Can't connect Marshall amp to Marshall head, need help!

[RLW59]

what's the point of the head then if the sound won't change as you mentioned above? The amp I have for some time, the head I can return if necessary, what would you suggest for better sound or else?

The point of a combo is convenience and simplicity. But that creates limitations and requires compromises in the speaker cab part of the equation.

The point of a head is flexibility. You can run it through a 112 one day, a 215 the next, a 412 on the weekend. Or you might like a particular cab better than the combo cab, and just use that cab all the time.

And while a combo with 1 or 2 speakers is a little easier to lug around than a head plus a cab with 1 or two speakers, with a 412 or two 412's putting the weight of the amp in a separate headshell is much easier on your back.

At home, you can put the head on a table next to you where it's a short reach to turn the knobs, and use a long cable to put the speaker on the other side of the room.

In combos the tubes and solder joints get pummeled by the sound pressure level vibrating everything. And the heat of the tubes rises, baking the resistors and caps. Heads isolate the electronics from vibration to some degree, and usually have better heat management. So they can be (slightly) more reliable and durable.

Of course you can disconnect a combo speaker and plug in to a separate cab. So a combo can give you the same flexibility as a head. But then you're lugging around the weight of the speaker and the extra wood.
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Using an Ori50H to drive an Ori50C's speaker is pointless because the electronics are the same. But if you had bought a different model head, you would indeed hear a difference. Some people will run a new head through their old combo while they're shopping for a cab. Or unplug their head from their cab and run it through a combo's speaker just for the different sound of the combo speaker.
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The vast majority of amps are combos. Because heads and cabs can get infinitely complex and overwhelming. Impedance, power handling, sensitivity/efficiency, type of cab, type of speaker, the correct cables (never use a guitar cable to connect an amp to a cab).

Open back, sealed, ported (at least 6 different types of ports). Cabs can have 1, 2, or 4 speakers -- even some unusual 3, 6, or 8 speaker cabs. Every model of speaker has a unique sound -- and they all sound different when you put them in different cabs.

Of course everything about guitars is an abyss. Rabbit holes that just keep branching out and going deeper. Guitar models, types of pickups and strings and picks. Dozens of ways to play an E chord.

 

[RLW59]

I'd suggest you start simple. Instead of getting a different head or buying a speaker cab, consider just replacing the speaker in your 50C.

The stock Celestion Midnight 60E is a "cost effective" speaker, chosen mostly because it's relatively inexpensive. It's not terrible, but it's not one of Celestion's legendary, sought after, used-on-thousands-of-classic-recordings speakers. (Some of the Ori cabs have Celestion 70/80 speakers, which are similarly low price "not bad but certainly not great" speakers.)

The Midnight 60E is noted as being a bit dark and muddy sounding. Since you said, "I wanted to get better sound quality on higher frequency or just in general better sound", I think a speaker replacement is exactly what you're looking for.

Start a new thread in the "cabinets and speakers" section asking for advice on "replacement speaker for Ori50C".

(Short simple suggestion is a Celestion V-30 16 ohm, but there are tons of other options.)

 

[Matthews Guitars]

In this case I'm not sure that recommending a speaker change is the right approach. He might not be clear on what category of speakers is appropriate. He might end up buying a woofer from a car audio store. Or worse.

 

[RLW59]

In this case I'm not sure that recommending a speaker change is the right approach. He might not be clear on what category of speakers is appropriate. He might end up buying a woofer from a car audio store. Or worse.

That's why I suggested he start a dedicated thread about speakers for his amp and ask questions and get suggestions and guidance before jumping into it.

Going from combos to heads and cabs can be daunting. It's pretty straightforward to those of us who have dealt with both for a long time -- hard to remember when it was all a mystery.

As soon as someone explained the difference between a combo, a head, and a cab, the light bulb lit up over his head. I have confidence he can figure out a speaker change.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

Yeah, my first "real" amp was a head and I had to start by building a cabinet for it. That was actually a '73 Fender Pro Reverb that a previous owner had chopped to a head. I forget that dealing with separate heads and cabinets is usually at a later stage in most people's guitar amp ownership adventures.

I prefer heads to combos in the vast majority of cases. In part because I don't really care for the tone of open back cabinets. With the exception of certain Fender amps, of course, because that's the classic Fender tone we have become so accustomed to.

