How to use a 2205

[FutureProf88]

Although I don't own one, I love the tones I have heard from the ~1987 2205's. I read an interesting article once about them and I wanted to get your takes on it.

It said that the "channel switching" JCM 800's were not actually designed to be "multi channel" amps, per se, at least not in the modern sense. Rather, it said you will notice that the OD channel on a JCM 800 is labeled "boost." Marshall realized that many people were putting things like Tube Screamers in front of the amps and decided to add that type of functionality, along with reverb, in to the amp.

The author said that how the amp was meant to be used was that you crank Channel 1 up to where you want it to get a nice, thick general tone. Then, you set Channel 2 based on where you set Channel 1. You should set Channel 2 so that it gives a slight volume jump and a little bit of extra gain, similar to if you kicked an OD pedal on in front of the amp. They were designed to be boosted single channel amps like the VM, but people realized that they could crank the master and leave the volume low on Channel 1 to get a clean sound, then leave the output on Channel 2 way down crank the gain up to get loads of overdrive. That's why the amps sound thin.

I've seen some videos of these amps run this way and they sound absolutely stellar. Do you think that was Marshall's original design intent?

 

[ricksteruk]

That definitely makes sense to me.

I bought a 4210 a while ago and I was hoping to get clean from the "normal" channel but as you say it made it sound very thin set like that - it definitely worked best when I used normal as crunch and boost for leads.

Kind of wish I hadn't sold the amp - but I needed the cash and I didn't really like the combo open back speaker sound either. I might invest in a 2205 head at some point though.

 

[Msharky67]

That definitely makes sense to me.

I bought a 4210 a while ago and I was hoping to get clean from the "normal" channel but as you say it made it sound very thin set like that - it definitely worked best when I used normal as crunch and boost for leads.

Kind of wish I hadn't sold the amp - but I needed the cash and I didn't really like the combo open back speaker sound either. I might invest in a 2205 head at some point though.

I just got a 4210 recently. I am still figuring out how to use it. First I am cleaning it up since it is pretty beat up. I just painted the grill cloth and am working on the dings. The reverb is not working well and the FX loop isn't either. The amp was sitting in water or moisture so the Reverb tank and speaker shell is corroded. The speaker works and I cleaned everything with electronic cleaner. The reverb I don't know but I know its an easy fix. Any tips on the FX loop? I have heard it has issues. I plan on taking it to my tech once I get some funds to pay for the repairs. But for $350 for the amp I shouldn't complain. I think I got a steal for it.

 

[acidvoodoo]

Although I don't own one, I love the tones I have heard from the ~1987 2205's. I read an interesting article once about them and I wanted to get your takes on it.

It said that the "channel switching" JCM 800's were not actually designed to be "multi channel" amps, per se, at least not in the modern sense. Rather, it said you will notice that the OD channel on a JCM 800 is labeled "boost." Marshall realized that many people were putting things like Tube Screamers in front of the amps and decided to add that type of functionality, along with reverb, in to the amp.

The author said that how the amp was meant to be used was that you crank Channel 1 up to where you want it to get a nice, thick general tone. Then, you set Channel 2 based on where you set Channel 1. You should set Channel 2 so that it gives a slight volume jump and a little bit of extra gain, similar to if you kicked an OD pedal on in front of the amp. They were designed to be boosted single channel amps like the VM, but people realized that they could crank the master and leave the volume low on Channel 1 to get a clean sound, then leave the output on Channel 2 way down crank the gain up to get loads of overdrive. That's why the amps sound thin.

I've seen some videos of these amps run this way and they sound absolutely stellar. Do you think that was Marshall's original design intent?

That is interesting, probably how they intended the 3203 to be used as well.

 

[12barjunkie]

... I just painted the grill cloth ...

what!?

 

[ricksteruk]

I just got a 4210 recently. I am still figuring out how to use it. First I am cleaning it up since it is pretty beat up. I just painted the grill cloth and am working on the dings. The reverb is not working well and the FX loop isn't either. The amp was sitting in water or moisture so the Reverb tank and speaker shell is corroded. The speaker works and I cleaned everything with electronic cleaner. The reverb I don't know but I know its an easy fix. Any tips on the FX loop? I have heard it has issues. I plan on taking it to my tech once I get some funds to pay for the repairs. But for $350 for the amp I shouldn't complain. I think I got a steal for it.

