Better player, thanks to Marshall!

[FrostyTheSnake]

Excuse if wrong sub.

Just want to share my experience going from Kemper to Marshall.

Kemper/AxeFX ect are great platforms indeed and sound ace! BUT since moving to all valve Marshall (SC20H) it’s been a real eye opener. Modelling is very forgiving with your playing, notes blend into one, tonal range is balance no mid hump (I’ll get onto that) all with excellent balanced stereo coming through studio monitors often.

Upon getting the Marshall it has really made me work harder and progress as a player. That mid range is very unforgiving in Marshall. I LOVE IT! That is what pushing the amp to cut through a band and exactly where the tonal range of the guitar fits in a band situation. It’s intimidating and hard to play a Marshall with a 4/12 loud. For that reason I believe it really makes you a better player. Everything is under a microscope. It’s made me appreciate people like EVH even more playing a plexi with very little drive and keeping everything so precise, clean and retaining swing, groove and impeccable timing. Just golden stuff.

So anyone that wants to go back old school and go valves I highly recommend it. Especially combined with Captor X ect, best of both worlds.

Marshall you rock!

 

[anitoli]

You get out what you put in. I just can not see how any modeler can be inspiring when the whole basis of the unit is to clone the sound of the real deal amp. Imitated but never duplicated. Tubes baby the only way i roll and i like the workout they can give, 59HW improved my playing tenfold.

 

[Igor_torcamaniac]

Excuse if wrong sub.

Just want to share my experience going from Kemper to Marshall.

Kemper/AxeFX ect are great platforms indeed and sound ace! BUT since moving to all valve Marshall (SC20H) it’s been a real eye opener. Modelling is very forgiving with your playing, notes blend into one, tonal range is balance no mid hump (I’ll get onto that) all with excellent balanced stereo coming through studio monitors often.

Upon getting the Marshall it has really made me work harder and progress as a player. That mid range is very unforgiving in Marshall. I LOVE IT! That is what pushing the amp to cut through a band and exactly where the tonal range of the guitar fits in a band situation. It’s intimidating and hard to play a Marshall with a 4/12 loud. For that reason I believe it really makes you a better player. Everything is under a microscope. It’s made me appreciate people like EVH even more playing a plexi with very little drive and keeping everything so precise, clean and retaining swing, groove and impeccable timing. Just golden stuff.

So anyone that wants to go back old school and go valves I highly recommend it. Especially combined with Captor X ect, best of both worlds.

Marshall you rock!

Hi,

I definitely agree. Although, when you play a Marshall tube amp at home at very low volume it can be just as easy as a modeler. But when you turn those babies up to a gigging volume it is a completely different story and a lot harder to play. It is as you say the notes don't blend into one another in a creamy way and the sustain is not the same. You really need to push yourself to play more dynamically. Funny I find it easier using cleaner sounds. The more drive you use the uglier it sounds. I guess a less drive with a compressor could help here sometimes. I had many but never used them. I might just start experimenting with them when I get to it.
But this is not the point. If you want to get better you should try to master it the hard way.

One way would be to play the guitar as dry as you can but again that could be very uninspiring. Or even better to train on an acoustic. If you master this and go over to your electric and amp, that same thing you mastered dry would be easy peasy.

 

[solarburn]

You get out what you put in. i like the workout they can give, 59HW improved my playing tenfold.

Absolutely. These kinda of Marshall’s make me want to wring the neck off my guitar as I exert my will over it.

Some times I win. Sometimes I yield. I never quit. Too Daem much fun!!!

 

[giblesp]

Excuse if wrong sub.

Just want to share my experience going from Kemper to Marshall.

Kemper/AxeFX ect are great platforms indeed and sound ace! BUT since moving to all valve Marshall (SC20H) it’s been a real eye opener. Modelling is very forgiving with your playing, notes blend into one, tonal range is balance no mid hump (I’ll get onto that) all with excellent balanced stereo coming through studio monitors often.

