Celestion Creamback G12M-65 Bright

[littlewyan]

Before I installed the Creambacks I had Eminence GB12s which are supposed to be pretty close to Greenbacks except I find they have a big bottom end that can get quite boomy at times. The bottom end also stays quite clean and doesn't distort much like a Greenback will. Its not in a horrible way though and they are very close to the tone I want. Its just the bottom end on them.

 

[Woods]

Good luck on the speaker hunt; I'm not sure the speaker you want exists and you may have to compromise; I could be wrong.
'
In the grand scheme of things, I'm not so sure it's worth the expense of rolling 20 speakers to find THAT ONE, when no one in the audience is going to nerd out and be like "OMG that totally sounds like a 53' alnico purple red SE DX HL!!! LOLZ!"

Sometimes close enough is good enough. There are other things that affect tone as well. Like EQ controls.

If you just have to have a greenback, get a greenback and call it a day.

 

[MarshallDog]

Dam, shipping is $111 for the Scumbacks and duty/tax will be on top of that. Man I think those speakers would be perfect as well.

Not sure what Scums your looking at but if its the 75's (Greenback copies), dont waste your money. I have had a few and they are now all sold off on ebay at a big lose (no re-sale value). I replaced them with the G12M-65 Creamback, they sounded more woody and smoother to me plus they are celestions This was my experience, thats all I can say.

 

[littlewyan]

I think I'm going to look at the Celestion G12M Heritage. As I always play attenuated the power handling won't be an issue.

You're right Woods about the audience not caring about the tone but you should still care about your tone. If you don't like the sound of your rig then you're not going to be as inspired to play well. I know I've felt like crap before on stage when I've hated my tone.

What amp did you use with your Creambacks MarshallDog and what cab did you have them in?

 

[Woods]

^This is very true, just making sure your mind is in the right place; I hope you find a speaker that inspires you to play!!

 

[littlewyan]

Thanks man. I think its going to be between the Greenback RI and the Heritage G12M. They both have pros and cons when compared to an original Pre Rola Celestion. As I'll always attenuate my two large amps by at least 6dB the power handling won't be an issue. I'm just rather cautious now about buying new speakers! Might wait for one to pop up on Ebay.

As for speaker break in I've read that when Jim at Scumback has tested Celestion speakers hes always found they take a long time to break in. He had to put his Heritage G12M on a variac for 9 days to break it in and that was after 120Hours of gigging time already on them (he bought them 2nd hand). Maybe I'll give this Creambacks a bit longer but I have to say I'm quite tempted to just sell them and get a Heritage G12M.

 

[Georgiatec]

Dam, shipping is $111 for the Scumbacks and duty/tax will be on top of that. Man I think those speakers would be perfect as well.

Dude I'm fairly sure Lean Business are UK importers for WGS...check out their website. No need to import them yourself.
http://www.lean-business.co.uk/esho...4.html?zenid=8fdf214de76aae71d581c9be5c78ceb1

 

[littlewyan]

Yeah I saw that. They're reasonably priced too, but I'm wondering if I should just go for the real thing, i.e. Celestion G12M Heritage Speakers. I'm also considering a cab change but it turns out the 1936 is actually quite a large 2x12 cab already. Most other 2x12s are smaller.

 

[littlewyan]

Guys I've been thinking. I reckon these Creambacks are faulty. I tried them again tonight and they are no longer ear piercing but the distortion is really harsh. Also with regards to the brightness my Trainwreck Express has a bright switch which I usually have on but I tried both positions with these speakers, fiddled with the EQ to no end and couldn't get a usable tone.

I put my old speakers back in last night and it was a massive improvement. All 3 amps sounded great again and with my Express it didn't matter where I had the EQ set the amp still sounded great.

I should add that I did try one Creamback and one GB128 in the amp together and the tone improved from having two Creambacks but there was still a harshness to the tone. Maybe I should send these Creambacks back?

