How come modern metal players don't like Marshall amps?

[S.A.T.O.]

If we're talking about professional metal players one reason you might not see a lot of Marshall's on stage is there's not an abundance of money in metal as there was in the 80's/90's. Marshall still doesn't give out free rides for amps so maybe these players go where they can get free gear?

 

[diesect20022000]

If we're talking about professional metal players one reason you might not see a lot of Marshall's on stage is there's not an abundance of money in metal as there was in the 80's/90's. Marshall still doesn't give out free rides for amps so maybe these players go where they can get free gear?

bingo
this is PART of it. marshalls aren't cheap and many of us reserve our TONE for the studio and use beaters live. in fact EVERY professional metal musician i know out here does this. we all tend to use 5150's, or even solid state for local clubs, 5150's for bigger shows and reserve our Framus, Marshall, ENGL's and so on for the studio unless we're PAID to use them live or again can afford to RISK expensive gear live.

the music business doesn't work like it used to and many in the industry still haven't caught on to WHY. all they know is that "there's no money" anymore which isn't true either. they're just using the wrong business model.

Anyway....yeah we reserve our toneful amps for the studio and our beaters for the stage.

 

[TwinACStacks]

Ditto.. I'm not going to be nice .. It all sounds like crap to me.. no dynamics, no melody, no feel, no music.. I can't name one metal band or even one tune if thats what they are but I've heard some by accident..

Don't waste your money on a good amp if you're going to just make noise..

Somone mentioned Blackstar up there I think.. I heard a guy playing through a 2x12 model last time I was in Sam Ash and I was quite impressed for what they cost..

Somone enlighten me on this though.. Is there any of that bashing metal that is good ? I really should have more of an open mind I guess..

NOPE. Now just realize this is MY Opinion, but I don't like metal for the same reasons as you Zen. It sounds just like a wall of noise. Period. I really don't see any redeeming qualities to that Genre. If they don't like me bashing it then OH WELL....


TWIN

 

[TwinACStacks]

you know you're old when you hate what's new

Don't HATE it. I reserve that for RAP and HIP HOP. I just plain old ordinary don't like it, and am not very impressed with the new stuff. It doesn't blow up my skirt.

TWIN

 

[diesect20022000]

Don't HATE it. I reserve that for RAP and HIP HOP. I just plain old ordinary don't like it, and am not very impressed with the new stuff. It doesn't blow up my skirt.

TWIN

yeah that happens when you get older though. you stop liking newer stuff in general and yeah there's alot of bad music out there but that's not reserved to modern metal. i doubt you've really looked that hard in all fairness being that metal in general isn't your thing which is completely fine. i don't care that you don't like it. taste in music's personal like anything else. i just think it's a little far to say it's ALL bad when it's not. i could easily say that about country as it's not something i really listen to but i'm willing to bet in much the same regard there IS good country out there but as i'm not hellbent on obtaining it via in depth searching to begin with i won't likely hear it anytime soon.

there's some really good modern metal out there you just have to wade through a sea of feces like everything else now. at that point in time in the 60's electric gutiar and rock were relatively new, there weren't as many people and not as many players out there as there are now (mathematical fact) so it's akin to looking through a couple boxes to find something versus a city trying to find that same thing....more to wade through which means LESS likely in finding what's "good" (to the listener/YOU). on top of the general trend of getting older and just not liking what's new and current. that's also a pretty normal thing and nothing to be ashamed of. i don't like what's being called punk and hardcore now compared to the old stuff. i'm USED to the OLD stuff, it's what I associate with those genres much the same as your associations.

in short, no big deal, i understand the real reasons behind peoples tastes and distastes. the funny thing is is those cats were all doing the same things: trying to do something that was THEIRS OR trying to do something that people would like (page as an example, was very keen on finding what was his but would SELL) if everyone played hendrix or zep now it'd be fucking boring and i like those bands. of course you like that though, that's from "your time". much like the kids of THIS time like the shit we don't like OF this time

it's a silly cycle and again verifies age in many instances. quality of music's in the ear of the beholder anyway. good and bad are subjective and generaly based on familiarity of the listener (or nostalgia). not everyone works this way and those that do don't always ONLY work this way (regarding ALL things) but it's a pretty typical thing, very normal.

confound television shows today! "damn new fangled cars!" and so on. it shows your time is passing and that's uncomfortable for most people so they get all preachy and pissy touting "their day" as 'A BETTER day' when there's not really any better it's all subjective.

this in general terms here by the way not calling you old.....you old fart

 

[jvm210guy]

Probably because you can find a Peavey 5150 for cheap, and will sound good..

