Love My Dsl40c, But...

[BanditPanda]

Yes, I stand by my assertion that "Using an attenuator with a modern circuit will simply be taking the same sound you would have had at low volume from high volume back to the low volume again. No change in the breakup/distortion just the volume."

Last time I am going to tell you BP...I am not a tech. My observations are based on myself playing the amps I speak of and in the manner I speak of. I have played (and still do if I am too lazy to bring a plexi to rehearsal) JVM, DSL, TSL and a Mesa Triple Rec numerous times. Those amongst other high gain amps such as 5150's, Diezel and Diamond. Some of those are available to use at the rehearsal studio I play at and alternately I have friends who own others which I have at times borrowed and played loud for extended periods. I repeat, I play very, very loud and am not talking noodling for five minutes on the amps I speak of in a music store or someones house at low volume.

Again..."No change in the breakup/distortion just the volume"

IME, fact.

NMV plexi circuit?

Play it on low volume and then play it loud and there is a MASSIVE change in the breakup/distortion.

Fact.

Now use an attenuator on a plexi, turn the amp way up and dial down the attenuator to low volume. Then try the same scenario on a modern high gain amp.

Get back to me and let me know which amp had any discernible effect from the attenuator being used.

I think iron broadside is speaking more of what I would personally call "blooming" in regards to making the power tubes come alive. And I just don't hear the same "blooming" of power tubes in the modern high gain circuits when those amps are turned from moderate volume to extremely loud. To my ears those amps just get louder as you turn it up. And I have certainly never heard gain increase like it does on a NMV amp when doing so. As I mentioned earlier that "bloom" is still evident (to a point) on earlier MV circuits like a JCM800 or JCM900 so I don't think the MV itself is a factor. I believe it is the circuit itself and the way the power section is designed to run clean on a modern high gain amp. And from what I can understand given what I have researched on my own as well as heard from more knowledgeable people than myself, it is an intentional design to accommodate a tighter gain structure primarily derived from the preamp section in multi channel amps where an alternate clean sound can be achieved.

My suggestion?

Play the amps yourself.

Listen B/L I don't really care how many times you tell me you're not a tech.
I merely wanted to know if I ( or anybody ) should get an attenuator to use with our DSL series amps.
You asserted that because of the circuitry used in DSL amps there would be no point.
However, because you are " Not a Tech " I guess it means that you do not have an extensive knowledge of the circuitry involved. So I guess only a tech will be able to confirm whether your assertion is factual.
Thanks for the suggestion but I don't need to play the amps 'cause I already get a " wicked " sound out of my DSL40C without the use of an attenuator with volume on 2 and gain on 10. Perhaps my sound could get " wickeder ( lol more wicked ) with volume on 3.5 with an attenuator. At this point we have reached an impasse.
My thanks to your good self and Iron Broadsword for sharing.
BP.

 

[Len]

Listen B/L I don't really care how many times you tell me you're not a tech.
I merely wanted to know if I ( or anybody ) should get an attenuator to use with our DSL series amps.
You asserted that because of the circuitry used in DSL amps there would be no point.
However, because you are " Not a Tech " I guess it means that you do not have an extensive knowledge of the circuitry involved. So I guess only a tech will be able to confirm whether your assertion is factual.
Thanks for the suggestion but I don't need to play the amps 'cause I already get a " wicked " sound out of my DSL40C without the use of an attenuator with volume on 2 and gain on 10. Perhaps my sound could get " wickeder ( lol more wicked ) with volume on 3.5 with an attenuator. At this point we have reached an impasse.
My thanks to your good self and Iron Broadsword for sharing.
BP.

FWIW, I use an Unleash with my DSL40. Both so I can run the volume up at noon, and so I get a 2nd channel of the Unleash for solo volume boosts. I feel it makes the amp sound a little better, especially at low volume.

 

[solarburn]

The power section does indeed fill out and warm up the preamp. Notice how the gain fizz disappears when enuff volume is added.

I have never attenuated my DSL. The master volume works well and it isn't too fizzy at low volume. Raise volume and watch gain diminish.

However the amp is more dynamic when its breathing even though it's built a bit on the modern side. I play it classic and it feels sounds great that way. It isn't going to do our beloved vintage Marshall like the original. Just won't. The build and intent is why.

