I wish I never learned about guitar speakers

[tonycaster]

don't have the DLS20CR, but after various attempts on speakers including Greenbacks, V30, G12h among others (and of course mixing 2 different types in a 2x12), I've ended up that my fav speakers are the G12M65 Creambacks, both in an open 1x12 and in a closed 2x12; for my taste, in a 4x12 my choice would be Greenbacks, no doubt about it. They are well balanced overall, the bass freq are clear enough, the midrange is punchy and high are clear and sweet enough. My 2 cents

 

[mark123]

... I need a 16 in the 40C ...

Why?

 

[Cedric]

This phenomenon is known as "Option Anxiety." When there are too many options, we're never satisfied with the ones we've taken. I love the sounds I have dialed in on my rig, yet I'm still constantly tweaking.

Maybe with a bit of "sunken cost", in that, you hang on to something because it was a pain to get, or you already have it, rather than get rid of it to get whatever it is you really want.

 

[jonnybrelliott]

Yu

one thing to keep in mind...

speakers are designed for specific enclosure types. For instance, some speakers rely on certain back pressure to get desired results, hence, why say, a G12-75 will sound great in an enclosed cab, like a 1960 cab, along w/ 3 other speakers, vs, playing the exact same speaker thrown in an open-air - open back cabinet.

Other speakers are made to not rely on back pressure & can work in a wider variety of enclosures, or even open-air design.

Open back cab's rely on tuning the cab to the wall/room. Still though many speakers, designed for specific back pressure will sound anemic, regardless of the tune, because the spider/cone will be flubby.

Another thing to consider w/ open back vs sealed cab, is that solid state have more control over the wave, & tubes give more of a raw wave to the speaker. This means that, the pressure of a sealed cab, helps keep the excursion contained, whereas the open back makes the raw power more radical, which makes the speaker more prone to farting & voice coil distortion.

Because the speaker is lacking the tight control in the bass frequencies, people tend to turn up the bass in open back cab's, furthering the negative effects.

While MartyStrat never came out w/ a study on it, he did mention that, that's why he preferred his Eminence speakers in his TSL combo amp's. The speakers, IIRC, some sort of Patriot & Cannabis Rex, because they were designed to work w/o the back pressure of an enclosed cab & filled in the void, left by typical Celestions used in closed cab's...

Yup, down with this - I think G12T75 and Vintage 30s sound great in closed cabs - and in the 1960 4 x 12. I very much dislike the way they sound in open-back cabinets. The earlier G12H Greenbacks and also the G12-65 were also designed for earlier 4 x 12, but also work very well in open back cabs. I've fitted the former into tour amps - AC30 type amps, and they've sounded great, likewise G12-65 into a Carlsbro 60 watt combo (Keith R is said to load his Fenders with them). There ye go, that's me putting down another 3c - so a combined nickel worth :-D

 

[Max Gahne]

I have four 1 X 12 cabinets I rotate my DSL20HR thru, one with a Greenback, one with a V30, one with an Eminence Governor and my very favorite I can't get enough of, a 12" Celestion Gold. That speaker is the bomb.

 

[lonewolfsx]

Just wait until you realize that the brand new G12T75 that you bought it likely a completely different speaker than the G12T75 you already owned in your 1960A, depending on how old your 1960A is.

V30’s seem to be just as bad, but I have had at least four different G12T75’s, all of them with different “T” codes, different construction, and therefore different sounds.

So add that to the decision paralysis - it’s not even different models of speakers, since within the same model there is a huge variation. Check out some of the YouTube videos comparing different year V30’s or G12T75’s for example.

For me personally, my solution was to look at the kind of music I play the most (80s rock) and then buy a real speaker from the 80s and use them. Nothing more authentic than the real thing, although I guess if you’re into 60s Marshall tones it might become cost prohibitive to do that (since 60s speakers in good condition are ridiculously expensive). If you’re not replicating a tone and just trying to find your sound… well good luck haha. Good thing new gear has return policies and used gear usually holds value well enough you don’t lose much to find out

 

[Deftone]

I can only offer sympathy as I have gone down the same path. It's expensive, time consuming and frustrating. And I just bought another pair of G12H-Anni's as the combination with V30's seems to work well for me.

So I had to go count....I have 26 12" Celestions and they are all V30's, G12H-Anni's and G12T-75's. Holy shit.

That said, the reward is huge. Finding the right combination is gold.

 

[Cal Nevari]

See, this is what kicks me right in the ol' Chicken McNuggets:

First of all, I hate playing the "buy it to try it" game, even if if there are good return polies. But I really amn't liking the Seventy/80 speaker in my DSL20CR, so something has to be done about it.

So I figure I'll stick with what I know and like, right? My 1960A cab is loaded with G12T-75's, and I've been liking them more than V30's, especially with the JCM 800 and a couple of DSL's. So I orders me up a G12T-75 from Amazon, toss it in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up, and it's... ok. ...it sounds better than the 70/80 ...but it does sound a little shrill and I've been tweaking the map for a half hour and I'm like, hmm. It's just "ok". Nothing special here.