The main issue with the FX loop for me was the fact that it is post master volume.. that means to get a good signal level into your FX loop pedals you need to run the amps master volume on 10.. which is very loud! To counteract this I used to use a volume pedal as the last pedal in my FX loop which then effectively became the Master Volume for the amp.

If you can stretch to the extra few buck you can buy new speaker grill cloth for the combo - in the UK it's about £15 for a piece big enough for a combo.. the spray paint might block some high frequencies depending on how thick you had to spray it to cover the water damage. There are several helpful threads on the forum with photos showing how to change grill cloth.. I did the piping on my JMD head recently and it's pretty much the same process.. just different staples to remove.. you will need a staple gun to do the job quickly.

 

[wallythacker]

Although I don't own one, I love the tones I have heard from the ~1987 2205's. I read an interesting article once about them and I wanted to get your takes on it.

It said that the "channel switching" JCM 800's were not actually designed to be "multi channel" amps, per se, at least not in the modern sense. Rather, it said you will notice that the OD channel on a JCM 800 is labeled "boost." Marshall realized that many people were putting things like Tube Screamers in front of the amps and decided to add that type of functionality, along with reverb, in to the amp.

The author said that how the amp was meant to be used was that you crank Channel 1 up to where you want it to get a nice, thick general tone. Then, you set Channel 2 based on where you set Channel 1. You should set Channel 2 so that it gives a slight volume jump and a little bit of extra gain, similar to if you kicked an OD pedal on in front of the amp. They were designed to be boosted single channel amps like the VM, but people realized that they could crank the master and leave the volume low on Channel 1 to get a clean sound, then leave the output on Channel 2 way down crank the gain up to get loads of overdrive. That's why the amps sound thin.

I've seen some videos of these amps run this way and they sound absolutely stellar. Do you think that was Marshall's original design intent?

I imagine this would apply to the 2210 as well? I bought that one on a lark and had buyer's remorse ever since. Perhaps this hint will give me some decent sound out of it and alleviate some of my regret.

 

[Msharky67]

The main issue with the FX loop for me was the fact that it is post master volume.. that means to get a good signal level into your FX loop pedals you need to run the amps master volume on 10.. which is very loud! To counteract this I used to use a volume pedal as the last pedal in my FX loop which then effectively became the Master Volume for the amp.

If you can stretch to the extra few buck you can buy new speaker grill cloth for the combo - in the UK it's about £15 for a piece big enough for a combo.. the spray paint might block some high frequencies depending on how thick you had to spray it to cover the water damage. There are several helpful threads on the forum with photos showing how to change grill cloth.. I did the piping on my JMD head recently and it's pretty much the same process.. just different staples to remove.. you will need a staple gun to do the job quickly.

Would those volume box things with an in/out jack ,knob work for this at the end of my chain? If so those are cheap enough to get.

 

[ricksteruk]

Would those volume box things with an in/out jack ,knob work for this at the end of my chain? If so those are cheap enough to get.

Yes a simple pedal like that will work fine... like this one:

NosePedal.com

 

[medicjg]

The loop on the early model split channel 800s absolutely sucked. However in the later models the loop works just fine with pedals with the MV at just barely one. I have both an 82 and an 87. The loop in the later model Post 86 is very high quality. If you have an early one I suggest running a second amp with a decent loop. As far as the normal channel it is almost impossible to get a good tone out of both channels without adjusting the MV. The normal channel has beautiful Fender like cleans with the MV set high. I look at the split channel as a single channel amp with two modes.

 

[Pleximan]

The loop on the early model split channel 800s absolutely sucked. However in the later models the loop works just fine with pedals with the MV at just barely one. I have both an 82 and an 87. The loop in the later model Post 86 is very high quality. If you have an early one I suggest running a second amp with a decent loop. As far as the normal channel it is almost impossible to get a good tone out of both channels without adjusting the MV. The normal channel has beautiful Fender like cleans with the MV set high. I look at the split channel as a single channel amp with two modes.

