DSL40C vs JCM800 4210! Help!

[Msharky67]

Ok so I am gassing to get another amp. I am looking at the DSL40c or a JCM800 4210. I have been thinking about the tone I really want and yes I can say it leans towards the JCM800 or plexi tone but I want an FX loop too. Both amps have a lot of features that is good. I think the DSL has better cleans than the 4210. The first issue is the price. The DSL is $699 or less and the 4210's are pushing $799-$1000. I can't justify paying that much for one of those. A 2205 would be great too but yeah the prices are ridiculous! I like the amps I have but its just so close. I really don't want to sell anything. Every time one of those amps come up for sale on Ebay for a decent price they both end up selling. I can never get a chance to have a fair bid. I think we all have been down this road.

 

[12barjunkie]

If I were you, I'd get a 4x12 cab... or two

 

[dreyn77]

In 10 years time what are you going to think about what gear you have??

We can already see you have gear that's marketed at an 'on special' price tag. these products you're intending to buy will also be put in the same region of catagory.
If you listen to a recording for a long time you learn to tell if the amp used is a small amp or a big amp.
The small amp has a reason for being made and so too the big amp. you still haven't got the big amp's sound yet. and you've covered the small amps territory.
The two amps you want are totally different product and you must use them differently to get the song performance out of them.

you can buy the combo 800 but it's only a similar type of sound it's not the full 100 watt version.

At the end of the day you only have a few hours with which you can play any guitar. Don't spend those few hours playing ordinary gear.

I've only met one person who's got a black room so nobody I know needs a black amp.

If you use your sd1 and the bugera, you don't need the DSL 2002 or the haze.
if you use the DSL2002 you don't need the bugera, or the haze, or the sd1.

I don't see you adding anything of value to your setup from either of these two amps you're thinking about. You'll forget them after enough time.
take your money and have dinner at your fav resturaunt. make a good memory.

 

[Msharky67]

If I were you, I'd get a 4x12 cab... or two

I would like one but our house isn't big enough for it. Our next house I will have my own studio. I definitely want to get one then.

 

[12barjunkie]

I've only met one person who's got a black room so nobody I know needs a black amp.

 

[Msharky67]

In 10 years time what are you going to think about what gear you have??

We can already see you have gear that's marketed at an 'on special' price tag. these products you're intending to buy will also be put in the same region of catagory.
If you listen to a recording for a long time you learn to tell if the amp used is a small amp or a big amp.
The small amp has a reason for being made and so too the big amp. you still haven't got the big amp's sound yet. and you've covered the small amps territory.
The two amps you want are totally different product and you must use them differently to get the song performance out of them.

you can buy the combo 800 but it's only a similar type of sound it's not the full 100 watt version.

At the end of the day you only have a few hours with which you can play any guitar. Don't spend those few hours playing ordinary gear.

I've only met one person who's got a black room so nobody I know needs a black amp.

If you use your sd1 and the bugera, you don't need the DSL 2002 or the haze.
if you use the DSL2002 you don't need the bugera, or the haze, or the sd1.

I don't see you adding anything of value to your setup from either of these two amps you're thinking about. You'll forget them after enough time.
take your money and have dinner at your fav resturaunt. make a good memory.

The only model I would sell is the Haze 40 but I do feel it has a poor mans JMP type tone from it and it has a lot of features on it. I am still bent on the speaker for it though. Still can't pin point what it's missing. My bugera is modded with a Marshall style transformer and has a PPIMV. I did switch the speakers out of that 2x12 cab with G12T75's and its much better. I also have a DSL1h too. That is its own beast in itself. I am borrowing a friends TS9 which I don't have yet. Its one of those pedals that you'll get when you get around to it. I like it too even if its slightly different than the SD-1.

 

[ricksteruk]

The 4210 (2205) has some great tones in it - which really sound best when plugged into an external speaker.. I didn't like the open back combo speaker at all - so weedy. I sold my 4210 once I'd tried my JMD, though I may buy a 2205 head in the future.

You are right that the 4210 clean is not "clean".. if you are a roll back the guitar volume kind of guy it might work out for you though.

One thing to be aware of is that the 4210 FX loop is one of the first Marshall ever put in their amps and they kind of messed it up. It doesn't work properly with all FX units due to impedances. It's also post master volume (and reverb) so to get a good signal into your FX units you need to run the amp MV at pretty much full volume, then use a either a volume pedal or a pedal with an overall output volume last in your FX loop as your actual Master.

 

[Msharky67]

The 4210 (2205) has some great tones in it - which really sound best when plugged into an external speaker.. I didn't like the open back combo speaker at all - so weedy. I sold my 4210 once I'd tried my JMD, though I may buy a 2205 head in the future.

You are right that the 4210 clean is not "clean".. if you are a roll back the guitar volume kind of guy it might work out for you though.

