JVM 410 vs JCM 800 2205 (1988)

[Phoenix Guitar]

I'm still reading through the replies here. For now I'll mention that I had a 2205 and 2210 which I used throughout the mid 90s. They were good amps for sure, but I eventually got tired of doctoring the EQ between the useless "Normal" channel and the Boost channel. Back in the day it was common opinion that the Normal channel was practically useles on its own, due to lack of gain and EQ. They were viewed as one-trick-ponies, and when I sold them I was lucky to get $250 and $350 respectively. Now the Boost channel is very good - sometimes excellent. But they used diode clipping and there was always a fizz in the top end that you couldn't dial out without an outboard EQ. Master volume amps of that period lacked the same type of dynamics that the older NMV's had when rolling down the guitar's volume knob. The FX loop was ok. I was constantly fiddling with it trying to dial in the right amount of mids, treble and presence the 4 years I owned them. I eventually sold them and bought the Peavey Classic 50 head, which was THE amp to compete with Marshalls of the time. The Peavey had not that Marshall mystique, but as I recall it was a much better amp and required no outboard EQ'ing or tweaking. Today I feel that those 2205/2210 amps are overhyped because they were the last good Marshall and started off being easy to obtain by the early 2000's. They were not PTP, but they were all-tube, the pots and tubes were all chassis mounted - the pots were the original type, not those teeny square things they put on PCB's today. There were no processors or gimmicks. The reverb was a real spring. They were built tough and could take abuse. My opinion is that, compared to today's tones and features, the true value of a mint used 800 is around $600. For not much more than that you can get better amps today.

Take this all wif a grain of salt, YMMV.

Totally agree, these amps are going for over $1200 on ebay or used Guitar Center. I have one but use my TSL60 at gigs. I picked up one for $450 on craigslist, I get the 800 tone out of crunch channel with mild OD and have real nice clean clean and solo channel if needed.

When I play with the 800 and feels little better, great for 80"s metal!!! but limited and want to keep it safe, maybe I could get $2000 for it in 5 years LOL

The 800 series is one of my all time favorites, but for $ you can get a good gigging amp for $500 that will come close.

Someone mentioned how stiff feeling the JVM's are. I could not agree with you more. They are great amps though. JVM410H for over $2000 vs used TSL or DSL $500 no brainer.

 

[bdubbs]

Yeah, I understand the Crunch channels on the JVM are supposed to be based on the 2203, but I thought the 2205/2210 was Marshall's try at a hot-rodded 2203 anyway. That's why Crunch Red sounds the most like my 2205 on the JVM.

I've never had a chance to try a 2203/2204, but judging from youtube videos, I can tell it probably has even more crunch and vintage feel/dynamics than the 2205/2210, but less gain.

The 2203/2204 definitely is the next amp I want to bring home and try against my 2205. From what I've heard though, most players tend to like the extra gain of the 2205/2210 (even if it comes from diodes), because you can get the extra needed gain at lower volume levels.

Just a note that I used to have a Blackstar HT 100 that was high-gain, and I had the same problem with its crunch channels. They just had no crunch. When I got the JVM at least it gave me more of that Marshall crunch, but not the same level of balls and bite crunch like a true JCM 800. I guess it's just the nature of high gain amps. I've learned now it's better to get a more vintage-style amp and boost it with an OD for the higher gain.

I'm REALLY glad we experienced the same thing with the blackstar. I still have my HT-100. It doesn't hit you at all. Sounds pretty good, but no bite or in your face presense. I got the JVM because of this. Crunch red with gain dimed is awesome! I used to use that as my main sound with resonence and presense really low.

 

[Phoenix Guitar]

Resurrecting my old thread because I still have both amps After more experience with them, my thoughts pretty much remain the same. I just love the tone, feel, and dynamics of my 2205 better than my JVM.

The JVM is a great amp, and in the beginning I really fell for OD1 orange just like everyone else. I still it use it for direct recording and bedroom volume playing. However, once I got my 2205 it was game over. I just realized after playing them side by side for long is that they are just two completely different amps for different things. JVM is meant to compete with high-gain amps and the modern metal territory, and hence there is a ton of compression there and it doesn't do those mid-gain crunch tones very well and loses a lot of touch sensitivity and dynamics. I still do love playing JVM OD1, but only when I'm really playing some real heavy stuff.

I find if I want to emulate my 2205 as best as I can with the JVM, I have to use Crunch Red with my Boss SD-1 overdrive pedal. This makes complete logical sense because that channel is supposed to be hot-rodded JCM 800 just like the 2205. There is less compression there than OD1 and gives more of that vintage 80's sound. Just wish these crunch channels had more crunch to them as they're missing that extra crunch and bite.

Be interesting to hear the JVM 410JS because it seems Joe had the same thoughts and suggestions about the stock JVM - need less compression on OD channels, and more crunch to the crunch channels. Can't wait to try one and see if it replaces my stock JVM.

This isn't meant to bash the JVM, I do love it even if I prefer the 2205. And for those of us who cut our teeth on 80's rock and metal, it's probably the only sound in our heads when we think of tone. I realize many younger players think these tones are out-of-date and cheesy and go for the modern high-gain stuff. I'm sure I thought that way about classic 70's rock when I was a teenager in the mid-80's But I've learned that tone and dynamics are the most important aspect of playing guitar.

Well Said!

 

[richieG]

I can't comment on a comparison, but I have a 2210 and it is a fine fine amp.

The 2203 is almost the holy grail of Marshall amps, but the 2205s and 2210s are not a long way from them at all.

Have a listen to David's clips ( user: newrelegion) and see what he pulls from a 2205, it is really awesome

Me personally if I had to choose, I would go the 2205....mainly cause they are easy to service and repair ( dont underestimate the value of this when you are gigging) the clean channel is pretty good, the crunch channel is awesome. Add an EQ pedal and some sorta OD boost, and you will get a quasi 4 channel amp. But as mentioned if you could somehow keep both that would really cool.

 

[1337storm]

I played a 2205 for a long time...late eighties to mid nineties, so I know that one.
I have a JVM410 which I have owned since their release and tried a number of mods on, but never got it all the way, still have it though.
I now have a JVM JS and for me that's a much better solution, it's not as stiff, more dynamics, more responsive, a much better crunch channel, and on and on...and still got all the versetility
I think that the JS version is what the original JVM should have been from the beginning...but then again, thats my personal opinion.

 

[plexilespaul]

i thought i liked the jvm's until last show the sound man didn't want to hook up my jcm 800's cause it was a four band metal show and it would have been much of a hassle....so....i pluged to the jvm for the first time live and it got burried in the mix and couldn't feel the tone like i do with my jcm 800's...i had the 2205 and sold it to the other guitarist in my band and i regret it to this day. i am not bashing the jvm cause comparing it to other modern amps it's really good but it's a diff animal than a jcm 800.

 

[supershifter2]

i just bought 2 JCM800 2205 heads. a 1988 and a 1989 year. both are stock and have EL34. heres the 1988.