Genuine José modded plexi guts from Japan

[SonVolt]

A lifetime of practice to get where he was in his early 20s.... let that sink in a bit.

 

[svinyard]

It's a bit like talking to a flat earther. They will believe what they want.

The guys who actually worked in the amp said it is a stock circuit. Even on the video posted above, Dave said it had been rewired and components were replaced but it was basically the stock lead circuit. When he was finished with the restoration, Ed said it was the best the amp sounded in 20 years..

Not to mention Pete Thorn and many others getting really close to EVHs tone with stock amps.

But none of this will change his belief. He will argue the point forever and continue to find confirmation bias.

The EVH tone is not that hard to get, especially these days.

Playing like him is an entire different thing.

But the tone itself is a Marshall. Many famous players tried Eddie's rig and it sounded just like them through a Marshall, which was disappointing to them as they were expecting to sound like Ed. It doesn't work that way.

The special sauce of Ed's tone was Ed. To achieve that without being him takes a lifetime of practice and even then, you're not guaranteed to ever get there. You can learn the songs but getting the attack, swing etc... very difficult if it's not innate to you..

That's a hard reality to face so people think "oh its the gear" which is something that can be bought. But it's not, just like getting Michael Jordan's shoes won't make you play ball like Jordan.

I think the best lesson to learn from Ed would be to just be yourself, which is exactly what Ed did his entire life.

I mean...sort of.

It's not that hard to play some of Eddies basic (but popular) riffs...and at that point a fair bit of it is the hardware. Then it either sounds like it or doesn't. There's not a lot of magic playing going on for that main beginning riff to Running with the Devil right? "slide...Dun dunnnn....chucka, dunna dun dun" Does the amp make that tone or not...that's a different story. Of course all of the crazy stuff Eddie did is not reproduceable but I'd wager its a fair bit of his mellower stuff that draws people to his tone. Those fat sustaining, simple chords and stuff...that's where you REALLY hear that fat brown sound or the weird treble tones when he's holding those notes. That's where people are hunting the tone I think.

 

[guitarbilly74]

I mean...sort of.

It's not that hard to play some of Eddies basic (but popular) riffs...and at that point and fair bit of it is the hardware. Then it either sounds like it or doesn't. There's not a lot of magic playing going on for that main beginning riff to Running with the Devil right? "slide...Dun dunnnn....chucka, dunna dun dun" Does the amp make that tone or not...that's a different story. Of course all of the crazy stuff Eddie did is not reproduceable but I'd wager its a fair bit of his mellower stuff that draws people to his tone. Those fat sustaining, simple chords and stuff...that's where you REALLY hear that fat brown sound or the weird treble tones when he's holding those notes. That's where people are hunting the tone I think.

A healthy Super Lead will make that tone. I don't think I've ever heard one that wouldn't unless the amp had an issue. But even with simple riffs, Ed has his attack etc which makes his sound unique. But YMMV.

Nothing wrong with chasing tone btw. Whatever makes someone happy is the right thing for them to do. Guitar is a hobby and a passion to most, so the journey can be whatever you want it to be.

But Ed wasn't who he was because he had a special amp. He was the special part of the equation himself.

 

[pat_rocks]

It's a bit like talking to a flat earther. They will believe what they want.

The guys who actually worked in the amp said it is a stock circuit. Even on the video posted above, Dave said it had been rewired and components were replaced but it was basically the stock lead circuit. When he was finished with the restoration, Ed said it was the best the amp sounded in 20 years..

Not to mention Pete Thorn and many others getting really close to EVHs tone with stock amps.

But none of this will change his belief. He will argue the point forever and continue to find confirmation bias.

The EVH tone is not that hard to get, especially these days.

Playing like him is an entire different thing.

But the tone itself is a Marshall. Many famous players tried Eddie's rig and it sounded just like them through a Marshall, which was disappointing to them as they were expecting to sound like Ed. It doesn't work that way.

The special sauce of Ed's tone was Ed. To achieve that without being him takes a lifetime of practice and even then, you're not guaranteed to ever get there. You can learn the songs but getting the attack, swing etc... very difficult if it's not innate to you..