One thing to be aware of is that the 4210 FX loop is one of the first Marshall ever put in their amps and they kind of messed it up. It doesn't work properly with all FX units due to impedances. It's also post master volume (and reverb) so to get a good signal into your FX units you need to run the amp MV at pretty much full volume, then use a either a volume pedal or a pedal with an overall output volume last in your FX loop as your actual Master.

Thanks! I am kind of leaning towards the DSL40c now. I really wanted the 4210 but the prices today are ridiculous and the DSL40 has more features but I know it has enough gain without having to boost it. Plus the 1/2 power switch and full EQ.

 

[ricksteruk]

No problem!

I've not tried the DSL40C or the DSL50, but I do wonder if they are very different or perhaps quite similar? The low power mode maybe but what else is different? If you've got the DSL1h too have you got low power covered anyway?

Do you just want a combo for ease of transport / single box solution?

EDIT - Maybe a Class 5 or a SL5 combo might be a bit more different and worth exploring?

 

[Msharky67]

Yes I have a DSL1h too. I don't play out so the portability isn't an issue. I guess I just want the classic Marshall tone but versatile too. I don't want to spend a fortune either. I have looked at the class 5 but is very simple and I would need an FX loop. If they only put an FX loop on the JCM1h than it would have been perfect! How is the JMD? I have heard mixed reviews but some good ones too. I like the idea but how well does sound. Does it have the tube feel or sterile like a solid state?

 

[ricksteruk]

To me the JMD feels great! I enjoy playing it much more than I did my 4210. It is so versatile. It does clean very very well and has so many flavours of Marshall dirt! I can get a nice middly tone similar to my 4210 boost channel for the 80s rock stuff but also more modern drive like the JVM. It's even got "detuned" mode if you fancy a bit of metal chugga chugga. I think it's ideal for a gigging amp where you need many sounds on tap.

As for your amp gas.. hmmm.. If I was gonna have a rig set up at home permanently I'd set up a cool dry / wet or wet / dry / wet rig with maybe a nice JCM 800 style in the centre for dry and some other amps (maybe DSL) on the wet amps. That would sound awesome

 

[vinceB]

I was faced with the exact same choice. I went with the 4210. I used to have a 2205 so I knew what I would get sound wise. The 4210 is a beast and built like a tank. The later models are way better and the effects loop in my 89 works great with my pedal board. It's kind of a one trick pony but it does that trick pretty well. I have heard an eq in the loop and a lower gain tube in V2 makes the normal channel cleaner but I don't feel that you should NEED pedals to sound good. As a wise EVH once said pedals are like seasoning, you want to taste the steak not the seasoning.

 

[Msharky67]

I was faced with the exact same choice. I went with the 4210. I used to have a 2205 so I knew what I would get sound wise. The 4210 is a beast and built like a tank. The later models are way better and the effects loop in my 89 works great with my pedal board. It's kind of a one trick pony but it does that trick pretty well. I have heard an eq in the loop and a lower gain tube in V2 makes the normal channel cleaner but I don't feel that you should NEED pedals to sound good. As a wise EVH once said pedals are like seasoning, you want to taste the steak not the seasoning.

The price is what's getting me. I can buy a new DSL40 for what they are asking for a 4210. I am planning on saving up and decide later.

 

[Joshabr1]

I have owned both. For rock and roll tone it's hands down not even a race for the 800. If u have to have effects I don't know about that as I don't own any. But for just plain rock and roll the 800 is by far the better amplifier.

 

[vinceB]

I have been getting a lot of grief for not liking the DSL and to be fair I haven't played a lot of 50s or 100s. I did however test drive three DSL 40Cs and they all sounded like a Crate or a Peavey. Some will say I'm doing it wrong I don't have it set up right etc. what ever. Out of the box the 4210 hands down will mop the floor with a DSL40C. If you do a few tweaks it only gets better and you'll have a solid British made amp. The only downside is it's a rock/metal amp you aren't going to play jazz or R&B through the 4210. It was designed to be the go to amp for the butt rock 80s and it works well but you can also get some gnarly thrash tones and late seventies classic rock sounds as well if you tweak a little.

 

[Micky]

I have been getting a lot of grief for not liking the DSL and to be fair I haven't played a lot of 50s or 100s. I did however test drive three DSL 40Cs and they all sounded like a Crate or a Peavey. Some will say I'm doing it wrong I don't have it set up right etc. what ever. Out of the box the 4210 hands down will mop the floor with a DSL40C. If you do a few tweaks it only gets better and you'll have a solid British made amp. The only downside is it's a rock/metal amp you aren't going to play jazz or R&B through the 4210. It was designed to be the go to amp for the butt rock 80s and it works well but you can also get some gnarly thrash tones and late seventies classic rock sounds as well if you tweak a little.

I think right out of the box your are correct.
The DSL40c is lacking a bit of bass to even out how bright this amp is.
This is why the 100W head is so popular, team it up with a nice cab and it is really kinda nice.

Crate or Peavey is kinda harsh though...