 

[Resident 217]

OMG thank you so much for clarifying all that this is what I needed, that's where I was confused and lost, I wanted to get better sound quality on higher frequency or just in general better sound, throught the head will surve this purpose, what's the point of the head then if the sound won't change as you mentioned above? The amp I have for some time, the head I can return if necessary, what would you suggest for better sound or else?

BTW, looks like everything works I didn't get a change to damage it yet, cause I didn't connect it properly I guess

With the head you can use a closed back cab. It sounds different, the amp can be turned up further.
A combo cab is not "closed back" as the tubes need a vent for air to cool.
A simple cost effective 1x12 closed back cab like a Marshall mx112 with the typical Seventy-80 Celestion will work fine for a 50w head.

 

[piterbish]

Now I understand the difference between amp, head and cab to be honest I've played guitar for many years as a hobby, just never got into speakers that deep, always used amp and never got into it, what would you suggest for removing that guitar buzzing noise and get better sound, for a home performance, should I just get a stronger amp or get a combo cab for my head I already have, what top quality amp you would recommend and/or head and cab combo, as I mentioned before I want top quality, not budget option, price is irrelevant, need something really good. Thank you all for your answers and suggestions, you really helped me figure this out.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Now I understand the difference between amp, head and cab to be honest I've played guitar for many years as a hobby, just never got into speakers that deep, always used amp and never got into it, what would you suggest for removing that guitar buzzing noise and get better sound, for a home performance, should I just get a stronger amp or get a combo cab for my head I already have, what top quality amp you would recommend and/or head and cab combo, as I mentioned before I want top quality, not budget option, price is irrelevant, need something really good. Thank you all for your answers and suggestions, you really helped me figure this out.

Need waaaay more info I'm afraid.
"Guitar buzzing noise and better sound...".. meaning? The distortion sound is buzzy with the Origin combo?
What do you mean by better? More high end? See the comments about changing out the speaker.
What kind of music? Does your guitar have fret buzz?
Home performamce you do not need a stronger amp.
Quality of sound is very subjective.
Speaker changes make a huge difference.
Do you have a bunchnof effects hooked up as well?

 

[fitz]

what would you suggest for removing that guitar buzzing noise and get better sound

What guitar do you have?
Single coil pickups can be noisier than humbucker pickups.

should I just get a stronger amp or get a combo cab for my head I already have

You have a combo (amp & speaker combination) and a head - both are Origin 50 models.
You need a speaker cab if you want to just use the head.
50 watts is a "strong" amp, plenty loud enough for a home performance.

what top quality amp you would recommend and/or head and cab combo, as I mentioned before I want top quality, not budget option, price is irrelevant, need something really good.

The Origin amp series is likely considered by most to be the low budget end of the Marshall tube amp offerings.
There are many more expensive, and higher quality amps available.
I think you should stick with the current production amps, as older vintage amps can often require more maintenance and technical know-how.
There are many options available for classic and modern voiced amps, along with single channel and multiple channel amps.

Amps

Our world famous amplifiers. Including the 2245, 1959, JCM800 and many more additions to the series.

marshall.com

 

[El Gringo]

Need waaaay more info I'm afraid.
"Guitar buzzing noise and better sound...".. meaning? The distortion sound is buzzy with the Origin combo?
What do you mean by better? More high end? See the comments about changing out the speaker.
What kind of music? Does your guitar have fret buzz?
Home performamce you do not need a stronger amp.
Quality of sound is very subjective.
Speaker changes make a huge difference.
Do you have a bunchnof effects hooked up as well?

For speakers if it is a high gain amp I would go with Celestion Vintage 30's , for a traditional Marshall the Celestion Greenback speakers . This thread reminds of a thread on the other forum where someone was asking how to build a homemade 59 Sunburst Les Paul and he prefaces it by saying it would be for his own personal use . So then he is asking about the silkscreened Les Paul on the holly headstock and the stickers .Oh sure it's for personal use right up until he finds a sucker or a young kid starting out that wants to buy a "Gibson" Les Paul . The nerve of some people .

 

[Ttepper]

Keep the combo, sell the head and Radial and use the money to buy drugs.

