Jcm 2000 dsl-100
- Thread starter maltone
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yeah? stock?
hmm.....man....i feel like an ass going through 3 DSL's though but.....i guess if i'm an ass i am an ass,lol.
my big thing is my triamp does what my DSL did but, i like it better for it's midi options. i wanted something that could DO hi gain in the marshall camp but, more classic.
TwinACStacks
Well-Known Member
ATTN. DIESECT . My old DSL, (the ORIGINAL one from Joey Mod thread), is up for sale/ Trade in the Classified section. Look for the posting By: DarthxTroy
I'm tempted to get it back myself, It's got all the bells and whistles from the first Post on that thread, ( Dagnall PLEXI OT, Lydian PT, Choke, ETC).
TWIN
bloosman1
Active Member
I got mine '04, it was an epiphany! No amp I have ever played comes close, and it's stock!
---J---
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Re: Jcm 2000 dsl-100 Frankie...
You're saying I should mod it? Funny, I found this site DSL100 | Modifications
Rich, the guy who owns the shop explains the step by step process of upgrading the OT. He also mentions that "the capacitance of the original bleed capacitor is 470 picofarads (pF). The owner of this amplifier had the cap. replaced with a 120 pF value."
Not sure why those values, or what it would sound like - he didn't really explain why, and why that value.
Frankie, as far as modding, were you referring to the OT? - Much thanks.
You're saying I should mod it? Funny, I found this site DSL100 | Modifications
Rich, the guy who owns the shop explains the step by step process of upgrading the OT. He also mentions that "the capacitance of the original bleed capacitor is 470 picofarads (pF). The owner of this amplifier had the cap. replaced with a 120 pF value."
Not sure why those values, or what it would sound like - he didn't really explain why, and why that value.
Frankie, as far as modding, were you referring to the OT? - Much thanks.
LOL.
Don't be dissin' the 2205 just yet my friend. My DSL100 is a beast for sure - and I have done some badass modding to it as well. But my '88 2205 is a Monster. If you were thinking about the 2205 for the Metal type stuff, you will be going in the right direction. The DSL's are still cheap, so get your 2205 when you can spend the $$.
I would say to go for an '86 to '90 model if you can. Tom Morello's 2210 was a 1987 model. So that and my '88 2205 is all I have to go by.
The 2205/2210 only needs a few minor tweaks, and a strategic valve placement and it is just Brutal.
Frankie, I did check out the workbench section for Joey's mods. I really don't know much about why people do those specific ones.
In my case, I'm just worried about longevity of the amp. I'm not really a high gain player at all. Most 100 watt owner would probably think I'm silly for wanting so much power. But, I actually love the tone of the amp with moderate volume and moderate gain - classic sounding with just a hint of grit.
I have a TV Jones classic plus pickup in the bridge, and when I played it the other day, it sounded so completely amazing. Tight, thick, yet detailed, warm. I'm not sure where Marshall went cheaper on the parts of this amp, so I'd like to know what mods people usually do for longevity, or to keep bias drift to a minimum (I read that somewhere in one of the Joey mods).
It's highly unlikely I'd ever use the Ultra Gain channel. I just loved the clean/crunch channnel. Even when I turned up the Master volume to 4 without the gain, I thought it sounded really good.
What do people do to beef up lower end parts on the amp? And which parts?
In my case, I'm just worried about longevity of the amp. I'm not really a high gain player at all. Most 100 watt owner would probably think I'm silly for wanting so much power. But, I actually love the tone of the amp with moderate volume and moderate gain - classic sounding with just a hint of grit.
I have a TV Jones classic plus pickup in the bridge, and when I played it the other day, it sounded so completely amazing. Tight, thick, yet detailed, warm. I'm not sure where Marshall went cheaper on the parts of this amp, so I'd like to know what mods people usually do for longevity, or to keep bias drift to a minimum (I read that somewhere in one of the Joey mods).
It's highly unlikely I'd ever use the Ultra Gain channel. I just loved the clean/crunch channnel. Even when I turned up the Master volume to 4 without the gain, I thought it sounded really good.
What do people do to beef up lower end parts on the amp? And which parts?
Adrian R
Well-Known Member
Maltone..
I'm glad you got the DSL working for ya. I too like the sound of the older Marshalls, i.e. JMP, Plexi..800 etc...and know exactly what sound you are trying to achieve. Its all about DEFINITION. I want to hear EVERY note in either an open chord or a bar chord. The older Marshalls deliver this in every suit. The DSL though can achieve the same vibe IF set up right.
