El34 and 6550 comparison-greenbacks and g12-65's comparison

[rockstah]

i thought you guys maybe interested in listening to a 6550 to el34 clip comparison.
two different amps but basically the same circuit. both are 50w amps.

6550's (greenbacks)
SoundClick artist: rockstah plexi tweaks and mods - page with MP3 music downloads


EL34'S (greenbacks)
SoundClick artist: rockstah plexi tweaks and mods - page with MP3 music downloads


Here is the same amp used in the el34 clip but now through g12 - 65's
SoundClick artist: rockstah plexi tweaks and mods - page with MP3 music downloads

it is night and day for me between speakers but for the reputation 6550's get, i think they are an interesting tube that are not to be over looked in ones quest for tone.

Mark

 

[wreckingball]

Hey Mark, didn't know you were a member here too, good to see ya man.

Thanks for the clips too, agreed on the speakers... night and day for sure, but no matter how much people rave about the 65's, I still prefer the greenies.

The tubes? Can't here much of a difference with all of the verb, but to my ears, the el's just have more complex harmonic overtones, I like that.

cheers
-wreck

 

[rockstah]

Hey Mark, didn't know you were a member here too, good to see ya man.

Thanks for the clips too, agreed on the speakers... night and day for sure, but no matter how much people rave about the 65's, I still prefer the greenies.

The tubes? Can't here much of a difference with all of the verb, but to my ears, the el's just have more complex harmonic overtones, I like that.

cheers
-wreck

hey man i agree BUT to me at the same time the 6550, for better or for worse, have a wider freq response listening to the clips. i believe i still prefer el34's but the 6550 are not bad at all.

and yes, the g12-65 speakers blow major junks as far as im concerned.

now where do i know you from?
Mark

 

[wreckingball]

now where do i know you from?

MLP, and before I get my facts wrong and mis-quote you, what guitar and pickups were used on these clips? Does that ring a bell?

 

[sccloser]

I'm also an el34 guy, but those 6550's sounded really good. How did they feel? I have not played 6500's in quite some time, but I remember them not having the same feel as the el34's..I guess it may have been just more headroom.

Yes, when you directly compare the speakers, gb's definitely sounded better than the 65's.

Awesome playing in the clips!

 

[rockstah]

MLP, and before I get my facts wrong and mis-quote you, what guitar and pickups were used on these clips? Does that ring a bell?

i get asked that question a lot.

 

[rockstah]

I'm also an el34 guy, but those 6550's sounded really good. How did they feel? I have not played 6500's in quite some time, but I remember them not having the same feel as the el34's..I guess it may have been just more headroom.

Yes, when you directly compare the speakers, gb's definitely sounded better than the 65's.

Awesome playing in the clips!

they feel just about the same, maybe a tad stiffer.

 

[alvagoldbook]

Hard to make a judgment listening on laptop speakers and with all that verb.

I've not used 6550's in guitar amps before, but they sound surprisingly good. Much brighter and less bottom end than the other two samples. Would have been interesting to hear the same amp with 6L6's.

The GT-65 speakers are a real surprise too. They sound more complex than the greenbacks. I'd be interested to know what mic you put on these cabs.

 

[plexilespaul]

The GT-65 speakers are a real surprise too. They sound more complex than the greenbacks

agreed those gt-65 really had an immense crunch and brought out smooth creamy mid tone... perfect for that amp.

 

[Jason77]

Those 65s sound great! The highs sound smooth and they seem slightly scooped in the just the right spot.

 

[longfxukxnhair]

I run the 65's and the greenbacks with my Engl. AWESOME!

 

[MartyStrat54]

Do you recall what the bias was on the 6550's versus the EL34's?

That was probably the best sounding use of 6550's that I have heard.

It sounds like the 6550's were biased on the hot side.

 

[rockstah]

bias on both sets was 70% MPD. for those that are saying the g1265's sound good, you're sure your listening to the third clip? i think they sound, for a lack of a better word, horrible but that's only my opinion i guess.

 

[demonufo]

I wouldn't expect you Halen-esque power tube distortion junkies to like the 6550's that much!

Although I do prefer EL34's myself (hard not to when you have a reasonable stash of XF2's, early Tesla's and early RFT's amongst others at hand), for master mk II amps and a slightly less power tube distortion obsessed frame of mind, my GE 6550's sound absolutely killer, and definitely have their place. Especially when biased a little bit closer to what they should be (as opposed to biasing for EL34 dissipation - not too much though as the PT will just sag and crap out)

I also don't see the point in comparison clips and then soaking them in verb and production.


Also I'm curious as to how the amp was mic'd. I only ask because G12M-65's are notoriously difficult to close mic. and take a lot of setting up. In the case of a speaker comparison, although it wouldn't sound great, a room mic. or a more distant mic. would be more relevant, as it relies far too much on placement to get the best out of a close mic., and is very difficult to attempt a fair comparison, as such.

I wouldn't say the 6550 clip sounded horrible either. Less warmth, for sure. But not horrible. Halen-esque - no, but certainly not a bad tone.


And yes Mark, the G12M-65's did sound quite nasty in that third clip. Are we talking the open backed 4104 cabinet here? Or your 1960? I know they don't sound particularly great open, but still better than most modern Celestions. I really am surprised there was that radical a difference between the two, because my 65's sound absolutely kickass. Better than my H30's in fact.

