Can I get a decent attenuator for a DSL40cr for under $300-400?

[scozz]

I had a 40c. Sounded very good at higher volumes, gain down. Lower volumes with the gain up sounded fizzy.

As John said driving the power amp some is a different kind of tone..more crunchy 800ish tone..less fizz. So I think using an attenuator can be beneficial just to take a few dbs off, and to open up "that" tone a bit. I use attenuators that way with my mv 800s.

Also Clean boosting the front end tightens things up too.

All good points Gunner, I use an attenuator with my little SC20 for the same reasons. I prefer to drive the power tubes for overdriven tones than the preamp tubes. Although I must admit the SCs' preamp section sounds great! Even a 20 watt Marshall can get real loud driving the power tubes without an attenuator.

 

[BanditPanda]

I’ve heard this here also, I could be wrong but for some reason I think I heard it from @Gene Ballzz, but I may be mistaken.

If that’s accurate, than there’s no need to drive the power tubes. If there’s no need to drive the power tubes, there’s no need for an attenuator.

Hey scozz..you ignoring me?!!
Hey scozz. Does the MV control the amount of juice getting to the power tubes?
That is to say the volume control allows the pushing of the pre amp tubes and the MV regulates the amount of that juice getting to the PT's?
You see what I'm getting at.
BP

 

[scozz]

I would go for the 50W Weber mini mass

The Weber Minimass is only recommended for amps up to 35 watt.

 

[junk notes]

Another option I have seen (from another thread) is the $49 power soak pedal. It can be used in effects loops, or between the head and cab, but needs to get the designated build type to handle your amps wattage (as there are several models that all look exactly the same.)

My only question is "what if" you need to have an extension cab bringing the ohms to half? Easily adjusted on a normal attenuator setting.

 

[miyaru]

For the price of an attenuator you can buy a DSL1CR combo which sounds great at bed room volume - as it is made for this........ I have one and love it, and BTW I use it at 0,1 watt setting.

 

[Gunner64]

All good points Gunner, I use an attenuator with my little SC20 for the same reasons. I prefer to drive the power tubes for overdriven tones than the preamp tubes. Although I must admit the SCs' preamp section sounds great! Even a 20 watt Marshall can get real loud driving the power tubes without an attenuator.

Yea, I think any attenuator if used to squish things down to t.v. volumes chops the highs, even ones that compensate for loss of highs chop a bit off over all, but in my experience with my mv, and non mv amps even my cheap Bugera ps1 works excellent just to lower volume at the sweet spot below uncomfortable levels...they're really not designed to keep anyone from getting evicted from their apartment..lol.

The best attenuator I ever used was my wireless, and moving 2 rooms away from my amps..

 

[Gunner64]

For the price of an attenuator you can buy a DSL1CR combo which sounds great at bed room volume - as it is made for this........ I have one and love it, and BTW I use it at 0,1 watt setting.

I have the head. Sounds great at low volumes. But like all proper marshalls digs a clean boost..try it if you haven't.

 

[miyaru]

Haven't tried a clean boost, but an almost clean boost with my Okko Diablo Gain+.....

 

[Kochens]

The Weber Minimass is only recommended for amps up to 35 watt.

I used it with a 50 W tube amp without any problems(speakers too)

 

[BanditPanda]

The Guitarist’s Guide to Electric Guitar Amps – Part 2: Preamp
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/guitarists-guide-electric-guitar-amps-part-2/

 

[scozz]

Hey scozz..you ignoring me?!!
Hey scozz. Does the MV control the amount of juice getting to the power tubes?
That is to say the volume control allows the pushing of the pre amp tubes and the MV regulates the amount of that juice getting to the PT's?
You see what I'm getting at.
BP

No Bandit, I'm not ignoring you, I thought you were just having a bit of fun with me asking that question, cause I don't completely understand this stuff! LOL!

I could fit in a thimble the knowledge I have about guitar amplification, soooo ,....

I always thought the channel volume control drives the power tubes, if you want to push the power tubes to distort, you crank the volume. On the other side, I've always thought the gain knob drives the preamp tubes to distort.

As far as Masters volumes goes, I always thought a MV was a separate volume that works for all channels, and used to mix with the channel volumes. Today it seems, sometimes, the channel volume is referred to as a MVs, I guess it's a matter of semantics. So to answer your question, I don't know if a "real" MV drives the power tubes.



(Btw, is the word "thimble" still a word these days? )

 

[scozz]

I used it with a 50 W tube amp without any problems(speakers too)

Oh I'm sure many have, and it's most likely fine if you don't push it too hard. But that doesn't change the manufacturers recommendation of 35 watts max!

I wouldn't want to take any chances damaging my amp or speakers just to save a few bucks on a attenuator that's not recommended for my amp.

 

[scozz]

The Guitarist’s Guide to Electric Guitar Amps – Part 2: Preamp
https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/guitarists-guide-electric-guitar-amps-part-2/

Thanks for that Bandit, informative link.

 

[SkyMonkey]

If it helps at all @BanditPanda, I have sort of pinned the MVs down to being after the presence and resonance controls (I think).

Something like this:

Channel Gain - Channel Volume - EQ & Tone Shift - FX Send - FX Return - Reverb - E/Out - Presence & Resonance - Master Volumes

*Edit* This is all wrong!

