I fell in love with the 1959HW - the question is how to make it usable? PPIMV or else?

[fuzz1222]

We made an amp comparison a few days ago and my buddy's Handwired Plexi totally blew my mind. It provided such a punch compared to my 50 watt JMP that I would have never expected. It was a total beast. I used the following settings: High input, Volume on 10, Presence, Treble, Mid on 10, Bass on 0. Greenback full stack. Sounded absolutely glorious!

One problem: the volume was so intense that it became physically unbearable after a few minutes of playing. Incomparable to my 50 watt JMP. The difference in volume was astonishing.

My goal is not to accommodate the amp to bedroom playing just to cut a few decibels in order to make the volume about equal to my 50 watt JMP and to make it usable on a single Greenback cab. All of the attenuators I've had previously made a terrible job (changed the amp's tone for the worse) and the better ones cost almost as much as the amp itself which is silly. So would a simple master volume mod help me in this regard? Again, the goal is just to cut a few db's while retaining the amp's glorious natural punch. Any tips what would be the best route of achieving this?

Fryette Powerstation, done. Crank the amp and use the re-amp to get lower volumes.. plus you have a effects loop if you want it. There are no completely transparent attenuators, but the Powerstation is amazing for this.. I have one that I use with my 1959HW.

 

[mickeydg5]

The Fryette Powerstation seems to be a good ticket but why limit itself to 50W output. Why not a 100W output?
And it has a lofty price.
But on the other hand it provides a lot to an amplifier without an effects loop and things with no need for modifications.

 

[ItsGiusto]

All of the attenuators I've had previously made a terrible job (changed the amp's tone for the worse) and the better ones cost almost as much as the amp itself which is silly. So would a simple master volume mod help me in this regard? Again, the goal is just to cut a few db's while retaining the amp's glorious natural punch. Any tips what would be the best route of achieving this?

IMO, there's no reason why a PPIMV would work better than an attenuator for maintaining the original tone you want. A plexi gets most of its signature tone by overdriving the power tubes, and if you use a PPIMV, you'll be getting less of that, whereas an attenuator will maintain the overdrive of the power tubes. And a PPIMV will be subject to perceived treble loss just like an attenuator.

I highly recommend the Weber Mass 200. It won't work on a 100 watt plexi if you want bedroom levels, it can't handle that level of power, and it will start smoking. But since you just want to cut the volume a little bit, it's should be safe to use. It also has a treble compensation knob that does a good job of dialing back in treble that may be lost.

Alternatively, you could construct a dirt-cheap fixed-level attenuator. For an example, see this:

Amp Mods

Generic Guitar Tube Amplifier Modifications

robrobinette.com

You could easily build something like that into a project enclosure, and situate it between your amp head and speaker cab.
But obviously you're going to have to use higher power resistors for a 100w amp (or use many lower power resistors chained together), and also match the impedance to the impedance tap you wish to use. If you want to go that route, I could help come up with a schematic of what you'd need to build.

 

[John Stedman]

I have an SLP100 Re-issue and I use a Rivera RockCrusher Recording attenuator with it, which allows me to go from headphone to bedroom to nightclub to stadium levels and everything in between at full-on Plexi glory. I normally plug into a single 1960AX cab (25 watt green backs), but I also have a 1960BX if I ever needed more power handling. The normal RockCrusher is considerably cheaper than the Recording version, I've seen them for sale used around $400.00 here in Canada.

 

[Antti Heikkinen]

Like it's been suggested, an attenuator is one way to go. But, it's not going to be the same feel with one, as much or even most of it comes from the strong 100w pushing the speakers. It's a difficult combo, 100w and classic speakers - it was meant to fill a stage without a PA.

I've battled with 100w Marshalls enough that I gave up eventually, but with my 1959 I used an attenuator when I had it. A high quality, reactive load one, not a simple L pad. But I felt it was complex a system, and while it worked great something was missing.

The trouble is....the punch and power you feel doesn't really record. At least not without a good sounding room and several mics and all that. Also it doesn't really feel the same once you lower the level, when you get it down and play with the band it's likely you'll prefer a lower wattage amp you can crank - I reckon it's more about the speakers than the amp.

Since the 1959 I went 2204 and then JVM and then a Victory V30, Origin 20 moddedand now also an Origin 50.

With the Origin I built a cab with two punch, effective Eminence speakers that give a clear, mighty kick even at lower volumes, which is something Greenbacks etc simply don't give, and two celestions....now I get a very similar punchy feel with a lot less volume.