That's a hard reality to face so people think "oh its the gear" which is something that can be bought. But it's not, just like getting Michael Jordan's shoes won't make you play ball like Jordan.

I think the best lesson to learn from Ed would be to just be yourself, which is exactly what Ed did his entire life.

Man Dave said many incoherent things just look at this viodeo i put it at the righ moment just for you :

" there was a bunch of stuff that had been done to this over the years so I don't know what state I wasn't exactly sure what state it originally was in but there had been a bunch of stuff that had been done over the years and then like half the amp was rewired with Teflon wire and and half the components were not original "

look for it a min 33:00




HALF OF THE COMPONENTS WERE NOT ORIGINAL by Dave Friedman. NOT ORIGINAL is NOT STOCK.

See when he did a video with Pete thorn he said it was stock but here says it was not. Why ? he knew that the video with pete thorn would be seen by many. In the live youtube shows he knows it's only for tone geeks who know a little bit more about amps...

Moreover in the picture which Dave released online of eddies amp you can see it's clearly not stock...

If you don't know what Marshall circuits look like it's not my issue because this time you are the flat earther not me...



Top is Eddies bottom is a stock 12000 series.... Marshall never used cherry drops and blue wimas as coupling caps... You'd have to be a flat earther of guitar amps to believe in this.

GO on the metroforums if you want to know if it was stock or not... There is a reason why Mark Cameron amplification searched for josé amps all of his life... The same company which now Dave Friedman "co-owns"... I believe there is a reason why Dave is going into every josé and servicing them... It gaves him new ideas for new amps but he also could find something which leads him to the original VH1 amp.

 

[guitarbilly74]

. NOT ORIGINAL is NOT STOCK.

You're wrong about that. If you replace a component with one of the same type and value, the component is not original but the circuit is still the same stock circuit.

Ed's amps were rode hard, toured with etc... obviously components had to be replaced just from regular maintenance.

I do 1/1000 of the gigging Ed did and from time to time my amps need some caps etc to be replaced. It doesn't change the tone of the amp as long as it's the same component and not a mod.

Dave made very clear that the amp was a regular specd super lead of the era. And he restored with guts from another stock plexi.

But you believe whatever you want.

 

[pat_rocks]

A healthy Super Lead will make that tone. I don't think I've ever heard one that wouldn't unless the amp had an issue. But even with simple riffs, Ed has his attack etc which makes his sound unique. But YMMV.

Nothing wrong with chasing tone btw. Whatever makes someone happy is the right thing for them to do. Guitar is a hobby and a passion to most, so the journey can be whatever you want it to be.

But Ed wasn't who he was because he had a special amp. He was the special part of the equation himself.

Hey mister Flat earther there are 3 elements which are not stock in this picture can you find them ?

1. the pot on the back.
2. The choke which is not original on the 12000 series.
3. The output transformer which is way bigger than an original one.

even from the exterior it is not stock at all... But when you don't know about marshall circuits and pieces and you only know about guitar playing it's difficult to know. No ?

 

[pat_rocks]

You're wrong about that. If you replace a component with one of the same type and value, the component is not original but the circuit is still the same stock circuit.

Ed's amps were rode hard, toured with etc... obviously components had to be replaced just from regular maintenance.

I do 1/1000 of the gigging Ed did and from time to time my amps need some caps etc to be replaced. It doesn't change the tone of the amp as long as it's the same component and not a mod.

Dave made very clear that the amp was a regular specd super lead of the era. And he restored with guts from another stock plexi.

But you believe whatever you want.

It's very unprobable that you'd have to replace mustard caps in a plexi except a big accident with the amp happened even if eddie blew the transformers its almost impossible to fry non polarized capacitors at the end of the board. You know why ? those coupling capacitors which were changed only recieve 150 volts to 200v and they are rated for 400v and more... So yeah forget about it. Even if someone spilled coke on those caps after they dried out they would still work... Most of the legendary guitarist amp still have their original mustard capacitors even if they played their amps like crazy...