 

[Wycked Lester]

i think its because most players don't know what good metal tone is.

For one thing, everything is way overproduced,... when you listen to the classic enter sandman riff, you are realy hearing about 1/2 dozen guitar tracks eq'd every where from super boosted hi's and lows, to mega scooped mids,.. and alot inbetween, .... and also a bass.

When you scoop the fuck out of a nice solid state crate [can you say 'shape' knob] or line sux, and turn the gain to insane, and the vol down to bedroom level, .... it sorta gives the illusion of having this big monster tone. Then thats the sound you get used to, and thats your sound the whole time your learning and practicing,...which does 2 things,... fucks up your sense of how to achieve real metal tone,... AND teaches you to play sloppy and with bad habbits, because so much of your actual articulation is covered up, you'll suck and never even know it.

Then they get in a band and constantly chase that '6 guitars and a bass' tone and almost always end up going about it 180 degrees the wrong way.

 

[Wycked Lester]

guitar tone seems to be alot like women in that whatever makes the most sense is usually the opposite of what you should do


....it like, 'my guitar need to sound heavier, i think i'll cut back the gain and bass then turn my mids up" yea right....

 

[wakjob]

Metal. Such a touchy feely subject. Lots and lots and lots of really bad metal out there.

I used to be the biggest Death Metal/Thrash head ever. But like many here, as I've gotten 'older', I just can't deal with the abrasive vocal work. I respect it as an art form, but I can't listen to very much of it anymore.

I still love the symphonic power metal style with falsetto singing ( think Helloween ), but mostly just listen to instrumental metal now.

CloudKicker, Chimp Spanner, Animals as Leaders, Gru, Transcentdental Existence, Haji's Kitchen, Fred Brum, ect...

It's too bad that some crap metal put a bad taste in non-metal people's mouths. But it's not going to stop me from seeing Opeth and Katatonia in May!

BTW: Marshall's still do modern metal. Ola Englund's JVM video was stellar.

What makes a great modern metal tone, where it originated, how it came about and why is a subject unto it's own. If you think fuzzy/fizzy gained out stock Recto. tone is modern metal, you needn't bother responding to this thread because you have no clue.

Die hit it on the head. And he's got good metal tone to back it up.

 

[ibmorjamn]

yeah that happens when you get older though. you stop liking newer stuff in general and yeah there's alot of bad music out there but that's not reserved to modern metal. i doubt you've really looked that hard in all fairness being that metal in general isn't your thing which is completely fine. i don't care that you don't like it. taste in music's personal like anything else. i just think it's a little far to say it's ALL bad when it's not. i could easily say that about country as it's not something i really listen to but i'm willing to bet in much the same regard there IS good country out there but as i'm not hellbent on obtaining it via in depth searching to begin with i won't likely hear it anytime soon.

there's some really good modern metal out there you just have to wade through a sea of feces like everything else now. at that point in time in the 60's electric gutiar and rock were relatively new, there weren't as many people and not as many players out there as there are now (mathematical fact) so it's akin to looking through a couple boxes to find something versus a city trying to find that same thing....more to wade through which means LESS likely in finding what's "good" (to the listener/YOU). on top of the general trend of getting older and just not liking what's new and current. that's also a pretty normal thing and nothing to be ashamed of. i don't like what's being called punk and hardcore now compared to the old stuff. i'm USED to the OLD stuff, it's what I associate with those genres much the same as your associations.

