I fell in love with the 1959HW - the question is how to make it usable? PPIMV or else?

[Resident 217]

"...attenuators ..changed the amp's tone for the worse... would a simple master volume mod help me in this regard...">cut a few decibels <"... in order to make the volume about equal to my 50 watt JMP..."

Maybe try using a different speaker configuration for each amp?

Speaker stuff

 

[rolijen]

Not

The Fryette Powerstation seems to be a good ticket but why limit itself to 50W output. Why not a 100W output?
And it has a lofty price.
But on the other hand it provides a lot to an amplifier without an effects loop and things with no need for modifications.

Both the Fryette Power Station and the Boss Waza TAE put out 100watts. They are the most transparent units out there. Again, pricey, but well worth it for the loop, and the line in and line out and in the case of the Boss Waza, killer studio effects, solo boost, headphone out (yes totally silent to the external world but raging 1959 goodness in the cans), midi control, usb interface, and a bunch more. I gigged with a 1959 slp w 2 4x12 cabs for years and I assure you, nothing scratches that itch like the Power Station or the TAE. In my case, the TAE is the one I use the most and has become the center of my rig. Best gear purchase I’ve made in years. My Marshalls are now totally usable in my home studio at any hour of the day or night. Bonus—both the Fryette and Boss units can take your favorite 1watt, 5watt, 8watt, 15watt, etc amp and re-amp it with 100watts. Simply killer. This is my report.

 

[Resident 217]

Something like a 2x12 stereo cab using dis-similar speakers one highly efficient and the other not as much.
Each head would have its own side. A balance could be achieved after experimenting . For example the more efficient speaker might work better with the louder amp but at a lower volume or visa versa, etc.

 

[Fredmant]

We made an amp comparison a few days ago and my buddy's Handwired Plexi totally blew my mind. It provided such a punch compared to my 50 watt JMP that I would have never expected. It was a total beast. I used the following settings: High input, Volume on 10, Presence, Treble, Mid on 10, Bass on 0. Greenback full stack. Sounded absolutely glorious!

One problem: the volume was so intense that it became physically unbearable after a few minutes of playing. Incomparable to my 50 watt JMP. The difference in volume was astonishing.

My goal is not to accommodate the amp to bedroom playing just to cut a few decibels in order to make the volume about equal to my 50 watt JMP and to make it usable on a single Greenback cab. All of the attenuators I've had previously made a terrible job (changed the amp's tone for the worse) and the better ones cost almost as much as the amp itself which is silly. So would a simple master volume mod help me in this regard? Again, the goal is just to cut a few db's while retaining the amp's glorious natural punch. Any tips what would be the best route of achieving this?

I would stand much further away.

 

[Dean Swindell]

We made an amp comparison a few days ago and my buddy's Handwired Plexi totally blew my mind. It provided such a punch compared to my 50 watt JMP that I would have never expected. It was a total beast. I used the following settings: High input, Volume on 10, Presence, Treble, Mid on 10, Bass on 0. Greenback full stack. Sounded absolutely glorious!

One problem: the volume was so intense that it became physically unbearable after a few minutes of playing. Incomparable to my 50 watt JMP. The difference in volume was astonishing.

My goal is not to accommodate the amp to bedroom playing just to cut a few decibels in order to make the volume about equal to my 50 watt JMP and to make it usable on a single Greenback cab. All of the attenuators I've had previously made a terrible job (changed the amp's tone for the worse) and the better ones cost almost as much as the amp itself which is silly. So would a simple master volume mod help me in this regard? Again, the goal is just to cut a few db's while retaining the amp's glorious natural punch. Any tips what would be the best route of achieving this?

I've tried both cheap and expensive attenuators and they just have a funny sound I don't like. The best luck I've had is the Trainwreck master volume #1. The #2 is the one everybody seems to think is great but I don't like how it messes with the sound or what it's actually doing to the bias circuit. Even the ultra simple TW #3 is pretty good but the #1 always has a nice taper and just sounds good. I do a slightly more refined construction than the picture shows, and I use four .047 to roughly achieve the original .02 value so as to retain the original sound as much as possible. It's great in my Granger 1987, '67 Twin and Showman amps, along with a dozen friend's amps.

 

[mickeydg5]

Not

Both the Fryette Power Station and the Boss Waza TAE put out 100watts. They are the most transparent units out there. Again, pricey, but well worth it for the loop, and the line in and line out and in the case of the Boss Waza, killer studio effects, solo boost, headphone out (yes totally silent to the external world but raging 1959 goodness in the cans), midi control, usb interface, and a bunch more. I gigged with a 1959 slp w 2 4x12 cabs for years and I assure you, nothing scratches that itch like the Power Station or the TAE. In my case, the TAE is the one I use the most and has become the center of my rig. Best gear purchase I’ve made in years. My Marshalls are now totally usable in my home studio at any hour of the day or night. Bonus—both the Fryette and Boss units can take your favorite 1watt, 5watt, 8watt, 15watt, etc amp and re-amp it with 100watts. Simply killer. This is my report.

Oh sorry about that. I see there is the PS-2 versions and then the PS-100.
Great tools.