Having cherry drops in there it's obvious that it has been josé work which put the amp back to stock. Isn't it strange that when josé is diagnosed with cancer in 1979 after the release of VH2 the back knob disappears and is replaced by a screw and eddies tone became way less aggressive and impressive ? Vh1 and VH2 are in their own cathegory. Then you have fair warning and women and children first which sound almost the same.

 

[cccc]

Fair Warning and WACF sound nothing alike .

This topic has been discussed for over 40 years , there will NEVER be a consensus about it .

 

[guitarbilly74]

I've heard your clips, and I rest my case.

View attachment 151803

I've seen this picture a million times. There is a lot stuff in it but we don't know what it is, if it had any effect on tone, if it was even connected (could be something Ed tried and removed but left the hardware there to fuck with people ,he used to do that a lot back then). So we just don't know. That's all pure speculation.

Here's what we DO know:

- Dave put the amp back to stock spec and Ed played it and said.. "yep that's it" And he even ordered a duplicate of it, which is the most ringing endorsement he could give. And he Kept Dave as he go-to rig guy from that point forward.

So Dave is incoherent, him and Ed are wrong but YOU are right and the clips you made to prove it were so bad you ended up removing them?


Okay

 

[Mosher Zone]

Man Dave said many incoherent things just look at this viodeo i put it at the righ moment just for you :

" there was a bunch of stuff that had been done to this over the years so I don't know what state I wasn't exactly sure what state it originally was in but there had been a bunch of stuff that had been done over the years and then like half the amp was rewired with Teflon wire and and half the components were not original "

look for it a min 33:00




HALF OF THE COMPONENTS WERE NOT ORIGINAL by Dave Friedman. NOT ORIGINAL is NOT STOCK.

See when he did a video with Pete thorn he said it was stock but here says it was not. Why ? he knew that the video with pete thorn would be seen by many. In the live youtube shows he knows it's only for tone geeks who know a little bit more about amps...

Moreover in the picture which Dave released online of eddies amp you can see it's clearly not stock...

If you don't know what Marshall circuits look like it's not my issue because this time you are the flat earther not me...

View attachment 151802

Top is Eddies bottom is a stock 12000 series.... Marshall never used cherry drops and blue wimas as coupling caps... You'd have to be a flat earther of guitar amps to believe in this.

GO on the metroforums if you want to know if it was stock or not... There is a reason why Mark Cameron amplification searched for josé amps all of his life... The same company which now Dave Friedman "co-owns"... I believe there is a reason why Dave is going into every josé and servicing them... It gaves him new ideas for new amps but he also could find something which leads him to the original VH1 amp.

You are taking a lot of stuff Dave said & leaving stuff out. I watch Tone-Talk & it's been stated many times that the amp was stock as in no mods. ED also said that Jose did some work & ED repaid the favour by push the mods even though they weren't done on his amp..... it worked shall we say.

 

[pittbull]

The first amp-tech that put Edwards amp back to stock value before Dave was Peter Van wheeler of Holland he even replated the f%#king amp classis and rewirded the amp

 

[pat_rocks]

You are taking a lot of stuff Dave said & leaving stuff out. I watch Tone-Talk & it's been stated many times that the amp was stock as in no mods. ED also said that Jose did some work & ED repaid the favour by push the mods even though they weren't done on his amp..... it worked shall we say.

Im not saying the amp was completely modded. However just look at the pictures of the guts. If it was really stock why remove the mustard caps then ? What I believe Dave wanted to say is that the Marshall had stock values but non stock components and that’s not the same thing. The back pot in vh2 picture a pot is a mod want it or not. Even if it is a master it could have clipping diodes on it. I’m not saying everything was modded but you could add some things over a stock plexi and removing them without leaving a lot of hints it was there. See if there was a varia volt in eddies amp it could be interesting to know how it worked. You could have a lot of the plexi staying stock but then adding a pot on the back with a small circuit.

 

[guitarbilly74]

There are a number of amps in the market that nail that tone. The Suhr 68L, the Metro clones, the 1959hw... heck even Ceriatone and they're all stock plexi circuits.
If you can't get the VH tone with these amps, it's not the amps.

