Jimmy Page’s Heartbreaker Tone Details

[danfrank]

Am I missing something here? Was the Rickenbacker a solid state? How can the bias be off or was it a solid state pre and tube power? I'm no tech and have a minimal understanding of the inner workings of an amp but I thought bias only applied to tubes.

Solid state amps need to be biased like tube amps also, but since output transistors don't need to be changed regularly like tubes, biasing a solid state amp is a "set and forget" adjustment. IMO, the story that the Transonic amp used in the song was biased way "too hot" is BS, because that's the surest way to blow the output transistors in a SS amp. SS amps tend to go into thermal runaway quite easily if overbiased.

Rickenbacker Transonic | Vintage Guitar® magazine

From this article, the Rickenbacker Transonic were of solid state design throughout but were capacitively and non-direct coupled instead of being directly coupled like most SS amps of the time, so the circuit worked the way a tube amp circuit works. That’s where the warmth and the tone came from, and that’s why so many big groups liked them. They also used Schumacher (Fender) transformers.

You are correct, most early SS amps were capacitively coupled to the speaker using a LARGE electrolytic capacitor; this was to block DC from reaching the speaker. It was done this way early on before bipolar power supplies were commonly used to power SS amps. Acoustic amps also used this type of circuitry. I never understood why bass players cream over their Acoustic amps because, quite frankly, they're complete CRAP. Using a capacitor to couple to the speaker is really bad design. And no, this doesn't make a capacitively coupled SS amp work or act the way a tube amp does. The capacitor was a necessity for early solid state technology.
There's a lot of misinformation in the VG article... I think people's memories get fuzzy when a lot of time passes.

 

[Hogie34]

Solid state amps need to be biased like tube amps also, but since output transistors don't need to be changed regularly like tubes, biasing a solid state amp is a "set and forget" adjustment. IMO, the story that the Transonic amp used in the song was biased way "too hot" is BS, because that's the surest way to blow the output transistors in a SS amp. SS amps tend to go into thermal runaway quite easily if overbiased.



You are correct, most early SS amps were capacitively coupled to the speaker using a LARGE electrolytic capacitor; this was to block DC from reaching the speaker. It was done this way early on before bipolar power supplies were commonly used to power SS amps. Acoustic amps also used this type of circuitry. I never understood why bass players cream over their Acoustic amps because, quite frankly, they're complete CRAP. Using a capacitor to couple to the speaker is really bad design. And no, this doesn't make a capacitively coupled SS amp work or act the way a tube amp does. The capacitor was a necessity for early solid state technology.
There's a lot of misinformation in the VG article... I think people's memories get fuzzy when a lot of time passes.

Awesome, thanks for the lesson Dan!

 

[Jakeboy]

This is funny. It has been documented for a long time that Heartbreaker was an LP through a Vox hybrid amp (the Beatles amp that the Lemon Drop replicates) ...until the second half of his solo where the tone DRAMATICALLY changes.. , that is Page’s first recorded LP into a Marshall.

All that said, I find a treble booster into a tweed or a decent tube amp will replicate the main HB tone quite nicely. You need the treble... the solo piece where the Marshall enters really needs that thick Marshall tone....

 

[mtm105]

I am more confused now than when I posted thread...

 

[Kiko]

I forgot where I read, but it said that Black Dog and/or Rock & Roll (I forgot which) is actually TERRIBLE tone. I imagine that we are so familiar with it we just consider it great.

It is more a case of the sum of everything that made it great.

 

[kustombob]

Who cares its history now. Make your own tone. Nothing worst than copycats. Also their always the idiot here that says the greats were not technical good players. Music is not about perfection' but just simple feelgood. Thats why their is no good music anymore. No one knows how to write a good 3 min song that will still be played 30 years from now like Beatle or CCR song.

 

[jlinde1973]

I can almost guarentee there was no Marshall used in the studio. He has been known for using small tube combos such as the Supro and Silvertones as we all know for that fat raw midrange. Also he used a tonebender and wah for solo boosts. Ive read in interviews he said to have always left the tonebender on. I can get convincinly close to his tone by using a Silvertone 1482 with a germanium treble booster and a wah pedal for solo boost. Also read in his interviews that on Blackdog and other songs he plugged direct into board and also the combo amp then blended them together when mixed.

 

[SmokeyDopey]

Black Dog was actually guitar plugged into a couple compressors daisy chained. Probably 1176's.