 

[Kutt]

You can certainly try returning them, but many dealers have rather stiff return rules on "raw frame" speakers. If you can't get anywhere with the dealer, maybe try working something out directly with Celestion.

Let us know how things unfold. I'm curious.

 

[Deep Purple fan]

Guys I've been thinking. I reckon these Creambacks are faulty. I tried them again tonight and they are no longer ear piercing but the distortion is really harsh. Also with regards to the brightness my Trainwreck Express has a bright switch which I usually have on but I tried both positions with these speakers, fiddled with the EQ to no end and couldn't get a usable tone.

I put my old speakers back in last night and it was a massive improvement. All 3 amps sounded great again and with my Express it didn't matter where I had the EQ set the amp still sounded great.

I should add that I did try one Creamback and one GB128 in the amp together and the tone improved from having two Creambacks but there was still a harshness to the tone. Maybe I should send these Creambacks back?

It's part of the break in process. I had the same thing happen to a cab with greenbacks and another cab with vintage 30s. Both started ear piercing and then got harsh. It took200 hours before the greenback cab was usable. I saw little improvement after a 100 hours. I bought the cab in April 2015 and is only recently getting good. The V 30 cab is still a mess.

The advice you got on breaking in Your speakers was right on target. It will take a while for the speakers to break in. Like you I thought my greenbacks were defective. I contacted celestion direct and they gave me a total BS answer saying speakers break in quickly. Be prepared for a long slog.

 

[GuitarMutant]

It's part of the break in process. I had the same thing happen to a cab with greenbacks and another cab with vintage 30s. Both started ear piercing and then got harsh. It took200 hours before the greenback cab was usable. I saw little improvement after a 100 hours. I bought the cab in April 2015 and is only recently getting good. The V 30 cab is still a mess.

The advice you got on breaking in Your speakers was right on target. It will take a while for the speakers to break in. Like you I thought my greenbacks were defective. I contacted celestion direct and they gave me a total BS answer saying speakers break in quickly. Be prepared for a long slog.

^THIS

Patience is your real friend here.
Throw a blanket over the cab for now and keep playing as loudly as you're able. Eventually, they break in and warm up. It's not just the speaker itself that needs breaking in - it's the doping as well. And aging the dope takes time. When I bought a new 1960a back in the 80s, I had to turn the cabinet 90 degrees from anyone in the band for the first 4-5 months of regular rehearsals and shows. After a while, I noticed I could turn it the right way. Back then, I just thought my ears were going or my taste was changing. Nowadays, I know what was really going on.

I'm one of those guys who ONLY buys older, heavily-used cabinets and speakers now.
(EDIT: I have to correct myself - I DO have a couple of brand-new Panama cabs, but I chose their AV30 speakers which have been pre-aged. But every other speaker I own is from the 80s.)

 

[dreyn77]

a new model is gonna be uncharted waters for you. with anything.
so don't expect anything from them.

I've just been demoing pickups from different fenders. some pickups I instantly like and some have taken me a year to like.
now I have a knowledge of 'what's different about pickups' and how the user needs to 'suspend' their own ideas about a product.
you've sorta got to accept that celestion has made a very different product which took them 30 years to do.
it's not a simple thing for them but they've put all their skill into that product.

somewhere in that sound is a sound which seems like the older product.
only a trained pro will pickit up straight away.

somebody out in the audience will notice the great new version sound of the creamback speaker. they'll be happy to hear that sound.
It might take you a while to get familiar with a vintage sound which hasn't been around for decades.
then learn what's 'new' in that sound with your product.
and then learn what's different about the 16ohm version and your 8ohm version.

you should be hearing 'the right' sound from them, by now.

can you hear a similar flavor tone to youtube demo vids? if you can then you're getting the right kinda sound from the speakers now.

 

[Blueslicks]

It's part of the break in process. I had the same thing happen to a cab with greenbacks and another cab with vintage 30s. Both started ear piercing and then got harsh. It took200 hours before the greenback cab was usable. I saw little improvement after a 100 hours. I bought the cab in April 2015 and is only recently getting good. The V 30 cab is still a mess.