So I hop on Celestion's website and YouTube, to research other speakers. I don't want to get into greenbacks and creambacks, and be sorting out all the "G, H, K... LMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ versions, I just want to get somewhere quick. So I order the V-Type. I've heard good things, good sound clips, and Celestion mentions them as "balanced, a mix of vinatge and modern, and being especially good for solos to cut through".

So I orders me up a V-Type, toss in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up and after about 20 minutes, I'm like YAY!!!! I really like the speaker, ya know? So then I go through the same thought patterns we all do, like "should I replace ALL of my map speakers with V-Types across the board?" - 'cause I'm pretty excited, right?

But then...

But then, I go back out to YouTube and have a few more listens, and I discover there's another version of the V-Type that's supposed to be EVEN BETTER?? It's called the "Neo V-Type", and it's got "clearer this and warmer that", blah, blah, blah. I saw what's his name demo'ing it, and it does seem to sound a little nicer. (Although that guy can get great tone from 6 slices of moldy cheese.)

This feels like when I saved up for a few years to finally buy my Gibson R9 flametop Historic, and then 6 months later, Gibson came out with the new R9 TRUE Historic, and I was like, "so what have I got now, a not-so-true inferior Historic DAMMIT?"

So NOW WTF am I supposed to do? I can't just keep buying and returning brand new speakers back and forth to Amazon and Celestion all year, it bothers my conscience, see? But I want the best.

Can any of you people console me? Tell me the "Neo" version really isn't as good as it seems to be? 'cause you know that's what I really want to hear, right? But I feel like I just gotta know so I can be done with it, and it's bugging the carp out of me already.

Thanks.

Sounds like you're prepared to go down the rabbit hole, my friend. My advice is, don't! I have no experience with any of the speakers you name, but I do know that comparison is the thief of joy. If you like your setup, stick with it. Chasing the perfect sound is a never-ending merry-go-round. Get off while you still can! Better yet, don't get on. Of course, I don't always follow my own advice.

 

[Vinsanitizer]

I spoke to a Celestion rep at a show in 2014 - as I was kicking off an extended journey into the dark murky bright underworld that is speakers - about the Neo speakers. He said the jazz guys really liked the glassy cleans, the rock guys not so much. So I crossed them off the possibles list leaving only 329 other speakers to explore. What improvements they've made to Neos since then I don't want to know...

So put down the youboob, pick up yo guitar and wail!

Russ

The answer I was looking for. I don't want no glassy cleans. I'm really liking the way the V-type sounds in the 20CR anyway, especially after today. I've played it, walked away, came back, walked away... and there's nothing I find unlikable about it.

Next move is, I'm ordering a VT Jr. for my DSL5R. I'll see how that goes.

Thanks everyone for your input, all great comments.

 

[Omeganaught]

Haha! I think most of us can relate. I really like the current V-type. I bought a SV212 cab that comes loaded with these to use with an SV20H mini-plexi and my 1977 2204. The cab sounds great! And the speakers smooth out a little upper-mid shrillness without compromising articulation or mid-range punch. They are really good speakers.

I was running the 2204 though a 2x12 diagonal cab loaded with mid 1980's G12T-75's. Those were OK, and while they may be less shrill than the current production ones, they still are a bit shrill. I was also playing through an old 1933 1x12 cab with a now-discontinued WGS 12" British Lead 80, which sounds pretty darn good.

In any case, having tried a fair number of various speakers, I really like the V-types with Marshall.

sometimes its not about having what you want but wanting what you have.

I believe Stephen Stills wrote a song along those lines ...

This phenomenon is known as "Option Anxiety." When there are too many options, we're never satisfied with the ones we've taken. I love the sounds I have dialed in on my rig, yet I'm still constantly tweaking.

Leo Tolstoy's essay, "How Much Land Does a Man Need?" addresses the issue. We could rewrite it as, "How Much Tone Does a Musician Need?" We keep fiddling and tweaking to the point we never take possession of and enjoy what we have.

 

[marcos69]

I could never find a single speaker I liked...so the solution was mix and match. I left 2 of the stock G12T-75's and swapped in 2 new greenbacks. This gives me the warmness of the greenbacks with the low end of the 75's. Liked it so much I did my other cab the same way.

 

[FleshOnGear]

…comparison is the thief of joy.

Ain’t that the truth. It’s tough with speakers, especially, because of how much they affect your tone.

 

[msgdp]

Once I played through Celestion Alnico Blue speakers I stopped looking.

 

[LPMarshall hack]

Ditch the combos. Play thru heads and cabs.


Hows that for advice!

 

[Vinsanitizer]

... And the speakers [V-Type] smooth out a little upper-mid shrillness without compromising articulation or mid-range punch. They are really good speakers.
...

^ This.

 

[Vinsanitizer]

Ditch the combos. Play thru heads and cabs.


Hows that for advice!

Because I already have a head and cab LPMarshall hack, AND I'M COLLECTING ALL THE DSL MAPS IN THE ENTIRE SERIES, DAMMIT!