I had an early 80's model and the loop sucked. Not too sure what year Michael Schenker's is but his sounded killer live with delay in the loop...He must have the later version.

 

[eastwood6]

The theory expressed by the OP is correct. The JCM era amps were designed before the concept of multi-channel amps with a "clean" and "dirty" channel became commonplace.

As the owner of a 3203 Artist, it was explained to me by Marshall tech support that the amp should be set up as the OP indicated - find a good crunch tone on the Normal channel, and then a singing lead tone on the Boost channel. That's the way the channel switching 800 era amps were designed, and that's how they sound best.

It's a Marshall. You want clean? Buy a F*nd*r.

 

[buzz]

I tend to disagree with the 'its a single channel with a boost' theory. I get crystal cleans from my 4211 and an awesome crunch with the boost gain at 7-8 (feels like this is the point were the diodes clipping really starts to come in). if it was designed as a single channel, why would they only put treble and bass on the first channel and treble, mids and bass on the boost???

just sayin.....but I have what I believe is a killer, extremely flexible 'two' channel amp....

 

[Mosher Zone]

The main issue with the FX loop for me was the fact that it is post master volume.. that means to get a good signal level into your FX loop pedals you need to run the amps master volume on 10.. which is very loud! To counteract this I used to use a volume pedal as the last pedal in my FX loop which then effectively became the Master Volume for the amp.

.

I used to have 2205 but never really used the loop back then. I'm not sure but I suspect that the loop is similar to the loop on the Mosfet amps as it's post Master too. I could never get my rack stuff to work in the loop until I sussed out that the Master worked as an input level for the fx, so I don't think you would need to run it on 10, in my case I find that 3-4 on the master is the right signal for the rack unit & it's volume becomes the Master volume for the amp.

 

[ricksteruk]

I used to have 2205 but never really used the loop back then. I'm not sure but I suspect that the loop is similar to the loop on the Mosfet amps as it's post Master too. I could never get my rack stuff to work in the loop until I sussed out that the Master worked as an input level for the fx, so I don't think you would need to run it on 10, in my case I find that 3-4 on the master is the right signal for the rack unit & it's volume becomes the Master volume for the amp.

Yes you might not need MV right up to 10 - it would depend on the piece of gear you had in the loop.. but MV between 1 and 1.5 (bedroom level) is probably not going to be enough.

As you say Mosher - the trick is to think of the amps MV as "FX send level" and then use a volume pedal in the loop (or a pedal with a output volume) to become the Master Volume...

 

[Mosher Zone]

Yeah man, 1-1.5 isn't going to do shit and thats why I was struggling. It's good to know that the 2205 & 10 loop is like my Mosfet cause I want to pick up another 2205 someday.

 

[medicjg]

1.5 on the later circuit is pretty damn loud.

 

[Helix]

The main issue with the FX loop for me was the fact that it is post master volume.. that means to get a good signal level into your FX loop pedals you need to run the amps master volume on 10.. which is very loud! To counteract this I used to use a volume pedal as the last pedal in my FX loop which then effectively became the Master Volume for the amp.

If you can stretch to the extra few buck you can buy new speaker grill cloth for the combo - in the UK it's about £15 for a piece big enough for a combo.. the spray paint might block some high frequencies depending on how thick you had to spray it to cover the water damage. There are several helpful threads on the forum with photos showing how to change grill cloth.. I did the piping on my JMD head recently and it's pretty much the same process.. just different staples to remove.. you will need a staple gun to do the job quickly.

Man, thanks for enlightening me. I always used to have noise issues with the effects loop. Not anymore.

 

[Musicmaniac]

Nothing to add. Just a great amp and I'm listening to Schenker as I type!

 

[fitz]

I have an '84 ~ 4210.
Loop works just fine at any volume.
I also recently put a JHS Little Black Amp Box volume pedal in the loop, and it works great at taming down the preamp signal so there's more control of the MV.