For me anyway, it's not so important what kind of punch I personally feel, it's FAR more important how it gets on recordings and out to the crowd. Ultimately we get a MUCH better sound using just 20-40w amps as monitors basically, and mix everything in the PA.

Besides, we use IEMs anyway...there's no way I'd ever play without IEMs again, so it's ultimately even better to just use modelers for that and PA, and real amps just to fill the stage enough to be on par with drums. And for that 20w tube is plenty with effective speakers.

Even if I won the lottery I'd never buy a 100w classic Marshall again. I've had half a dozen and they just don't fit the modern world, fun and awesome as they are for the player alone to crank up now and then. I can get that same 'fix' with my tweaked Origin rig when I want to and IRL I'll anyway rather use modelers for recording and FOH sound because they're simply better.

 

[Rezamatix]

I use the Fryette PS-100 and variac with my 71 SL and looooove it.

 

[PHUSION974]

Few years ago I had a PPMV installed and haven’t looked back.
Prior to that, I used an attenuator (Rivera Rockcrusher) which is a good option for taming these things.

 

[79 2203]

I’d definitely go an attenuator. Something like a Powerstation or Iron Man.
I only turn my amps to around 6-7 and I’m happy enough with my Hotplate knocking 8db off my 71 1987 and 12db off my 70 Super Bass. George Metropaulos uses a Hotplate at -12db with his cranked 100 watt Plexi, and if it’s good enough for George it’s good enough for me.

 

[mplecha]

The ps2 is the way to go. I’ve used one with my 50 watter so long I forgot how loud it really is, but the sound, aggression and punch is all still there.

 

[Guitaraficionado74]

Plenty of great attenuators on the market these days.
- Expensive and bulky but superb sound: Boss TAE (does A LOT more than just attenuation). As the previous poster said: this piece of kit REALLY is a gamechanger for us tube-heads. Makes every tubeamp sound glorious at ANY volume.
- Cheaper and also a very good option: Hotplate. You can get one used for $300.
- I find PPIMV's not very useful: you really have to turn those way down to get a significant reduction in volume.
- You could also try less efficient speakers. But that's the least practical option really, and not cheap either.

But I wonder why the OP has the volume on 10? Rarely does this give you a great tone on a plexi... I keep it between 4-6 to get the sweet spot (not that that makes it quieter, but it just sound much better than crancked).

 

[bad565ss]

I use a Badcat Unleash V2 with my 1959HW.
It's a reamplifier really. Also has 2 foot switchable masters with trim pots.
I've been happy with it.

 

[Dry Toast]

BOSS Tube Amp Expanders and Fryette Power Stations have already both been mentioned. If you just want decibel control and as-honest-as-possible tone in the room, still from your speakers, I’d lean Fryette. Tone alone, A/B them, the Fryette wins. Not in all contexts, and not by a lot, but it does. I think the BOSS may do some things the Fryette doesn’t (or just does them better), for that, Universal Audio OX Box.

In my not so humble opinion, the only real decision to make here is which Fryette. Do you need two different footswitchable levels to be able to stand out more on-command? Would you like to also be able to bring something smaller (Deluxe, Champ, etc.) up to 100 watts? The PS-100. Don’t need the versatility, and living at 50w is fine? PS-2A.

 

[Philbert354]

I have a 1959HW. I added the PPIMV. I have tried several cheap and expensive power attenuators/loads, etc. I hate them all, to varying degrees. None sound natural to me and seem to take away the dynamics and “feel”. The PPIMV sounds stock when up above half. Still loud, but takes it down a notch. You ca take it down to bedoom level if you want. Not sure what others mean by losing treble. Mine still has ear bleeding highs if you want them. Put the vol knob in the second speaker out slot so no drilling and can return to stock if you want. No power att box to lug around. I use the 1959HW with either a blues driver or a tube screamer and a les paul. Just killer tone.

 

[FleshOnGear]

@Guitaraficionado74, I wonder about your assertion that Plexis don’t normally sound their best cranked. My 1987 sounds glorious at 10, and even better when it’s boosted. My SV20 sounds pretty great at 10, though on that one you need to keep the treble down to avoid that crushing glass sound. Granted, these are only two examples, but am I really that lucky?