 

[PowerTube44]

Back in 2007 I bought a Line 6 Vetta HD head (yeah, yeah, I know) and ran it across two Vetta 4x12 cabs I picked up used. The speaker emulations had the Celestion GT12-T75's and frankly, they were one of my least favorite speakers on the Vetta.

BUT... now that I own two ACTUAL 1960 cabs with T75's, I can't imagine anything sounding much better.

 

[Antmax]

Just stick an EQ pedal in the loop, adjust the tone to taste... <Ducks>

Honestly though, at home the difference is usually small enough that that is often all it takes. My ears change from day to day so what sounds great one day can be irritating the next. Don't know what it is. I usually just put it down to tube amps being temperamental.
I do think its worth changing the 70/80's though. I'm never happy with them and think Marshall should sometimes spend $5-50 more.

I really wanted to like the code 50 I bought but always felt they cut too many corners that could have been fixed if they didn't try and meet a rigid price gap. Having said that, the price went up $50 about 6 months after release so I don't know "Shrugs"

I have the DSL20HR with greenback clones and love it.

 

[TheLoudness!!]

The speaker thing is indeed a rabbit hole. I tried almost every Eminence they made at the time about 15 years ago. The descriptions would say "xxxx" is a replacement for the v30...etc etc.

But when comparing them, I found them to be vastly different. The Celestions always had more a top end spike or presence to them played through the exact same amp. This is neither good nor bad. It's a matter of preference.

One of my '90's 1960a slant cabs was loaded with Greenbacks and V30's. Now there is a sound I should have stuck with.

Then I heard about WGS. WGS was a lower cost alternative back then but now the basically cost the same as a Celestion. The lower price was a selling point to me. I did end up liking the ET65 a lot though.

I also went down the rabbit hole of swapping pickups. It really sucks to take the time to swap them out and find out that it is worse than what you started with!

 

[Sly Fox]

See, this is what kicks me right in the ol' Chicken McNuggets:

First of all, I hate playing the "buy it to try it" game, even if there are good return polies. But I really amn't liking the Seventy/80 speaker in my DSL20CR, so something has to be done about it.

So I figure I'll stick with what I know and like, right? My 1960A cab is loaded with G12T-75's, and I've been liking them more than V30's, especially with the JCM 800 and a couple of DSL's. So I orders me up a G12T-75 from Amazon, toss it in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up, and it's... ok. ...it sounds better than the 70/80 ...but it does sound a little shrill and I've been tweaking the map for a half hour and I'm like, hmm. It's just "ok". Nothing special here.

So I hop on Celestion's website and YouTube, to research other speakers. I don't want to get into greenbacks and creambacks, and be sorting out all the "G, H, K... LMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ versions, I just want to get somewhere quick. I've heard good things, good sound clips for the V-Type, and Celestion mentions them as "balanced, a mix of vinatge and modern, and being especially good for solos to cut through".

So I orders me up a V-Type from Amazon, toss in my DSL20CR from across the room (just kidding), fire it up and after about 20 minutes, I'm like YAY!!!! I really like the speaker, ya know? So then I go through the same thought patterns we all do, like "should I replace ALL of my map speakers with V-Types across the board?" - 'cause I'm pretty excited, right?

But then...

But then, I go back out to YouTube and have a few more listens, and I discover there's another version of the V-Type that's supposed to be EVEN BETTER?? It's called the "Neo V-Type", and it's got "clearer this and warmer that", blah, blah, blah. I saw what's his name demo'ing it, and it does seem to sound a little nicer. (Although that guy can get great tone from 6 slices of moldy cheese.)

This feels like when I saved up for a few years to finally buy my Gibson R9 flametop Historic, and then 6 months later, Gibson came out with the new R9 TRUE Historic, and I was like, "so what have I got now, a not-so-true inferior Historic DAMMIT?"

So NOW WTF am I supposed to do? I can't just keep buying and returning brand new speakers back and forth to Amazon and Celestion all year, it bothers my conscience, see? But I want the best.

Can any of you people console me? Tell me the "Neo" version really isn't as good as it seems to be? 'cause you know that's what I really want to hear, right? But I feel like I just gotta know so I can be done with it, and it's bugging the carp out of me already.

Thanks.

Hey brother, I can relate. I wanted to get back into electric guitar after a recent classical guitar exam and I've bought and returned several Gibson guitars...lost money having kept the last one beyond the return period...also bought, returned, traded, upgraded, rented and serviced a couple used amps while ultimately identifying some weird electrical problem in my home that also cost a lot of money not to mention the mental brain damage.

Long story short, you take your music and gear seriously and you have a keen idea what you're looking for and trying to find it. Some people spend tens of thousands of dollars and cars and motorcycles as their hobby...a few hundred dollars in speakers is not the end of the world. You should be content that you have an amp and guitar you like and that you're onto narrowing down a few speakers.

Here's something thats going to mess you up some more...try looking into the eminence texas heat! I recently swapped my greenback for one of these and it really tamed the high end and added a lot of meat to the tone.