in short, no big deal, i understand the real reasons behind peoples tastes and distastes. the funny thing is is those cats were all doing the same things: trying to do something that was THEIRS OR trying to do something that people would like (page as an example, was very keen on finding what was his but would SELL) if everyone played hendrix or zep now it'd be fucking boring and i like those bands. of course you like that though, that's from "your time". much like the kids of THIS time like the shit we don't like OF this time

it's a silly cycle and again verifies age in many instances. quality of music's in the ear of the beholder anyway. good and bad are subjective and generaly based on familiarity of the listener (or nostalgia). not everyone works this way and those that do don't always ONLY work this way (regarding ALL things) but it's a pretty typical thing, very normal.

confound television shows today! "damn new fangled cars!" and so on. it shows your time is passing and that's uncomfortable for most people so they get all preachy and pissy touting "their day" as 'A BETTER day' when there's not really any better it's all subjective.

this in general terms here by the way not calling you old.....you old fart

Live in the now, old what ever. Yeah ! I'm getting back in to guitar playing at 52 . been away for4 or 5 years.I have not embraced playing much since my early 20's but I always listen to music and usually kept a guitar close by. I have all the bad playing habits but I still like playing and jamming with a drummer. Last week was the first time I played with a drummer in more than 30 years.

Arch Enemy guitarist and Dean artist Michael Ammot is a fan of Michael Schenker and it shows. Not all newer music is bad but like you are saying there is a bigger pool of crap now. (Yes #1 Schenker Fan and Dean Guitar Fan here )

 

[DSL 50]

The JVM has it's newer fans

 

[TwinACStacks]

Just gonna throw this at you Die, Old fart Hmmmmm. I took my 15 yr. old daughter to see these guys Last summer at an area local Fair/Concert. They are her favorite Group, (she's also into Avenged Sevenfold, go figure) They actually were VERY good, This song in Particular Slays. They finished with an EXACT rendition of "Carry On my Wayward Son" note for note, along with the Vocals which allowed me to concede they were actually decent, LOVED THE VOXES:

The Video is hokier than Shit though.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xDf-_8KvGM[/ame]

"ONE SMALL STEP FOR MAN...."

TWIN

 

[diesect20022000]

i hear you twin but i'm not a journey fan. that shit's for 80's chicks

but you're a cool cat you and i BOTH know it brother

 

[drewfx]

Metal. Such a touchy feely subject. Lots and lots and lots of really bad metal out there.

I used to be the biggest Death Metal/Thrash head ever. But like many here, as I've gotten 'older', I just can't deal with the abrasive vocal work. I respect it as an art form, but I can't listen to very much of it anymore.

I still love the symphonic power metal style with falsetto singing ( think Helloween ), but mostly just listen to instrumental metal now.

CloudKicker, Chimp Spanner, Animals as Leaders, Gru, Transcentdental Existence, Haji's Kitchen, Fred Brum, ect...

It's too bad that some crap metal put a bad taste in non-metal people's mouths. But it's not going to stop me from seeing Opeth and Katatonia in May!

BTW: Marshall's still do modern metal. Ola Englund's JVM video was stellar.

What makes a great modern metal tone, where it originated, how it came about and why is a subject unto it's own. If you think fuzzy/fizzy gained out stock Recto. tone is modern metal, you needn't bother responding to this thread because you have no clue.

Die hit it on the head. And he's got good metal tone to back it up.

You might like my band: Tacoma Narrows Bridge Disaster

 

[diesect20022000]

Metal. Such a touchy feely subject. Lots and lots and lots of really bad metal out there.

I used to be the biggest Death Metal/Thrash head ever. But like many here, as I've gotten 'older', I just can't deal with the abrasive vocal work. I respect it as an art form, but I can't listen to very much of it anymore.

I still love the symphonic power metal style with falsetto singing ( think Helloween ), but mostly just listen to instrumental metal now.

CloudKicker, Chimp Spanner, Animals as Leaders, Gru, Transcentdental Existence, Haji's Kitchen, Fred Brum, ect...

It's too bad that some crap metal put a bad taste in non-metal people's mouths. But it's not going to stop me from seeing Opeth and Katatonia in May!

BTW: Marshall's still do modern metal. Ola Englund's JVM video was stellar.

What makes a great modern metal tone, where it originated, how it came about and why is a subject unto it's own. If you think fuzzy/fizzy gained out stock Recto. tone is modern metal, you needn't bother responding to this thread because you have no clue.

