JVM 410 vs JCM 800 2205 (1988)

[Australian]

Thats my experience and my opinion. Some people like chocolate and some like vanilla and it will always be that way. I think that it would be hard to compare a 2205 and a jvm. It would be like comparing an old muscle car naturally aspirated to a modern day sports car fuel injected. Both have there good and bad...

I agree with that.
Some days I like chocolate some days vanilla. Some days gelati some days dairy cup. Some days double cone, some days single cone. Some days pistachio, some days half lemon/chocolate.........and no one will complain about that.

So why does someone complain when you play a different amp than they do?
It beats me.

 

[spacerocker]

I love the 2205/10 no secret there. I have never played through a JVM. I own a VM and have owned a dsl 100. Since getting a DR and a mkIII my VM is up for sale. I was instantly drawn to the 2205 and mkIII. The DR took some tweaking and some mods but its a keeper now too. The two more modern marshalls took lots of tweaking and still never quite got the tone I was after. My experience had been that the older amps sound better. Thats my experience and my opinion. Some people like chocolate and some like vanilla and it will always be that way. I think that it would be hard to compare a 2205 and a jvm. It would be like comparing an old muscle car naturally aspirated to a modern day sports car fuel injected. Both have there good and bad...

I also think some older amps (and maybe the VM too?) sound better than the (stock) JVM.

But they have one or two massive disadvantages - they are largely single channel amps, so need some sort of boost or pedal to get a lead tone (which doesn't ususally give much volume boost anyway, as the amp is saturated) Plus, if you want a true clean channel - forget it!

They often do not have built in reverb, and not all have effects loops. It should not be underestimated how great it is to be able to switch channels live!



I think the JVM was built to address all these problems, and to compete head-on in the "hard-metal" market (which it does very well). The trouble is, this lead to a compromise in "vintage feel" and dynamics! Marshall should have produced two versions of the JVM - a Metal monster, and a more classic sounding version.


With my modded JVM, I beleive I have created the latter! - a modern amp with modern features, but capable of classic sounds (as good as the originals) together with all the more modern and clean sounds!

Maybe the new Joe Satriani Signature model will be closer to the sort of vibe I was looking for in the first place?

 

[PuroMojo]

I was planning to get a JVM in the near future, but this tread makes me want to try a 2210 first

 

[LKrevival]

I was planning to get a JVM in the near future, but this tread makes me want to try a 2210 first

Don't discount a 2205, it is a loud amp that will scream. Whenever I played with a band I never had to put the master volume past two or maybe three, I had the boost volume and gain at ten though. It is a very dial sensitive amp with even the reverb dial effecting the tone dramatically.

Had the normal channel been developed better it would have been a great two channel amp.

 

[MonstersOfTheMidway]

 

[HoboMan]

Thanks for the reply guys.

I guess even in the 80's, most of the big guns were using modded JCM 800's of some sort. I'm not sure about the late 80's when you started getting into those ones that had a lot of gain already like my 2205.

So it's not unreasonable to think that stock JVMs today would be modded to everyone's liking. I just don't want to spend any more money than I want to right now on one amp when I prefer the sound of the other, and I really can't afford to have two heads at the moment.

I'm very happy with the tone of the 2205, it's exactly what I've always wanted (to my ears anyway, I'm an 80's metal guy at heart). The JVM comes close for sure, but once I actually played them side-by-side I could really tell the difference then. The gain is awesome on the JVM, but nothing seems to beat that old Boss SD-1 into a JCM 800

If I played more variety of music, then maybe the versatility and features of the JVM would win.

At this point, I just want to spend any extra money I have to get my 2205 cleaned up by a tech, it's very dusty inside, tubes look old, and the reverb doesn't seem to be working, but man does it sounds great.

I've owned my 4210 (combo version of the 2205) for over 16 years and still gig with it regularly.
I had it completely gone through by a tech last year. Just an all around KILLER amp.

If you're happy with the sound of your 2205 now, just wait until a good tech goes through it.

If you sold the 2205 you will never be happy with the other amp. You'll constantly be trying to get the 2205 tone out of it and it just won't happen.
I'm speaking from experience here. I sold my 4210 a couple of years ago and immediately realized how big of a mistake I made.
A couple of months later I contacted the buyer to see if he wanted to sell it back and it turned out that he had a property tax bill due and needed money right away. I got my amp back.

Sell the JVM, get the 2205 serviced and you'll be one happy guy.

 

[big dooley]

true, getting a 2205 out of the JVM is tough... and vice versa...
i'd recommend to keep em both... maybe even combine them... i did the same with the JVM and the AFD... it's just great

 

[DenverRob]

This thread is very interesting to me, since I'm trying to figure out which Marshall to buy for my first, and I definitely want the old 70's-80's classic Marshall sound. I'm waiting to sync up with a guy who's selling an 80's JCM800 50W 2204 head. And thinking hard about buying a Vintage Modern 2266 or a JVM 205 with a 4x12; leaning towards the 2266.