The advice you got on breaking in Your speakers was right on target. It will take a while for the speakers to break in. Like you I thought my greenbacks were defective. I contacted celestion direct and they gave me a total BS answer saying speakers break in quickly. Be prepared for a long slog.

^THIS

Patience is your real friend here.
Throw a blanket over the cab for now and keep playing as loudly as you're able. Eventually, they break in and warm up. It's not just the speaker itself that needs breaking in - it's the doping as well. And aging the dope takes time. When I bought a new 1960a back in the 80s, I had to turn the cabinet 90 degrees from anyone in the band for the first 4-5 months of regular rehearsals and shows. After a while, I noticed I could turn it the right way. Back then, I just thought my ears were going or my taste was changing. Nowadays, I know what was really going on.

I'm one of those guys who ONLY buys older, heavily-used cabinets and speakers now.
(EDIT: I have to correct myself - I DO have a couple of brand-new Panama cabs, but I chose their AV30 speakers which have been pre-aged. But every other speaker I own is from the 80s.)

These guys have it right.

There is a reason people like 10 + year old speakers that have been played lots.

My advice, learn how to check speakers for faults and then purchase used ones. And also be aware that most used ones you purchase are coming from guys who probably want to off load them after only owning them a short while because they didn't like the sound. IE: they aren't even broken in yet despite being used.

300 + hours on my G12H30 Heritage. The icepick effect with a plexi was jaw shattering and near unbearable for ages. My bass player wanted to kill me. Took over a year with them playing a 1987x near dimed through a 1936 before I started to enjoy them fully. 4 years later they are the best speakers I've ever had. I've also got a pair of the G12M-65 Creambacks in a 2X12. Awesome speakers after about a year of loud as well.

Just lol at a "3 hour" break in period.

 

[littlewyan]

This is all true with regards to break in but they did lose the ear piercing high end a bit before I took them out and I still didn't like them. Thinking back, they did have quite a lot of low end and they sounded better when I removed the back panel. So perhaps they're just the wrong speaker for that cabinet. It is an oversized 2x12 and these speakers are designed to have more low end to make a 2x12 sound like a 4x12. I think I'll just sell them on as they're obviously not the speaker for me.

I must admit I like some clips with the G12H30 but only once its broken in. Brand new ones are very trebly.

I have to say though, not liking some pickups until after using them for a year isn't great. I know we say that we like gear from yesteryear as its well broken in but I doubt guitarists years ago bought new gear, didn't like it but thought they'd hold onto it as they might like it a year later.

I can hear a similarility between the clips and what I hear with the cab in front of me. Unfortunately I couldn't find a clip of these being played through by a Marshall JTM50 or a Trainwreck Express, they were all amplifiers that I'd never experienced before and couldn't find clips of those amps through other speakers. So it was a gamble really.

 

[Blueslicks]

but I doubt guitarists years ago bought new gear, didn't like it but thought they'd hold onto it as they might like it a year later.

No, they probably just kept it and played it till it started to sound great because there were about 99% less options back then as far as replacing with a different model.

 

[Deep Purple fan]

This is all true with regards to break in but they did lose the ear piercing high end a bit before I took them out and I still didn't like them. Thinking back, they did have quite a lot of low end and they sounded better when I removed the back panel. So perhaps they're just the wrong speaker for that cabinet. It is an oversized 2x12 and these speakers are designed to have more low end to make a 2x12 sound like a 4x12. I think I'll just sell them on as they're obviously not the speaker for me.

I must admit I like some clips with the G12H30 but only once its broken in. Brand new ones are very trebly.

I have to say though, not liking some pickups until after using them for a year isn't great. I know we say that we like gear from yesteryear as its well broken in but I doubt guitarists years ago bought new gear, didn't like it but thought they'd hold onto it as they might like it a year later.