Upon getting the Marshall it has really made me work harder and progress as a player. That mid range is very unforgiving in Marshall. I LOVE IT! That is what pushing the amp to cut through a band and exactly where the tonal range of the guitar fits in a band situation. It’s intimidating and hard to play a Marshall with a 4/12 loud. For that reason I believe it really makes you a better player. Everything is under a microscope. It’s made me appreciate people like EVH even more playing a plexi with very little drive and keeping everything so precise, clean and retaining swing, groove and impeccable timing. Just golden stuff.

So anyone that wants to go back old school and go valves I highly recommend it. Especially combined with Captor X ect, best of both worlds.

Marshall you rock!

That's actually been my experience, I went from Kemper to a Marshall JVM. The Marshall is indeed less forgiving than the Kemper, meaning you have to refine your technique. The result has been way better tone.

I then applied that to my Kemper, and got better results with recording also. I'll also use my Marshall as a reference point, when refining tones for recording with the Kemper. My JVM gave me an understanding and deeper appreciation, of what the Kemper is doing.

Didn't have any luck when recording with Captor X, but its worth trying as many do.

 

[marshallmellowed]

That's actually been my experience, I went from Kemper to a Marshall JVM. The Marshall is indeed less forgiving than the Kemper, meaning you have to refine your technique. The result has been way better tone.

I then applied that to my Kemper, and got better results with recording also. I'll also use my Marshall as a reference point, when refining tones for recording with the Kemper. My JVM gave me an understanding and deeper appreciation, of what the Kemper is doing.

Didn't have any luck when recording with Captor X, but its worth trying as many do.

This has been my approach since purchasing my first Fractal. My Marshalls are the "reference". I go back and forth playing both on a daily basis (when I can), and if the Fractal doesn't feel or sound "right", I make whatever change is necessary. After several years of using both, I now rarely make a change to the Fractal, and it's been the perfect solution "for me" for gigging. Setup right, both are just as inspiring to play through, but everyone needs at least one good Marshall (IMO).

 

[El Gringo]

You get out what you put in. I just can not see how any modeler can be inspiring when the whole basis of the unit is to clone the sound of the real deal amp. Imitated but never duplicated. Tubes baby the only way i roll and i like the workout they can give, 59HW improved my playing tenfold.

There is nothing that compares to pushing air and feeling it . The quality of my tone in general increased by a million% percent and that is not an exaggeration . That's why I love my Marshall 2555X's so much . To me it's like my tone is studio quality , and mixed by a sound engineer , it's really that good . Growing up and playing Fender Twin Reverbs , which were awesome for cleans with reverb . I have used every dirt (distortion, fuzz, and overdrive ) pedal imaginable and all the while I was chasing that tone in my head that of course was courtesy of the King of Loud -none other than the Guvnor Marshall !!!!!!!!!!! (P.S. no reverb and no dirt pedals needed )

 

[giblesp]

You get out what you put in. I just can not see how any modeler can be inspiring when the whole basis of the unit is to clone the sound of the real deal amp. Imitated but never duplicated. Tubes baby the only way i roll and i like the workout they can give, 59HW improved my playing tenfold.

Can you get the same tone recording your tube amp though? Not possible for me to crank and mic.

I use Kemper and more recently a couple of Neural DSP plugins(not for high gain), and find them very inspirational not just for recording, but for late night practice when I can't play loud.

I'll sometimes switch between my Kemper and Marshall, to set a recording tone.

The ability to load a recording chain with the click of a mouse, is amazing. As is the ability to take a laptop, small interface out and about for recording.

For actual playing; I agree. Nothing beats tube.

 

[anitoli]

Can you get the same tone recording your tube amp though? Not possible for me to crank and mic.

I use Kemper and more recently a couple of Neural DSP plugins(not for high gain), and find them very inspirational not just for recording, but for late night practice when I can't play loud.