 

[BanditPanda]

Excellent, Sky. Now Would you place the Pre amp tubes and the Power amp tubes in that path you have created.
BP

 

[BanditPanda]

No Bandit, I'm not ignoring you, I thought you were just having a bit of fun with me asking that question, cause I don't completely understand this stuff! LOL!

I could fit in a thimble the knowledge I have about guitar amplification, soooo ,....

I always thought the channel volume control drives the power tubes, if you want to push the power tubes to distort, you crank the volume. On the other side, I've always thought the gain knob drives the preamp tubes to distort.

As far as Masters volumes goes, I always thought a MV was a separate volume that works for all channels, and used to mix with the channel volumes. Today it seems, sometimes, the channel volume is referred to as a MVs, I guess it's a matter of semantics. So to answer your question, I don't know if a "real" MV drives the power tubes.

(Btw, is the word "thimble" still a word these days? )

Thanks scozz.
Yes " thimble " is still a word..in fact zachman has said that he has used multiple thimbles playing slide guitar!!! I think he a picture of that somewhere Hey zachman!!!

BP

 

[JohnH]

The only way to really get the tone of power-tube distortion is to have distorting power tubes. This means they have to be run at high power which means that unless they are going through some kind of attenuator or control device after the power amp, they have to be loud.

Nothing in the fx loop will do this, and achieves nothing other than being another MV, which DSLs already have. PPIMV's can help, but still not the same.

That's not to say you cant get wonderful overdrive tones at low volumes with DSL's though, I'm sure you can with the right settings and maybe the right pedals. My old DSL401 has its best overdrive tone at low volume using its green channel with help form one of my pedals (OD-3 or Hardwire CM-2 or SC-2 are my favorites) and actually the best overall tone is MV about 5, above that its louder but it struggles to hold the tone together. My VM is different, much more designed to drive those output tubes.

 

[Kelia]

I've used a bunch in recent years- many big names like Weber, THD, SPL etc. only one i kept was the Rivera Rockcrusher- should be able to find a used one for your price range.

On the 40C it definitely will cure fizzy tones because you raise the master way up- say 2 oclcock+, which under attenuation adds a midrange tonality reminiscent of old marshalls as the PI/Power section gets much more involved. If you can't get your master way up without attenuation, you will definitely appreciate the difference in tone- the DSL smooths out and can even sound "plexi/metalface-ish" on the green crunch channel.

The big issue is that attenuators sits between your speaker and amp, and even the best reactive ones affect the "feel" and the way the speaker interacts with the amp, which affects playing dynamics, attack, keeps the speaker from contributing as much as it normally would, etc. It's a sort of "detached" or "disconnected" feeling ( like a digital modelling amp) which drives me bonkers. Some attenuators, some pretty highly regarded ones i felt were really horrible for this feel. The Rockcrusher was the clear winner, and that's why I kept it. As the DSL already squashes dynamics compared to many other amps, I hardly use it anymore- even with the Rockcrusher, I find it too squashed.

i guess if you are playing with lots of gain and high output pickups, this is less of an issue (attenuation), as there is alot of signal and gain going on. But I don't.

This is a great post !
I think that everyone should listen to this video till the end even if you're not going for a RockCrusher , very informative and will prevent futur regrets !

 

[What?]

I haven't had the chance to crank up other DSL's, but my DSL50 definitely does benefit from using an attenuator. Probably not as much as non master volume amps, but it definitely compresses, gets a little more overdrive, and thickens up. I don't use any overdrive pedals with that amp, spending 90% of my time with it on the green channel, master between 7-10, and the preamp varies according to what I'm playing at the moment. For most stuff it sounds best to me with the master and preamp up high but shy of full on, using my guitar's volume knob to clean up and knock back some of the cut while playing the rhythm stuff, and rolling the guitar volume up for acting as my 'overdrive pedal' and tone control. This gives me a very simple one-knob control to do everything with within a song, where I might make some adjustments at the amp for other songs. Trying to do this without the attenuator just doesn't work at reasonable volumes (according to my mortal neighbors). It sounds too fizzy and thin, and too dynamic and peaky.

I would definitely do some reading in JohnH's attenuator thread in the Workbench section of the forum as well as watch part of a video that was posted in that thread recently of a discussion with John Suhr and David Friedman in which they talk about attenuators, before buying one (or building one). And if you're thinking about a Weber attenuator, search that thread first. The short of it being that at less than a 16 ohm load Weber attenuators are much less reactive. And it may be the case that others are less reactive too. It seems that no one out there is talking about the technical side of these products and testing the things for performance and safety to amps. At least catch the things talked about in the mentioned video about upside down impedance curves and flyback voltages. I can't time link a video here, so you'll have to copy and paste this link:

Ep. 77 - FAQs with John Suhr and Dave! Common Questions and Ones That Drive Them Crazy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gw9MCimMuE&t=10m40s

After my experience with a Weber attenuator and the info from JohnH and John Suhr, I would definitely be leery of just buying and using any attenuator.

 

[Georgiatec]

I just bought one of these for use with my bigger amps. Played it with my SV20h yesterday, sounds really good. Very little tone suck. For sixty-odd quid, you can't go wrong.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_pa_100_power_attenuator.htm