I can hear a similarility between the clips and what I hear with the cab in front of me. Unfortunately I couldn't find a clip of these being played through by a Marshall JTM50 or a Trainwreck Express, they were all amplifiers that I'd never experienced before and couldn't find clips of those amps through other speakers. So it was a gamble really.

You say you're listening but you're not. YOUR SPEAKERS ARE NOT BROKEN IN AND IT WILL TAKE MONTHS TO GET THEM STARTED. We did not even get into the cab. If it's a wood cab, that also changes over time. Like a said, I bought a new Marshall 1960TV with Greenbacks in April 2015 from Musicians Friend. It sounded like a thin piece of crap. After 40 hours of hard playing it went from ear piercing thin crap to harsh thin sounding crap. I opened it up because I figured something must be wrong. Nothing, everything was right. I payed on it side, I turned it in all directions, I did everything. Nothing helped. I then ran backing tracks through it while I was at work. I said FK this cab and used my vintage cabs. After six months and at least 200 hours...minimum....of hard use I plugged in one day and there it was. The thin crap sound....gone. The harsh sound gone......usable to play a JVM through.....hell yes.

This 9 month old $1200 cab is now usable. Is it better than my old Marshall cabs....not yet. I fully expect that a year from now I will be raving about it on the forum. It most definitely is a pedigree that oozes with potential.

Last point, back in the 60s,70s and 80s there were not as many choices. Pedals were limited. People I knew didn't change speakers or tubes. None of that existed. I remember clearly I got my tone by playing loud. No tube screamer in front. No MXR EVH distortions pedals. No FX. Deep Purple on the Machine Head Tour replaced speakers every two weeks because they were blown because Blackmore ran his modified Marshall Major (200+ watts) rig dimed. That's how guys like Ritchie, Iommi, Page got their tone. I guarantee you if I plugged a JCM800 2203, with a Les Paul STD and dimed the amp the rig would not sound harsh and would rock. I did that to my 1960TV during the break in period and the rig needed a fully dimed Marshall to sound good.....otherwise it was a thin crappy sounding cab.

You may not believe it but the speaker you have is top notch.

 

[littlewyan]

Thought I'd report back here as I hate leaving a thread unfinished.

I went to Zilla Cabs in England and tried out one of his 2x12s with Creambacks in it. I tried both the Fatboy (normal 2x12) and Super Fatboy (Oversized 2x12, similar to my Marshall 1936), both had Creamback G12Ms in and I must say the Creambacks sounded much better in them than they did my Marshall Cab, but still not for me.

So I ordered a Super Fatboy with Salt n Pepper Grill Cloth and 2 x G12M Heritage Speakers. Tried it out on Sunday and finally I have found the cab for me. These speakers sounded amazing straight out the box and keep getting better and better. All of my amps sound so much better through them. My TW Express sounded messy before through my Eminence GB12s but now it holds itself together better and really snarls with a really nice definition when playing big open chords.

I know everyone believes the Creambacks are pretty much the same as the Heritage G12Ms but if you compared them side by side you'll realise they aren't. They are definitely BASED off of the Heritage speakers but are still a different animal. They react differently to playing and have a very different frequency response.

 

[Ufoscorpion]

Said it once said it a thousand times DONT BUY NEW SPEAKERS , buy nicely broken in ones . They are cheaper and sound loads better .

 

[jeffb]

I have two EVH G12MS, Whitch are the same.exact speaker as the Heritage G12m, and until recently had the g12m 65 creamback, and have tested them side by side. The creamback 65 is not that different...it doesn't break up.as quick obviously, and it has a bit more low end grunt. But when pushed hard the speakers sound similar. The evh/heritage has a bit more compression and is a.touch sweeter. I don't find it significantly warmer than creamback 65.

I think significant factor is that you were probably experiencing a speaker that needed breaking in and takes a fair amount of hours to do so and needs more push to fill out...vs. a speaker that takes far less of a pounding to fill out and break in/warm up. That IMO anyway, based on my experience with the speakers in question as apples apples as you can get.