I'll sometimes switch between my Kemper and Marshall, to set a recording tone.

The ability to load a recording chain with the click of a mouse, is amazing. As is the ability to take a laptop, small interface out and about for recording.

For actual playing; I agree. Nothing beats tube.

Fortunately i don't have volume restrictions where i live so yes i can get the tone anytime. I think about it the same as Malmsteen I'm not making compromises under any terms. Irregardless of how great the digital tech may be i ain't using it, don't need it, and don't want it. I want an amp not a copy machine. And that's how i see a Kemper. There is no originality. It's just ripping off the brain work of many talented engineers who designed these circuits that we love so much. Even in a market that is heavily saturated with products companies still have been able to carve out distinct tones such as Mesa and Orange. What does Kemper offer? Mesa and Orange and everything else cause they "profiled" it / stole it.

 

[giblesp]

Fortunately i don't have volume restrictions where i live so yes i can get the tone anytime. I think about it the same as Malmsteen I'm not making compromises under any terms. Irregardless of how great the digital tech may be i ain't using it, don't need it, and don't want it. I want an amp not a copy machine. And that's how i see a Kemper. There is no originality. It's just ripping off the brain work of many talented engineers who designed these circuits that we love so much. Even in a market that is heavily saturated with products companies still have been able to carve out distinct tones such as Mesa and Orange. What does Kemper offer? Mesa and Orange and everything else cause they "profiled" it / stole it.

Fair enough but my point is take your volume restrictions away, and you'll be considering other options.

Thing is, you are still using a DAW, post EQ, compression etc on computer right? Post reverb? That's just ripping off analog tech. So the digital revolution has caught up with everyone, in one way or another.

 

[anitoli]

Fair enough but my point is take your volume restrictions away, and you'll be considering other options.

Thing is, you are still using a DAW, post EQ, compression etc on computer right? Post reverb? That's just ripping off analog tech. So the digital revolution has caught up with everyone, in one way or another.

A 6100 with low volume compensation carried me through the apartment years.....lol.
But yes i see your point. It's why we have choices, right?

 

[What?]

Still tubes all the way for me. It's fun to poke around with amp sim stuff once in a while to get grounded again. Any advances I ever made in my playing have been while feeling inspired playing through a tube amp. I could sure use a lot more of those advances, playing more through a cranked amp, but having a family has it's tradeoffs.

 

[marshallmellowed]

It just depends on one's needs. The thread title contains "Better player, thanks to Marshall". Yes, playing through any tube amp at low to medium gain will make anyone a better player. This can be accomplished by doing the same through any amp or modeler, whether it be Marshall, Fender, Fractal, Kemper, or whatever. For myself, I feel I'm a better player for realizing what tech works best for a given situation. Playing in a couple of cover bands, I wanted flexibility in it's most compact form. For me, in that situation, it's the Fractal unit (AX8). Not the latest and greatest Fractal, but does everything I need. Going from The Beatles to Boston, to Motley Crue ("D" Tuning) with the press of one button is a huge advantage in those situations. No amp, cab, or board full of pedals, no de-tuned guitars, just a guitar and the Fractal floor unit. I understand that some don't need for that level of flexibility or portability, and some just play at home, all good. When I'm home, wife is out or at work, it's time to crank the Marshall's. Guess my point is, what makes a better player (IMO), is keeping an open mind and using what best fits the situation.

 

[V-man]

10 pm- 3am: the Captor X and headphones come on.
noon- 8pm: Raw MV or NMV w PS-100

100W all day. choices are great.

 

[FrostyTheSnake]

All great comments everyone! Brilliant forum!