Since I don't own a Marshall yet, I'm not qualified to give you advice, but I'll say it anyway-- go with your ears, go with your passion, and it sounds like the old one is what you're really passionate about. After reading this I'm really chomping at the bit to try that used JCM800.

The post about the mods of the modern amp to improve the sound was fascinating also. This forum is great, I've learned so much in the last week.

OK time to push away from the computer and pick up a guitar and play!

-Rob

 

[LKrevival]

Had my 2205 had a better clean "normal" channel where I could have added a overdrive pedal to the clean channel for rock blues styles plus clean if I want while keeping the boost channel for rocking out and if it had a new style effects loop like the JVM it might still be my main amp.

 

[nkay]

Resurrecting my old thread because I still have both amps After more experience with them, my thoughts pretty much remain the same. I just love the tone, feel, and dynamics of my 2205 better than my JVM.

The JVM is a great amp, and in the beginning I really fell for OD1 orange just like everyone else. I still it use it for direct recording and bedroom volume playing. However, once I got my 2205 it was game over. I just realized after playing them side by side for long is that they are just two completely different amps for different things. JVM is meant to compete with high-gain amps and the modern metal territory, and hence there is a ton of compression there and it doesn't do those mid-gain crunch tones very well and loses a lot of touch sensitivity and dynamics. I still do love playing JVM OD1, but only when I'm really playing some real heavy stuff.

I find if I want to emulate my 2205 as best as I can with the JVM, I have to use Crunch Red with my Boss SD-1 overdrive pedal. This makes complete logical sense because that channel is supposed to be hot-rodded JCM 800 just like the 2205. There is less compression there than OD1 and gives more of that vintage 80's sound. Just wish these crunch channels had more crunch to them as they're missing that extra crunch and bite.

Be interesting to hear the JVM 410JS because it seems Joe had the same thoughts and suggestions about the stock JVM - need less compression on OD channels, and more crunch to the crunch channels. Can't wait to try one and see if it replaces my stock JVM.

This isn't meant to bash the JVM, I do love it even if I prefer the 2205. And for those of us who cut our teeth on 80's rock and metal, it's probably the only sound in our heads when we think of tone. I realize many younger players think these tones are out-of-date and cheesy and go for the modern high-gain stuff. I'm sure I thought that way about classic 70's rock when I was a teenager in the mid-80's But I've learned that tone and dynamics are the most important aspect of playing guitar.

 

[medicjg]

I completely understand where your coming from. I think some guys will probably give you some grief comparing the 2205 to a hot rodded 800. Most folks seem to consider a hot rodded 800 as being a modded 2203/4 circuit which has been pointed out as not being the same. In terms of gain the 2205 is hot rodded compared to the mkII. The split channel 800s are really a breed of their own and I think thats the reason the growing number of us who love them hold them in the high regard that we do. Personally I love the sound of the 2203/4 amps but the volume that you have to get them to sound good is just too insanely loud for me. I used to like attenuators until I had one with true bypass and realized that they really adversely affect the tone IMO. In comparison to other amps you really hit the nail on the head. There is something about the feel of the splitter that is just not present with the others. Its really undefinable but when you stray from the split channel and come back to it. It really feels like your old hooded sweat shirt warm and at home. Its really nice to hear about other guys that feel the same way and appreciate the amp. Its a bond that really is strengthened by getting out and playing through other rigs.

 

[nkay]

Yeah, I understand the Crunch channels on the JVM are supposed to be based on the 2203, but I thought the 2205/2210 was Marshall's try at a hot-rodded 2203 anyway. That's why Crunch Red sounds the most like my 2205 on the JVM.

I've never had a chance to try a 2203/2204, but judging from youtube videos, I can tell it probably has even more crunch and vintage feel/dynamics than the 2205/2210, but less gain.

The 2203/2204 definitely is the next amp I want to bring home and try against my 2205. From what I've heard though, most players tend to like the extra gain of the 2205/2210 (even if it comes from diodes), because you can get the extra needed gain at lower volume levels.

Just a note that I used to have a Blackstar HT 100 that was high-gain, and I had the same problem with its crunch channels. They just had no crunch. When I got the JVM at least it gave me more of that Marshall crunch, but not the same level of balls and bite crunch like a true JCM 800. I guess it's just the nature of high gain amps. I've learned now it's better to get a more vintage-style amp and boost it with an OD for the higher gain.

I completely understand where your coming from. I think some guys will probably give you some grief comparing the 2205 to a hot rodded 800. Most folks seem to consider a hot rodded 800 as being a modded 2203/4 circuit which has been pointed out as not being the same.