Tubes and voltages are EVERYTHING with these amps.
Bias levels have to be nearly balls on for the amp to sound clear and tight. A variance of 1.5 mA or more and it just smears the tone!
I've experimented with 4 different current production power tubes..and the best I've heard so far were the JJ KT77s and the newer JJ 6CA7s. I did experiment with two different GT variants..one being the EL34M and then the EL34S. The 'Ms' sounded GREAT..but fried quickly..and were very difficult to stabalize from a bias standpoint. The 'S's sounded like total shit...thin and scratchy. Preamp tubes are important too..so far I have had the best luck with T/SOL..A7s in positions V1, 2 & 4..with a regular chinese tube in V3.
I'm glad you got the DSL working for ya. I too like the sound of the older Marshalls, i.e. JMP, Plexi..800 etc...and know exactly what sound you are trying to achieve. Its all about DEFINITION. I want to hear EVERY note in either an open chord or a bar chord. The older Marshalls deliver this in every suit. The DSL though can achieve the same vibe IF set up right.
Tubes and voltages are EVERYTHING with these amps.
Bias levels have to be nearly balls on for the amp to sound clear and tight. A variance of 1.5 mA or more and it just smears the tone!
I've experimented with 4 different current production power tubes..and the best I've heard so far were the JJ KT77s and the newer JJ 6CA7s. I did experiment with two different GT variants..one being the EL34M and then the EL34S. The 'Ms' sounded GREAT..but fried quickly..and were very difficult to stabalize from a bias standpoint. The 'S's sounded like total shit...thin and scratchy. Preamp tubes are important too..so far I have had the best luck with T/SOL..A7s in positions V1, 2 & 4..with a regular chinese tube in V3.
Adrian, I don't have the DSL 100... yet. I still have to sell a Fender to finance it. The tube types you mentioned is a bit over my head. I'm not sure what tubes were in the DSL I tried - I think they might have been Mesa EL34's. The salesman told me that if I get Mesa tubes biased one way, when I change the tubes later, if I use the same Mesa EL34's even new - I won't have to have it re-biased. Is that true?
To complicate things, a JCM 800 2210 came up for sale not far from me, for $1100.00 Canadian - a little less than the DSL 100. I like the idea of a much simpler amp for my tastes. And, although the 800 is from 1989, if something went wrong, it sure looks a lot simpler inside.
People will think I'm nuts, but when I played the DSL through my TV Jones pickup, I played the first E and G chord from "what do you do for money honey" off the Back in Black album, and it sounded just like the record. I think it could have been the room I was in... carpeted ceiling, walls, and floor. It had that punch, definition, clarity, and OOOF feeling in the chest - AMAZING! That's all I basically want, those tones, Malcolm's tone. His sound absolutely kills.
Last.. Do KT77's sound anything like EL34's? That's where my knowledge base ends. Thanks amigo.
To complicate things, a JCM 800 2210 came up for sale not far from me, for $1100.00 Canadian - a little less than the DSL 100. I like the idea of a much simpler amp for my tastes. And, although the 800 is from 1989, if something went wrong, it sure looks a lot simpler inside.
People will think I'm nuts, but when I played the DSL through my TV Jones pickup, I played the first E and G chord from "what do you do for money honey" off the Back in Black album, and it sounded just like the record. I think it could have been the room I was in... carpeted ceiling, walls, and floor. It had that punch, definition, clarity, and OOOF feeling in the chest - AMAZING! That's all I basically want, those tones, Malcolm's tone. His sound absolutely kills.
Last.. Do KT77's sound anything like EL34's? That's where my knowledge base ends. Thanks amigo.
By beef up the lower end parts do you mean tighten the bass or you mean fix things prone to failure? In the Joey Mods thread there's a section on, "Mods you should do," those are all the ones to fix any instability in the amp.
My only Gretsch with TV's in it got stolen a while back. I sure do miss that TV + Marshall sound.
In fact, I think our boy Dino from Throw Rag plays TV's into a DSL if I'm not mistaken, and his tone is delicious. You should try the ultra gain channel on Lead 1 with the gain rolled way back for leads. It's really honky tonk sounding with the right guitar, and it sounds like you're there already.
My only Gretsch with TV's in it got stolen a while back. I sure do miss that TV + Marshall sound.