 

[rockstah]

I wouldn't expect you Halen-esque power tube distortion junkies to like the 6550's that much!

Although I do prefer EL34's myself (hard not to when you have a reasonable stash of XF2's, early Tesla's and early RFT's amongst others at hand), for master mk II amps and a slightly less power tube distortion obsessed frame of mind, my GE 6550's sound absolutely killer, and definitely have their place. Especially when biased a little bit closer to what they should be (as opposed to biasing for EL34 dissipation - not too much though as the PT will just sag and crap out)

I also don't see the point in comparison clips and then soaking them in verb and production.


Also I'm curious as to how the amp was mic'd. I only ask because G12M-65's are notoriously difficult to close mic. and take a lot of setting up. In the case of a speaker comparison, although it wouldn't sound great, a room mic. or a more distant mic. would be more relevant, as it relies far too much on placement to get the best out of a close mic., and is very difficult to attempt a fair comparison, as such.

I wouldn't say the 6550 clip sounded horrible either. Less warmth, for sure. But not horrible. Halen-esque - no, but certainly not a bad tone.


And yes Mark, the G12M-65's did sound quite nasty in that third clip. Are we talking the open backed 4104 cabinet here? Or your 1960? I know they don't sound particularly great open, but still better than most modern Celestions. I really am surprised there was that radical a difference between the two, because my 65's sound absolutely kickass. Better than my H30's in fact.

Yes, you can split hairs but the comparison is dead nuts as far as i'm concerned.

On the point of reverb they both had reverb!?!

On the point of how they are mic'd they both are mic'd to get the sound i get in the room. its how I record any clip, to capture the sound i hear in the room.

The 6550's were bias'd as they should be. Granted, you are thinking about a 6550 being a 35w tube and a el34 being a 25w tube but the pt AND the OT would have to be changed to handle the 6550's true wattage something that Marshall never did using the same pt and ot for both tubes.

Further more, 6550's in a Marshall amp SHOULD be treated like el34's unless you want to risk OT and or PT failure.

About the open back versus closed back it really makes no difference in this situation with the volume being used. the mic is only capturing the speaker sound.

For me, in my opinion, and what i look for as far as tone goes, voice goes, the g12-65's sound horrible but tone is in the hears of the beholder.

I appreciate the post and your opinion!

Mark

 

[plexilespaul]

the g12-65's sound horrible

you don't really mean that...

 

[alvagoldbook]

bias on both sets was 70% MPD. for those that are saying the g1265's sound good, you're sure your listening to the third clip? i think they sound, for a lack of a better word, horrible but that's only my opinion i guess.

I might feel differently within the context of a full band, and it really is hard to make judgements on laptop speakers and all that verb, but I thought they sounded very good. A big surprise was that the output tubes seemed to have a more dramatic overall effect on tone than speaker choice.

The hands down winner was the el-34's & greenbacks though.

Does anyone know why 6550's were reserved so much for ampegs? I've never looked into it, but it seems strange that I've never heard of 6550's being used in a guitar amp before, nor have I heard of a el34 or a 6l6 being used in an Ampeg SVT. Anyone know what tubes the Marshall VBA 400 uses?

 

[dread1]

Yes, you can split hairs but the comparison is dead nuts as far as i'm concerned.

On the point of reverb they both had reverb!?!

On the point of how they are mic'd they both are mic'd to get the sound i get in the room. its how I record any clip, to capture the sound i hear in the room.

The 6550's were bias'd as they should be. Granted, you are thinking about a 6550 being a 35w tube and a el34 being a 25w tube but the pt AND the OT would have to be changed to handle the 6550's true wattage something that Marshall never did using the same pt and ot for both tubes.

Further more, 6550's in a Marshall amp SHOULD be treated like el34's unless you want to risk OT and or PT failure.

About the open back versus closed back it really makes no difference in this situation with the volume being used. the mic is only capturing the speaker sound.

For me, in my opinion, and what i look for as far as tone goes, voice goes, the g12-65's sound horrible but tone is in the hears of the beholder.

I appreciate the post and your opinion!

Mark

Are you using the same formula as the the el34's to bias the 6550's?
BTW, I thought the 6550's ripped ! Great playing too!

 

[rockstah]

you don't really mean that...

you misquoted me!
it should have read: "For me, in my opinion, and what i look for as far as tone goes, voice goes, the g12-65's sound horrible but tone is in the hears of the beholder."

About the only thing i could add to make it clearer is that they sound horrible in this application/context.

so to answer your question, yes i do mean that.

Mark

 

[rockstah]

I might feel differently within the context of a full band, and it really is hard to make judgements on laptop speakers and all that verb, but I thought they sounded very good. A big surprise was that the output tubes seemed to have a more dramatic overall effect on tone than speaker choice.

The hands down winner was the el-34's & greenbacks though.

Does anyone know why 6550's were reserved so much for ampegs? I've never looked into it, but it seems strange that I've never heard of 6550's being used in a guitar amp before, nor have I heard of a el34 or a 6l6 being used in an Ampeg SVT. Anyone know what tubes the Marshall VBA 400 uses?

hmmm i heard the speaker make more of a difference. Are you sure you the clips straight and what you are listening to correct?