 

[spacerocker]

The JVM is a great amp, and in the beginning I really fell for OD1 orange just like everyone else. I still it use it for direct recording and bedroom volume playing. However, once I got my 2205 it was game over. I just realized after playing them side by side for long is that they are just two completely different amps for different things. JVM is meant to compete with high-gain amps and the modern metal territory, and hence there is a ton of compression there and it doesn't do those mid-gain crunch tones very well and loses a lot of touch sensitivity and dynamics. I still do love playing JVM OD1, but only when I'm really playing some real heavy stuff.

I don't disagree with any of the above, but just be aware that the JVM can be transformed by a few simple mods (see my tag-line). For example, there is a simple resistor value change that removes most of the compression from the OD channels, and opens up the amp considerably! You don't even need to remove the cicuit board - just solder an approprite value resistor in parallel with the one that is already there!

I'm sure the JS amp will be a lot more dynamic than the stock JVM, but you can mod the JVM for much less than the cost of a new JS!

Also, don't forget that the JVM circuit is based on a 2203 circuit, it's just that a few things have been added, and the power section tightened up. It is easy to undo most of these changes, so that you end up with a 2203 + extras, rather than a JVM410

 

[fstrat59slp]

Damn after watching all these vids on youtube of the jvm, I want this amp in a bad way lol. It would go nicely with the 59slp and the dsl.

 

[fstrat59slp]

Just from the little I've payed attention to these amps, I wouldn't sell my jvm to keep the jcm 800.

 

[nkay]

I never did sell anything, I have the best of both worlds and kept both amps

I love the JVM for the high gain stuff (and the occasional clean), but I prefer my JCM 800 for the mid and high-but-not-that-high-gain hard rock/metal.

 

[fstrat59slp]

Glad ya could keep them both man, thats awesome.

 

[nkay]

Ok, well I just had my mind and ears blown by this thread on the JVM forum about comparing the 2205 and JVM and how to get the same sound with a little EQ in the loop while on OD1 Green. The sound clips are pretty identical, and I actually liked the JVM's tone a little better than the 800. The difference was on the JVM you could do that at low volume.

JVM Forum • View topic - I have a 410h. Do I need a 2205?

I'll have to give this is a try because I had a hard time getting close before. In the end I think it's my preconceived notions of voicings in my head that make me used to the 800 sound.

I guarantee you 20 years from now, people will be modding amps to get that "JVM OD1 sound". I just love that channel.

 

[Phoenix Guitar]

JVM's are great amps! If pure 800 tone is what you're after then get the JCM 800. I like the 2 channel cause I needed a clean and do like the OD channel better than the 2203.

Both JVM and JCM are very good. I prefer the JCM 800 cause it is the JCM 800. Seems to have a warmer more open tone vs modern marshall. Maybe cause JCM 800 was my first. I rented different 800's back in the 80's and personally liked the JCM 800 2205 when I had the money to buy one.

The JVM owners manual states its modeled after the JCM 800 both normal and Hot Rodded. I would rather have the real thing. Can't understand all the JVM modification threads? Why? They are new and sound great. Only mods I would do with a marshall are Tubes when needed. Save money for Guitars or amplifier repairs.

I do like the versatility of the JCM 2000's and JVM's but I am very happy with my 1990 JCM 800 2205. I can boost the loop for solo with EQ pedal and put a OD pedal in front for options. I actually like a clean channel , it's kinda dirty which works great thru PA. Don't need the Midi stuff or the multi channel. But if you need the extra's JVM is the way to go. Stay clear of the JCM 2000's. They are good amps but JVM line is improved.

IMO

Marshall's all ROCK!

 

[Vinsanitizer]

I'm still reading through the replies here. For now I'll mention that I had a 2205 and 2210 which I used throughout the mid 90s. They were good amps for sure, but I eventually got tired of doctoring the EQ between the useless "Normal" channel and the Boost channel. Back in the day it was common opinion that the Normal channel was practically useles on its own, due to lack of gain and EQ. They were viewed as one-trick-ponies, and when I sold them I was lucky to get $250 and $350 respectively. Now the Boost channel is very good - sometimes excellent. But they used diode clipping and there was always a fizz in the top end that you couldn't dial out without an outboard EQ. Master volume amps of that period lacked the same type of dynamics that the older NMV's had when rolling down the guitar's volume knob. The FX loop was ok. I was constantly fiddling with it trying to dial in the right amount of mids, treble and presence the 4 years I owned them. I eventually sold them and bought the Peavey Classic 50 head, which was THE amp to compete with Marshalls of the time. The Peavey had not that Marshall mystique, but as I recall it was a much better amp and required no outboard EQ'ing or tweaking. Today I feel that those 2205/2210 amps are overhyped because they were the last good Marshall and started off being easy to obtain by the early 2000's. They were not PTP, but they were all-tube, the pots and tubes were all chassis mounted - the pots were the original type, not those teeny square things they put on PCB's today. There were no processors or gimmicks. The reverb was a real spring. They were built tough and could take abuse. My opinion is that, compared to today's tones and features, the true value of a mint used 800 is around $600. For not much more than that you can get better amps today.

Take this all wif a grain of salt, YMMV.