the best weapon any guitarist can have in their arsenal for tone! Just imagine being able to run your '79 Deluxe Reverb at it's "just on the edge of breakup/sweet spot" volume, WITHOUT being threatened with divorce or violence from your neighbors! I'm betting you can't currently get away with that very often?

And for that matter, spending the $100-ish building one of these attenuators will be good soldering, problem solving and lead dress practice for a great amp build!

Just Attenuatin'
Gene

From what I see the 5E3 has 6V6 power tubes so it should be able to get some good tone at fairly low volume without an attenuator no?

 

[Gene Ballzz]

Another consideration would be the tweed 5f11, a Vibrolux. It’s twice the wattage of the Champ and has a fixed bias. It’s louder than a Champ but not as loud as the 5e3 and is pretty clean until you turn it way up.

https://www.mojotone.com/Mojotone-Tweed-Vibrolux-Style-Amp-Kit

Another very ggod suggestion. However, getting the tremolo/vibrato just right can be a little challenging for a first go 'round! Especially given the overall nature of the operation of a "bias wiggle" style tremolo! If he were to go that route, it might be wise to become a member over at TDPRI and pick the brains of the Fender style amp fanatics in the "Shock Brothers DIY Amps" sub forum! But I believe you already know that!

From what I see the 5E3 has 6V6 power tubes so it should be able to get some good tone at fairly low volume without an attenuator no?

yes indeed, some absolutely stellar, world class tones can be had at fairly low volumes, but it is very difficult to resist turning up a bit, because it sounds so good and often even harder to resist turning it up even more for that glorious almost Marshall-ish grind! A great Tele into a Tweed Deluxe is about the most blatantly and brutally honest rig to ever play through and you'd better be pretty darned good, because it will hide nothing!

Just My $.02,
Gene

 

[paul-e-mann]

Another very ggod suggestion. However, getting the tremolo/vibrato just right can be a little challenging for a first go 'round! Especially given the overall nature of the operation of a "bias wiggle" style tremolo! If he were to go that route, it might be wise to become a member over at TDPRI and pick the brains of the Fender style amp fanatics in the "Shock Brothers DIY Amps" sub forum! But I believe you already know that!



yes indeed, some absolutely stellar, world class tones can be had at fairly low volumes, but it is very difficult to resist turning up a bit, because it sound so good and often even harder to resist turning it up even more for that glorious almost Marshall-ish grind!

Just My $.02,
Gene

You guys are getting me interested in this 5E3, a combo in particular!

 

[George Dickens]

All good suggestions however kits are usually of the most common variety .

If it were I I would try one that is more rare.

Recipes are avaiable on line for things such as the schematics at the tubestore.

Perhaps smallish one like a Matchless Hurricane, Lightening or even a Tornado might be more fun in the end.

Getting up a parts list- sourcing, locating and getting parts
is part of the learning experience.
you can also make connections with otherss who can offer advice and assist.
Kit is simpler but expensive too-
Money may be spent on an good electronics course where perhaps you could build an amp as a project.
Once you know how to do it if you have a good skill set yand resources you could build any amp you want.
Eventually gaining potential to do stereo audiophile grade amps.

Good luck on the design you choose
Heres some useful info;
https://Reverb(dot)com/ca/news/5-classic-amp-circuits-and-their-modern-boutique-counterparts

 

[Chris-in-LA]

Yes, a Telecaster through a 5e3 does sound great and is capable of Marshall style grind. It’s a great amp but quite loud at home without an attenuator. It can get nice tone at a moderate level, but it’s hard to resist turning it up. I was playing mine in my father’s garage with the door open recently and neighbors came out to check it out. I was surprised that they could hear it inside their homes.

 

[Dblgun]

The 5F11 is a great circuit, I prefer the tremolo in these amps to others. I have a 2x10 combo that has a switchable bias circuit that allows 5Y3/6V6's or GZ34/5881's. Essentially a Harvard with a tremolo.

 

[Marcomel79]

successful amp building is highly addictive!

Truer words were never spoken

 

[Gene Ballzz]

You guys are getting me interested in this 5E3, a combo in particular!

Yeah, but to enjoy it fully, I still highly recommend a @JohnH ateenuator. Trust me when I tell you that the Weber MiniMass you sold me doesn't even come close to holding a candle to the JohnH unit! While I still love that MiniMass, for what it is and it was the best choice, at the time, this new design is in a class of it's own!

Just Tweedin'
Gene

 

[Springfield Scooter]

You guys are getting me interested in this 5E3, a combo in particular!

Me too!

 

[Springfield Scooter]

Yeah, but to enjoy it fully, I still highly recommend a @JohnH ateenuator. Trust me when I tell you that the Weber MiniMass you sold me doesn't even come close to holding a candle to the JohnH unit! While I still love that MiniMass, for what it is and it was the best choice, at the time, this new design is in a class of it's own!

Just Tweedin'
Gene

Gene...Do you have a link for more details on Johns attenuator ? Thanks in advance.

 

[JohnH]

Gene...Do you have a link for more details on Johns attenuator ? Thanks in advance.

Here's our thread:

https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/simple-attenuators-design-and-testing.98285/

I suggest to read post 1, then skip to about page 100 onward, and particukarly recently pages 111 onwards

 

[paul-e-mann]

So whats the main differences betwen a 5E3 and say a Blues Jr? Blues Jr seems to have more features going on. How do they compare tonally?

 

[Gene Ballzz]

Like @JohnH said Post #1 has all the technical details, while those later pages physical logistics, layouts and builds that folks have been refining!
Happy Attenuatin'
Gene

 

[playloud]

My advice would be to pick an amp you'd love to own and build that. That's what I did, and it's certainly been fun so far. The one caveat is that I haven't actually completed this build, so I can't guarantee I'm not setting you up for failure here! (Are there any such guarantees?)

However, I've found that principle is useful for learning skills in general, whether cooking or computer programming.

The only exception would be if you dearly want to build a Hiwatt. In that case, I would start with something with less... exacting lead dress.