 

[Cal Nevari]

The only way you can do this is by utilizing a tube amp head switcher. That Radial device in your photo is NOT that.
Here is a Radial device that does what you are trying to accomplish.

Radial Headbone VT Tube Amp Head Switcher Pedal

Tube Amp Head Switcher with 100-watt RMS Rating, Proprietary Electro-mechanical Circuit, 100% Discrete Class A Audio Signal Path, and Remote Control Port

www.sweetwater.com

You would still be left trying to figure out how to switch your guitar output to the two different amp head inputs.
There are devices that can do this but will cost you more than both amps.

The more important question is:
Why are you wanting to do this? What are you trying to accomplish?

Sadly, you may have already fried both amps.

Having just gotten the Radial Headband VT, I couldn't agree more that this is the solution that the OP is probably seeking. Precisely why he wants to connect the same amp to the speaker as opposed to two different amps I am not certain. Perhaps to have the settings on one amp different from the settings on the other?

Also, if I might respectfully add one correction: this unit allows you to plug your guitar into it and then has two guitar outputs that go into the guitar inputs on each amplifier. This is what I do with my O20H (set to maximum gain plexi tones) and O50H (set for clean tones) and it works just fine. You can even run different pedals in between the Headbone and each amp head; however, one should never use an echo or delay between the Headbone and an amp head or in the amp's effects loop, as this could cause problems to the amp when it is not being used (i.e., when one has used the Headbone to select the other amp head).

 

[Cal Nevari]

OMG thank you so much for clarifying all that this is what I needed, that's where I was confused and lost, I wanted to get better sound quality on higher frequency or just in general better sound, throught the head will surve this purpose, what's the point of the head then if the sound won't change as you mentioned above? The amp I have for some time, the head I can return if necessary, what would you suggest for better sound or else?

BTW, looks like everything works I didn't get a change to damage it yet, cause I didn't connect it properly I guess

Glad to hear you didn't damage the amps! You must now sacrifice a chicken to Jupiter!

If you would like to use two heads with one speaker, and there are applications for this, the Radial Headbone VT works great. I just got one and plan to create a new post to review it as soon as possible. Enjoy!

 

[Cal Nevari]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm in US, east cost. Will check it out anyway.

You should be able to pick up a good 2x12 used for a lot less than new on Craig's List or Reverb. Best to try it out before you buy it if you can. If money is no object and you don't have concerns about trying it out (and, after all, a speaker cabinet is very simple beast), then you can order one new or a floor model from Sweetwater. They are a great company and if you have any difficulties they will do what they need to do to make you happy. As others have mentioned, you CAN run both amps into one cab if you have a stereo cab running in the proper settings with all the ohms matching up just right. If you decide to do this, before switching on either amp, be sure to set it all up, post photos here, and other MFers will make sure it's set up properly before you turn it on to prevent possible damage.

 

[Cal Nevari]

That's where I got it wrong, thanks for shedding a light on it, I feel like a 5 year old, cause I got it all wrong, always used combo amps in the past.

Don't worry. It's an easy mistake to make. Based upon the replies you got, many others have done what you tried to do! You were fortunate, though, in that nothing awful happened.

 

[Cal Nevari]

Now I understand the difference between amp, head and cab to be honest I've played guitar for many years as a hobby, just never got into speakers that deep, always used amp and never got into it, what would you suggest for removing that guitar buzzing noise and get better sound, for a home performance, should I just get a stronger amp or get a combo cab for my head I already have, what top quality amp you would recommend and/or head and cab combo, as I mentioned before I want top quality, not budget option, price is irrelevant, need something really good. Thank you all for your answers and suggestions, you really helped me figure this out.

To what guitar buzzing noise are you referring? On either the O50 combo or head, there should be no buzzing noise unless it's being generated by a single-coil pickup.

 

[PelliX]

BTW, looks like everything works

Excellent, but beware;

I didn't get a change to damage it yet, cause I didn't connect it properly I guess

Note that a valve amplifier without a load (in simple terms "one or more speakers") *may* self-destruct in expensive ways, and you mentioned that it didn't work when you disconnected the internal speaker of the combo. Check your connections for sanity *before* switching on the amp. If you get no sound when you would expect sound - don't wait - turn it off. Take a step back and examine what might be wrong. Applying this basic method of operation, you may well save yourself a pretty penny in the end.