I’m more curious about how OP needs to keep his bass at zero. @LPman, do you really prefer such a cutting tone, or do you just get unpleasant distortion artifacts with the bass dialed up? Even just a little bit?

 

[Guitaraficionado74]

@Guitaraficionado74, I wonder about your assertion that Plexis don’t normally sound their best cranked. My 1987 sounds glorious at 10, and even better when it’s boosted. My SV20 sounds pretty great at 10, though on that one you need to keep the treble down to avoid that crushing glass sound. Granted, these are only two examples, but am I really that lucky?

I’m more curious about how OP needs to keep his bass at zero. @LPman, do you really prefer such a cutting tone, or do you just get unpleasant distortion artifacts with the bass dialed up? Even just a little bit?

Oh well, we all have different ears, ànd different amps. In my experience, most tube amps become muddy and less defined once past 8 or so. Not to mention hard to separate in a band mix. But yours may differ, of course.

 

[peterplexi]

I also have a 1959 Hand Wired 100 watts plexi. Which of all the attenuators keeps the tone untouched or unaltered?

The Fryette Power Station! (PS-100).

 

[peterplexi]

Oh well, we all have different ears, ànd different amps. In my experience, most tube amps become muddy and less defined once past 8 or so. Not to mention hard to separate in a band mix. But yours may differ, of course.

Idealy you are backing your volume down for most of the playing then wide open for solos.

 

[Jmyer1969]

We made an amp comparison a few days ago and my buddy's Handwired Plexi totally blew my mind. It provided such a punch compared to my 50 watt JMP that I would have never expected. It was a total beast. I used the following settings: High input, Volume on 10, Presence, Treble, Mid on 10, Bass on 0. Greenback full stack. Sounded absolutely glorious!

One problem: the volume was so intense that it became physically unbearable after a few minutes of playing. Incomparable to my 50 watt JMP. The difference in volume was astonishing.

My goal is not to accommodate the amp to bedroom playing just to cut a few decibels in order to make the volume about equal to my 50 watt JMP and to make it usable on a single Greenback cab. All of the attenuators I've had previously made a terrible job (changed the amp's tone for the worse) and the better ones cost almost as much as the amp itself which is silly. So would a simple master volume mod help me in this regard? Again, the goal is just to cut a few db's while retaining the amp's glorious natural punch. Any tips what would be the best route of achieving this?

Have you tried a variac? May only need starving it by 10-15% to get where you need it.I think Eddie v use to set his to 88 or 89.

 

[tonelicious101]

We made an amp comparison a few days ago and my buddy's Handwired Plexi totally blew my mind. It provided such a punch compared to my 50 watt JMP that I would have never expected. It was a total beast. I used the following settings: High input, Volume on 10, Presence, Treble, Mid on 10, Bass on 0. Greenback full stack. Sounded absolutely glorious!

One problem: the volume was so intense that it became physically unbearable after a few minutes of playing. Incomparable to my 50 watt JMP. The difference in volume was astonishing.

My goal is not to accommodate the amp to bedroom playing just to cut a few decibels in order to make the volume about equal to my 50 watt JMP and to make it usable on a single Greenback cab. All of the attenuators I've had previously made a terrible job (changed the amp's tone for the worse) and the better ones cost almost as much as the amp itself which is silly. So would a simple master volume mod help me in this regard? Again, the goal is just to cut a few db's while retaining the amp's glorious natural punch. Any tips what would be the best route of achieving this?

Ive got a stock 2020 1959HW and Cab. Just love them.
Though an expensive option, Im running through a Freyette PS 100.
Not only does it arguably sound better, but I get a real nice fx loop for my time effects.
A cheaper option if your not ready to take MV mod, would consider another attenuator.
I started off w/ an older Ultimate attenuator, paid $400. It also has a built in 90v plexi sag switch that sounds really nice.

No getting around playing loud w/ or without a magic box bc you need to crank those too.

My Metro superplex has a great ppimv and it sounds really great. Nearly identical to the mod kits you can buy.
But still this aint no bedroom amp!
Cheers

 

[Metroman]

The 100w amp is 3db louder than the 50w amp, taking into account both are running 1 x 4 x 12. Add another 4 x 12, and you add another 3db, which is now 6db louder than a 50w amp, and a 1 x 4 x 12, with the same speakers. You need to cut 6db to get it down to 50w level, using 2 x 4 x 12 cabinets.

Id look into an SPL Reducer. it works between Head-Cabinet. Though its not cheap. $450.00