 

[Eric'45]

A big part of that is not the sound, but the Volume itself. I also use modelers and Software for practising and sketching out Ideas late at night. Many times I have a Riff or a song Idea recorded with a modeler, that I record with my real Amps at full blast later. When listening to these Tracks back to back, the sound can be dialed in very similar. But what differs in most of the cases is the way I play it.
When playing a modeler through Headphones or Monitors, the difference between a soft pick attack and a heavy hand is less pronounced. The dynamic range is limited. IMO that is the biggest difference- and it has more to do with feel.

 

[What?]

When playing a modeler through Headphones or Monitors, the difference between a soft pick attack and a heavy hand is less pronounced. The dynamic range is limited. IMO that is the biggest difference- and it has more to do with feel.

I have actually noticed the opposite, sort of. When recording an amp the signal is much more compressed, but the amp sounds much more dynamic in person in the room, probably due to the volume in the room. When recording through a sim the signal is much more dynamic, but it sounds less dynamic than an amp in person in the room, probably due to much lower volume through headphones. Sims also tend to sound thinner, which is probably due to lack of compression that the amp has, and I tend to follow a sim with a compressor of some sort.

 

[Ray Baker]

Fortunately i don't have volume restrictions where i live so yes i can get the tone anytime. I think about it the same as Malmsteen I'm not making compromises under any terms. Irregardless of how great the digital tech may be i ain't using it, don't need it, and don't want it. I want an amp not a copy machine. And that's how i see a Kemper. There is no originality. It's just ripping off the brain work of many talented engineers who designed these circuits that we love so much. Even in a market that is heavily saturated with products companies still have been able to carve out distinct tones such as Mesa and Orange. What does Kemper offer? Mesa and Orange and everything else cause they "profiled" it / stole it.

I tend to think of them as "Transgender Amps" they want to be something they are not and the fact is they'll never have the "Balls" that real ones have.

 

[6StringMoFo]

Excuse if wrong sub.

Just want to share my experience going from Kemper to Marshall.

Kemper/AxeFX ect are great platforms indeed and sound ace! BUT since moving to all valve Marshall (SC20H) it’s been a real eye opener. Modelling is very forgiving with your playing, notes blend into one, tonal range is balance no mid hump (I’ll get onto that) all with excellent balanced stereo coming through studio monitors often.

Upon getting the Marshall it has really made me work harder and progress as a player. That mid range is very unforgiving in Marshall. I LOVE IT! That is what pushing the amp to cut through a band and exactly where the tonal range of the guitar fits in a band situation. It’s intimidating and hard to play a Marshall with a 4/12 loud. For that reason I believe it really makes you a better player. Everything is under a microscope. It’s made me appreciate people like EVH even more playing a plexi with very little drive and keeping everything so precise, clean and retaining swing, groove and impeccable timing. Just golden stuff.

So anyone that wants to go back old school and go valves I highly recommend it. Especially combined with Captor X ect, best of both worlds.

Marshall you rock!

Agreed.

Marshalls can be unforgiving to your playing in the best way.

Screwed around with a few plugins for silent recording. Couldn't get past the sketchy guitar volume roll off response.

My new plugin.

 

[Eric'45]

I have actually noticed the opposite, sort of. When recording an amp the signal is much more compressed, but the amp sounds much more dynamic in person in the room, probably due to the volume in the room. When recording through a sim the signal is much more dynamic, but it sounds less dynamic than an amp in person in the room, probably due to much lower volume through headphones. Sims also tend to sound thinner, which is probably due to lack of compression that the amp has, and I tend to follow a sim with a compressor of some sort.

I do agree with you. It depends on what is used to listen back while playing.
I should have made clear I'm talking about the feel "in the room".
Most of the Modelers are set up to sound like a recording- like sitting in the control room and listening to the mic'ed sound of the Amp without hearing the Amp itself. For me, as an amateur, that is impossible to archieve, since I can't isolate my Amps so well that I don't hear them while I record. Maybe that is where the "inspiration" comes from- the actual recorded signal sounds compressed just like the modeler, but while I play, it's different, because I experience the live "Amp in the room " feel.