 

[BowerR64]

I got the weber "miniMass" i got it off e-bay new for $130. its a 50 watt version and has 3 little switches.

Ive actually been using mine, i got it for my 900 because i thought maybe cranking it up i could get a different sound out of it. I didnt feel cranking it sounded much better then just driving the preamp.

Im using it now to attenuate my 2X12 so that its not louder then my 4X12. I have a 1936 with 8ohm V30s and its way louder sitting on my 1960 4X12 with 16ohm G12T-75s

 

[nikola]

To add to the discussion, when the volume level is low, the effect of the bright cap evident.

As you turn up the volume, the effect of the bright cap is less. I believe this was the motivation to the DIY mods that are popular around here.

 

[Blueslicks]

Listen B/L I don't really care how many times you tell me you're not a tech.

Then stop insisting I provide you tech specific answers when I am simply sharing my own hands on experience. If I say it's probably going to rain because I am familiar with the climate are you going to insist I provide you with a breakdown of negative temperature anomalies an oscillation index, predictive convection and multi-model averages to appease you?

I merely wanted to know if I ( or anybody ) should get an attenuator to use with our DSL series amps.

So you asked on an internet forum and got one mans opinion who uses an avatar of a crow with a handle called Blueslicks. Take it or leave it.

You asserted that because of the circuitry used in DSL amps there would be no point.

You catch on quick.

However, because you are " Not a Tech " I guess it means that you do not have an extensive knowledge of the circuitry involved. So I guess only a tech will be able to confirm whether your assertion is factual.

Wow, you are absolutely on fire at this point.

Thanks for the suggestion but I don't need to play the amps 'cause I already get a " wicked " sound out of my DSL40C without the use of an attenuator with volume on 2 and gain on 10.

Good god. For WTF reason are you even asking questions then?

Perhaps my sound could get " wickeder ( lol more wicked ) with volume on 3.5 with an attenuator.

You should most definitely spend a few hundred on an attenuator dude. Hitting the ceiling at 3.5 on the volume is certainly the benchmark for death by loudness with that 40 watt bad boy you're rocking.

At this point we have reached an impasse.

Not "we" BP. Maybe "you" but certainly not "me". I am quite comfortable with my own assertions as I have actually based my opinion on experience.

My thanks to your good self and Iron Broadsword for sharing.
BP.

Well it will be your final thanks I can guarantee that because you will not receive any more of my own attention to your questions. And I am happy to explain why BP. A while back you started a thread discussing cabs. I subsequently located a thread from nearly a year prior to that in which you had reviewed the EXACT same answers to others questions regarding the EXACT same topic. I called you on it and you then stated you had "forgot". Fair enough.

But now here you are again, this time ripping me about a subject that you already have reviewed almost a year ago.

http://www.marshallforum.com/index....-really-need-to-be-cranked-2203-vs-dsl.66320/

And I see you've attempted the circuit question previously as well...

http://www.marshallforum.com/index.php?threads/this-trick-does-not-work-dsl-40c-content.86873/

That aside, I find you smarmy.

And I detest smarmy.

 

[solarburn]

Daem...remind me not to pissoff Blues!

 

[iron broadsword]

This thread's weird. I'm gonna have a beer instead next time I think about posting.

 

[BanditPanda]

Sorry you're butt hurt BL but thanks for being specific this time.
BP

 

[CraigP]

This thread's weird. I'm gonna have a beer instead next time I think about posting.

I know...I'm just like, WTF?

 

[solarburn]

Ok...when doesn't this forum git a bit weird? Kinda the norm if you're not focused. LOL

 

[JacksonCharvelAddict]

Not familiar with a re-amplifier / attenuator so I will have to check into them. Thanks for info! Guess the neighbors get free entertainment for now

Do you like your neighbors? If not do what I do. Aim the amp at their house and let the neighborhood kids "learn to play" on it. Guitar is best learned at 120db.

 

[JacksonCharvelAddict]

Did you use the words (good and inexpensive) in the same sentence?