 

[SonVolt]

This guy says "Dave" a lot. Maybe it is actually Dave Friedman posting under a fake name.

 

[mAx___]

Jim Gaustad nails the tone and the playing, and he shows the guts of his amps on his channel. That's all it needs to be as far as I'm concerned. Pete Thorn made a deep dive video too. You can argue forever but the proof is in the pie and those two guys know exactly how to get the EVH sound.

 

[pat_rocks]

Guys i'm not here only about nailing van halen's tone come on...

Some days ago many of you were complaining i didn't share infos.

i'm litteraly giving you freely the guts pictures of a josé which apparently sounds very good for you to be able to copy or to do your own research and many are still complaining x). Those pics are really difficult to find.

Let's say we forget about if the amp was stock or not but mainly focus on this back pot thing and on the josé itself. This backpot thing seems very interesting. Because if you are able to play with voltages in a some kind of way only in V1 it could be very interesting.

 

[pat_rocks]

Jim Gaustad nails the tone and the playing, and he shows the guts of his amps on his channel. That's all it needs to be as far as I'm concerned. Pete Thorn made a deep dive video too. You can argue forever but the proof is in the pie and those two guys know exactly how to get the EVH sound.

Jim's tone is very close however it still lacks this crushing sound or spongy sound you can hear each time eddie picks a string. And that's what makes this tone incredible. Id say he is 70-80% and for sure he nails everything from after VH2. However it lacks this ingredient for the early period. If there was slaving involved then you could not reproduce this tone without slaving into the right amps.

This is Van Halen in 1976 Listen to little dreamer and tell me you can get this sound without modding your plexi haha.... It was mixed by another studio so it's not a mixing thing. Even the sunset sound unmixed tracks have a crazy tone.



the mixing was made by another sutdio you can really see that in little dreamer eddie was already beginning to use the setup he will use later for this very hot tone. There is no way you'd get a tone this hot and spongy with a stock plexi. George Lynch and many other guitarists from LA went insane when hearing his tone in small clubs before the first album. If George Lynch asked himself how to get this tone it was probably because you couldn't get this tone with a stock plexi.

"They were still doing covers at the time at Rainbow, Montrose's and their original stuff was as good or better than their cover stuff, which was pretty exceptional. After their show, I went back to our band room and played my guitar until the sun came up. I thought, Man! How can I get that tone? [Yes! Tone, not speed!]"

George Lynch is not the average guitar player guys. If he says the tone was out of this world then it really was even without mixing... The guy probably knew better how to push a plexi to its limits than us. If he said this then he also thought it was impossible to do with a stock plexi. ANd if you know some about George Lynch you would know that he chased modded plexis a lot durring his lifetime. He even used the S.I.R 36 used for AFD haha.

moding a plexi doesn't always involve stripping all the original components it can also be adding new ones over the old ones.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

but mainly focus on this back pot thing

Could be unrelated but in Rik Emmett's memoirs (formerly Triumph) he said he recorded the iconic song Rock n Roll Machine (1977) with, as he called it, a souped up Marshall. It didn't have a preamp knob but there was a knob on the back to control voltage to the power supply.
Obviously this is not the basic voltage switch, Rik is an intelligent well spoken man, he is well aware of the difference. To me this sounds like a Variac of some variety built in to the amp.
Interesting, and in 1977 too.
Must have been a few odd amps with interesting knobs from mods back then.

 

[pat_rocks]

Here is the live club version of van halen.

so it wasn't recorded with mic studios next to the cones and no mixing was done.

the tone is even fatter, I even believe eddie had to roll the fatness of his tone down for the records... :

 

[Jethro Rocker]

Here is the live club version of van halen.

so it wasn't recorded with mic studios next to the cones and no mixing was done.

the tone is even fatter, I even believe eddie had to roll the fatness of his tone down for the records... :

That's the thing. Trying to reproduce recorded tones from a studio in a living room is an exercise in futility. Live tones are how Eddie sounded and even those are recordings of said live tone.