Die hit it on the head. And he's got good metal tone to back it up.

thanks man i appreciate the compliment

 

[TwinACStacks]

i hear you twinn but i'm not a journey fan. that shit's for 80's chicks

but you're a cool cat you and i BOTH know it brother

BELIEVE it or not Die, I actually bought My wife a "Best of Journey" CD for Xmas.

She bought me "Celebration Day" DVD/CD set.

I ever tell You I love her Sweet Brown Ass?

TWIN

 

[Ghostman]

These forum arguments are beginning to become repetitive bullshit. The same excuse is used over and over and over. Players ditch Marshall because other brands give them the gear to endorse.

Get a grip and come to terms that players change amplifiers because THEY SOUND FUCKING DIFFERENT!!!!! Yes, there are some things that even the great and powerful Marshall can't do for some players' tone. If a guitarist doesn't like the sound of what is hitting his ears, he tries something else.

If it were that simple to get guitarists to play other brands, then Crate would be giving away amps like hot cakes.

Now can we finally get over the only reason players use other brand amps is because someone gave him one?!?!?

 

[diesect20022000]

These forum arguments are beginning to become repetitive bullshit. The same excuse is used over and over and over. Players ditch Marshall because other brands give them the gear to endorse.

Get a grip and come to terms that players change amplifiers because THEY SOUND FUCKING DIFFERENT!!!!! Yes, there are some things that even the great and powerful Marshall can't do for some players' tone. If a guitarist doesn't like the sound of what is hitting his ears, he tries something else.

If it were that simple to get guitarists to play other brands, then Crate would be giving away amps like hot cakes.

Now can we finally get over the only reason players use other brand amps is because someone gave him one?!?!?

yeah CRATE did try that. i used to get cabinets and heads from them free all the time. i liked shooting them

there are many reasons and all of the ones mentioned have SOME truth and some falseness imho.

some get free shit so they sign deals that require them to tout the gear (very common and DOES sell products) some don't, some don't like them (GASP as you point out here) and so on. many reasons. just the nature of the game.

it IS a business and an industry so it works like any other business. there's a lot of hype and BS and so on but yeah many players sign a deal for the money and are required to APPEAR to use them and even have to pump them in interviews etc. it's up to them wether they sign that or not but when they do it's a contract and they're legaly obligated to fulfill their part of the "deal" or JOB.

some use an amp for tone but a fake in front for appearances, dummy heads are common etc....it's all what the player and their deals are into and there's as much variation in this argument as any other....so yeah it's a silly argument but most are but they ARE amusing

 

[Ghostman]

i think its because most players don't know what good metal tone is.

....When you scoop the fuck out of a nice solid state crate [can you say 'shape' knob] or line sux, and turn the gain to insane, and the vol down to bedroom level, .... it sorta gives the illusion of having this big monster tone. Then thats the sound you get used to, and thats your sound the whole time your learning and practicing,...which does 2 things,... fucks up your sense of how to achieve real metal tone,... AND teaches you to play sloppy and with bad habbits, because so much of your actual articulation is covered up, you'll suck and never even know it.

Lester, YOU hit this on the head. Most guitarists don't know what great tone is because....they never had access to the proper gear to play on. I guarantee that every single guitarist when they started out for the first few years, they had shit to practice and learn on, all the while trying to achieve the tone they heard on the tapes, and CD's... yes I said tapes.

I realized that I had reached maturity when I finally came to grips with the fact that I really didn't want a Marshall stack because I have never heard a full Marshall stack. I've heard recordings, I've been to concerts, but I have never stood in front of one and really played to know exactly what it sounds like and if I really like the sound.

 

[Australian]

Imho cookie monster vocals were invented because:
1. the guy couldnt sing.
2. He was angry.
3. So that no one could understand his badly written lyrics.
4. He had a piss weak voice and piss weak personality so had to pretend to sound mean.
5. Again he lacked vocal technique and musicallity.

Cookie monster vocals are just a flash in the pan.
F*ck you cookie monster vocals!!

Pantera is excluded from my rant. They kicked ass!!