In fact, I think our boy Dino from Throw Rag plays TV's into a DSL if I'm not mistaken, and his tone is delicious. You should try the ultra gain channel on Lead 1 with the gain rolled way back for leads. It's really honky tonk sounding with the right guitar, and it sounds like you're there already.
That SUCKS about getting your Gretsch stolen. Yeah, I love mine. I only bought one because a friend loaned me his black duo jet, and I fell in love with it.
With regards to mods... Yes, to both of your questions. To firm up the bass - not that I found it loose in the DSL 100 - it sounded quite firm to me, but maybe others who own the amp want it even more firm.
Yes, definitely to the 2nd question. Whatever parts are prone to weakening or "could be better", etc. I'm more concerned with keeping the sound exactly as I heard it the other day, and not having to worry about parts failing, or losing the tone that's already there because of something weird going on. I'd definitely consider an OT upgrade, whatever will enhance or maximize the sound I heard through the clean/crunch channel. I still can't get over that sound.
It would be really nice if Marshall offered the same amp without the other red/gain channel. Give me the same amp, just clean/crunch, and that's it. I don't/can't play lead anyway, so I'm not into hairy, searing lead tones. I can appreciate them from afar - but can't play them.
Adrian R
Well-Known Member
The salesman told me that if I get Mesa tubes biased one way, when I change the tubes later, if I use the same Mesa EL34's even new - I won't have to have it re-biased. Is that true?
Maltone, simply put; no. Every tube has a slightly different voltage rating even within the same brand and model. Some tube vendors out there (like Tube Depot) match tubes to specific numbers based on their voltage ratings. They list these numbers on the tube (matched pair/quad) so that when you need new tubes they can supply you with tubes with the same numbers assuming they have some that fall in the voltage category that you require. Either way, its always a very sound practice to check bias and rebias if necessary whenever you install new power tubes to ensure that they are in spec. with respect to your specific amp's plate voltage. (every amp is somewhat unique). Out of bias amps sound like shit, especially the DSL!
Last.. Do KT77's sound anything like EL34's? That's where my knowledge base ends. Thanks amigo.[/QUOTE]
A KT-77 is an EL-34 with a military designation rating(KT-77). It differs slightly in construction, but are for the most part is a drop in replacement to most EL-34 applications. The KT-77 imo compared to other EL-34s that I HAVE experienced (i.e. current production JJ, GT, and T/Sol EL-34s) sound warmer with a slightly thicker bass response and a more complex upper midrange characteristic.
Maltone, simply put; no. Every tube has a slightly different voltage rating even within the same brand and model. Some tube vendors out there (like Tube Depot) match tubes to specific numbers based on their voltage ratings. They list these numbers on the tube (matched pair/quad) so that when you need new tubes they can supply you with tubes with the same numbers assuming they have some that fall in the voltage category that you require. Either way, its always a very sound practice to check bias and rebias if necessary whenever you install new power tubes to ensure that they are in spec. with respect to your specific amp's plate voltage. (every amp is somewhat unique). Out of bias amps sound like shit, especially the DSL!
Last.. Do KT77's sound anything like EL34's? That's where my knowledge base ends. Thanks amigo.[/QUOTE]
A KT-77 is an EL-34 with a military designation rating(KT-77). It differs slightly in construction, but are for the most part is a drop in replacement to most EL-34 applications. The KT-77 imo compared to other EL-34s that I HAVE experienced (i.e. current production JJ, GT, and T/Sol EL-34s) sound warmer with a slightly thicker bass response and a more complex upper midrange characteristic.
I am thinking you are paying a bit too much, A Touch Too Much for that DSL100 if it is $1100 Canadian. Even that price for a 2210 seems a bit high.
But stick with the DSL100. The 2210 would be a better buy if you are going to pay the same price on both amps. But if you are searching for Malcolm's tone, the 2210 is not the way to go. The 2210/2205 models are excellent for lead guitar. My '88 2205 is my favorite amp to play lead on without no pedals boosting it - just guitar to amp and you have plenty of sustain.
The tone on the rhythm guitar tracks to "For Those About To Rock" and "Walk All Over You" are among my favorite of all time. And I can hear those tones in my DSL100. And with the 100 watter you have that extra bit more headroom that will get you closer to Malcolm's tone as well.