It sounds like your interested in wall treatments ---- you may consider building your own sound traps, this is the method I have used in every music room and studio I have ever treated -- DIY


In addition, There are also some silent recording options that are relatively in expensive, but you will need a preamp and headphone amplifier to make good use of these Items...
I have a Palmer PDI-03 for sale on the bulletin board right now, but their primary market is aimed at going direct into PA or silent recording...
The is a company that makes a small isolation cabinet called AxeTrak. I have seen them on eBay pretty cheap, but it's for recording also.

I personally don't care for the tone of ppimv mods or attenuators, may as well be using a pod imop...

Isocabs are the way to go because a lot of the sound we are wanting is the speaker being pushed and compressing. You can't get that with attenuation.

 

[tonejunkie99]

Isocabs are the way to go because a lot of the sound we are wanting is the speaker being pushed and compressing. You can't get that with attenuation.

Iso cab may be the way to go for recording, or if you have a monitor system. especially if you play music that doesn't require feedback overtones.

Personally --- I have a iso cab but don't care for the tone --- I only use it for laying down (scratch) tracks, usually at night for those same reasons. Mine is still a little loud-outside the cab.
There is an outfit called AXE TRAXX that makes one that is a lot quieter and smaller, I've seen them used on ebay for around $150

I agree 100% regarding attenuation, I cant stand the sound either

 

[CraigP]

Do you like your neighbors? If not do what I do. Aim the amp at their house and let the neighborhood kids "learn to play" on it. Guitar is best learned at 120db.

Love this idea!

 

[tonejunkie99]

Listen B/L I don't really care how many times you tell me you're not a tech.
I merely wanted to know if I ( or anybody ) should get an attenuator to use with our DSL series amps.
You asserted that because of the circuitry used in DSL amps there would be no point.
However, because you are " Not a Tech " I guess it means that you do not have an extensive knowledge of the circuitry involved. So I guess only a tech will be able to confirm whether your assertion is factual.
Thanks for the suggestion but I don't need to play the amps 'cause I already get a " wicked " sound out of my DSL40C without the use of an attenuator with volume on 2 and gain on 10. Perhaps my sound could get " wickeder ( lol more wicked ) with volume on 3.5 with an attenuator. At this point we have reached an impasse.
My thanks to your good self and Iron Broadsword for sharing.
BP.

The sound and crunch of loud celestions cannot be fake'd at low volume.

I've never understood players passion for (attenuation) that sound is not authentic, don't feel right, it doesn't flap my bell bottoms (it doesn't sound like anything I've ever herd).
Unless your listening to AC/DC, Deep Purple or Free --- 99% of classic rock radio is stomp boxes between guitars and amps, (not attenuators).
You're not gonna sound like AC/DC, Deep Purple or Free with an attenuator at any volume.
If you are wanting to sound like a mainstream radio band that used tubescreamers, you should buy a tubescreamer, they are only $99.00

the vast majority of mainstream classic rock like - Hendrix, ZZ Top, Cream, Robin Trower, Aerosmith, Bad Company. They all used some variation of boost/fuzz/distortion boxes. Yes even Clapton on the John Mayhall records.

at low volume you will be able to dial in a more acceptable AC/DC, Deep Purple, Free sound with a Tubescreamer than with an Attenuator.

 

[ken361]

I think my mxr dyna comp sounds fuller and better then a tube screamer or clean boost at low or high volume buts there more hiss on the red but i dont really care

 

[tonejunkie99]

I think my mxr dyna comp sounds fuller and better then a tube screamer or clean boost at low or high volume buts there more hiss on the red but i dont really care

most blues and classic rock players don't need or want all their notes to be dynamically identical.

 

[ken361]

try it you might be surprised, sounds better, fuller,3D and more sustain on single coils what more can you ask for!!

 

[JacksonCharvelAddict]

Iso cab may be the way to go for recording, or if you have a monitor system. especially if you play music that doesn't require feedback overtones.

Personally --- I have a iso cab but don't care for the tone --- I only use it for laying down (scratch) tracks, usually at night for those same reasons. Mine is still a little loud-outside the cab.
There is an outfit called AXE TRAXX that makes one that is a lot quieter and smaller, I've seen them used on ebay for around $150

I agree 100% regarding attenuation, I cant stand the sound either

Some iso cabs are justa single 12in speaker and don't really sound the same as a regular cab would. I really want to make a sound proof closet to house my 4x12 and a few mics. I figure that would be the best tone. The more room in the iso room the more natural it would sound.