 

[Trelwheen]

I've never been able to figure out why so many people buy a 1987 or a 1959 and then put a master volume on it.

Once they do that it's no longer the amp it was when they got it. It will never, it can never, sound the same again.

The only way to change the output of those amps without changing their character entirely is with an attenuator.

If you want an amp with master volume, just buy one instead of butchering an old classic.
That's why Marshall made the 2203 and 2204. I like them better than 1987s and 1959s anyway.

IMNSFHO

YMMV

IME

OSISTM

 

[Philbert354]

I've never been able to figure out why so many people buy a 1987 or a 1959 and then put a master volume on it.

Once they do that it's no longer the amp it was when they got it. It will never, it can never, sound the same again.

The only way to change the output of those amps without changing their character entirely is with an attenuator.

If you want an amp with master volume, just buy one instead of butchering an old classic.
That's why Marshall made the 2203 and 2204. I like them better than 1987s and 1959s anyway.

IMNSFHO

YMMV

IME

OSISTM

Turn the master all the way up… at least the way I modded my amp, and it’s the exact same circuit.

 

[MichiMarshall]

So users prefer to drill a hole to the precious investment and install a master volume pot kit instead of purchasing the
Pricey fryette attenuator?

 

[Philbert354]

So users prefer to drill a hole to the precious investment and install a master volume pot kit instead of purchasing the
Pricey fryette attenuator?

I did the mod without drilling. Completely reversible. And I didn’t like the sound or feel of the freyette.

 

[peterplexi]

I've never been able to figure out why so many people buy a 1987 or a 1959 and then put a master volume on it.

Once they do that it's no longer the amp it was when they got it. It will never, it can never, sound the same again.

The only way to change the output of those amps without changing their character entirely is with an attenuator.

If you want an amp with master volume, just buy one instead of butchering an old classic.
That's why Marshall made the 2203 and 2204. I like them better than 1987s and 1959s anyway.

IMNSFHO

YMMV

IME

OSISTM

Quite a few years ago I made the trip down to the home of George Metropolis in Michigan and he was kind enough to let me play his '68 Plexi with a variac down to 89 volts and an attenuator clicked down one notch from full out. It changed my life. What a gloriously regal tone. What an amazing sounding amp and it really was at a managable volume for full band use.

 

[peterplexi]

I did the mod without drilling. Completely reversible. And I didn’t like the sound or feel of the freyette.

The sound or feel of the Fryette is exactly the same as the amp....if you play it at the volume reamped.

 

[FleshOnGear]

Turn the master all the way up… at least the way I modded my amp, and it’s the exact same circuit.

The LarMar is functionally the same as stock 220k grid resistors when the MV is cranked. I still don’t prefer the tone of PPIMVs, though. It’s too bad you don’t like the Power Station. The post-power-amp effects loop is pretty amazing.

 

[dommarsh]

There are a few things to check on any older amp when compared to a "fresh" amp with plenty of vitality. Of course a 50 watter can't give the same big and brash response of a 100 watter, but check these first:
- power tubes - older tubes can function and test "ok", but I've had so many on my bench that test low in power in the amp thru a load and power tester (scope)
- preamp tubes - newer tubes like JJ can sound brighter and more exciting at first. However this may wear on you in the long run versus rich sounding vintage tubes (which may appear to sound duller at first comparison)
- fresh filter caps can be more efficient and transfer their energy better for less sag and more punch
- output resistances in the amp output stage - you need to get the best contact possible between the output transformer and the impedance selector switch and the output jacks. WIth the amp off and unplug, see if you can measure looking in with an ohmmeter thru the output jacks
- power tube bias
- speaker cable
- speaker resistance check - similar to output resistances, you want to make sure the best contact from the speaker jack to the speakers

 

[FleshOnGear]

- fresh filter caps can be more efficient and transfer their energy better for less sag and more punch

I have firsthand experience with this. When I first got my 1987 it had the original green Plessey capacitors. When you hit a note and the volume was above about 3 or 4 the amp just farted out, and would even cut out for half a second. It turned out the screen voltage was sagging so badly that the normal bias voltage was causing the output stage to cut off until the caps recharged. I put in a fresh set of F&Ts, and then the amp was perfect all the way up to 10 on the volume dial.

Strangely, when I got an ESR and LCR meter those old caps measured ok.

 

[tallcoolone]

Not

Both the Fryette Power Station and the Boss Waza TAE put out 100watts. They are the most transparent units out there. Again, pricey, but well worth it for the loop, and the line in and line out and in the case of the Boss Waza, killer studio effects, solo boost, headphone out (yes totally silent to the external world but raging 1959 goodness in the cans), midi control, usb interface, and a bunch more. I gigged with a 1959 slp w 2 4x12 cabs for years and I assure you, nothing scratches that itch like the Power Station or the TAE. In my case, the TAE is the one I use the most and has become the center of my rig. Best gear purchase I’ve made in years. My Marshalls are now totally usable in my home studio at any hour of the day or night. Bonus—both the Fryette and Boss units can take your favorite 1watt, 5watt, 8watt, 15watt, etc amp and re-amp it with 100watts. Simply killer. This is my report.

Yeah, the TAE is an absolute game changer. Nothing does what that thing does.