I should have added that, if you can check out that 2210 and plug into it and such, give it a try. The Boost channel on these amps sounds best with the Gain set to least at least 6. But you can try running it with the Master Volume high, and run the Boost channel Volume anywhere from 6 to 10, then start with the Boost channel Gain set low and try to dial in that sound you like from there.
The Reverb on these amps is actually good. And they switch channels well without latency and glitching. You can try dialing in your tone on the Clean channel similar to what I described above, but the Clean channel does not have a Midrange control - and is voiced heavy in the Mids to begin with. So that channel is a bit tougher to get a good clean tone. And it also helps to run a lower gain tube in V2 which is for the Clean channel only as well.
The Reverb on these amps is actually good. And they switch channels well without latency and glitching. You can try dialing in your tone on the Clean channel similar to what I described above, but the Clean channel does not have a Midrange control - and is voiced heavy in the Mids to begin with. So that channel is a bit tougher to get a good clean tone. And it also helps to run a lower gain tube in V2 which is for the Clean channel only as well.
Ricky, that's awesome - and gives me more confidence in the amp choice. Hmmm.... I never told you how much "they" want for the used 2007 DSL 100. It's a used head that the music store has been renting out. I think they owned it, not an individual person.
I don't know how many times it was rented out, but they have the entire history, they can tell me how many times, if any repairs were ever made - it's all on record.
They're asking $1375.00 for the DSL + taxes, which works out to 1500.00 and some change.
I don't know how many times it was rented out, but they have the entire history, they can tell me how many times, if any repairs were ever made - it's all on record.
They're asking $1375.00 for the DSL + taxes, which works out to 1500.00 and some change.
Ricky, below you were talking entirely about the 2210 correct? I just liked the idea of a simpler amp. All I really want out of the DSL 100 is the clean crunch channel, and that's it. I did like how the eq was very balanced for the clean/crunch channel. I could dial out a lot of things, etc.
Walk All Over You... yep. That album's sound overall is just.....GENIUS. I also love the tone on Riff Raff from the Powerage album. Killer.
Walk All Over You... yep. That album's sound overall is just.....GENIUS. I also love the tone on Riff Raff from the Powerage album. Killer.
Adrian, thanks for the tube explanation. I'm not going to overwhelm myself with too much, "what if" etc. I loved the tone I heard on the DSL's clean/crunch channel through my pickup and those GT12-75's. That did it for me.
I think I'll just start there, and if in the future you or someone can recommend a mod or improvement in stability or longevity of the amp, I'm all ears.
I just really like what I heard the other day. It wasn't even opened up, and I was in awe of the sound. Clean channel all by itself on 3 sounded fantastic, with the gain at 2-3, I was instantly sold. The chords were HUGE, tight, extremely articulated, but not piercing or bright to point of being painful.
The room had a lot to do with it. So, when I get this amp, I'm going to start sectioning off a part of my basement with soundproofing materials, under-padding for the floor, and carpet tile. This amp sounded SOOO good in that room they had. WOW
I think I'll just start there, and if in the future you or someone can recommend a mod or improvement in stability or longevity of the amp, I'm all ears.
I just really like what I heard the other day. It wasn't even opened up, and I was in awe of the sound. Clean channel all by itself on 3 sounded fantastic, with the gain at 2-3, I was instantly sold. The chords were HUGE, tight, extremely articulated, but not piercing or bright to point of being painful.
The room had a lot to do with it. So, when I get this amp, I'm going to start sectioning off a part of my basement with soundproofing materials, under-padding for the floor, and carpet tile. This amp sounded SOOO good in that room they had. WOW
Yeah, getting my Annie stolen was a horrible thing. One day I'll replace it with a 6120 maybe, who knows, but right now the only thing I have with Filter'Trons in it is my Corvette, and those are some special Gretsch high output ones that are pretty bad ass. I think they called 'em Mega'Trons.
The Joey Mods also tighten up the bass, or at least they did in mine. The mods for the green channel take out some of that boominess it has. Now mine's nice and tight sounding. There's also a mod for a clean/crunch footswitch instead of the channels.
For a single channel DSL you really should just have a JCM 800. My green channel sounds a lot like my JCM 800.
The Joey Mods also tighten up the bass, or at least they did in mine. The mods for the green channel take out some of that boominess it has. Now mine's nice and tight sounding. There's also a mod for a clean/crunch footswitch instead of the channels.
For a single channel DSL you really should just have a JCM 800. My green channel sounds a lot like my JCM 800.
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