Marshalls that aged poorly… or at least “less gracefully”

[V-man]

Context is crucial to this, so let me frame the question as follows…

Given easy access to DSL variants, Origins, etc. for decisively low(er) prices, which Marshalls make much less sense to purchase given their prices, (potential) need for service and what that amp delivers in exchange?

I believe a clear example of this would be the JCM 800 Channel Switchers 2205/10 and counterpart combos.

Their prices come out well ahead of DSL/JCM 2000s as well as 900s by virtue of the 800 namesake. They can offer a perfectly good tone (true of any mid-tier and above Marshall), but I don’t foresee a consensus supporting a contention that you can’t do better or = on a DSL variant or some (if not all) 900 circuits, making it more of a collection item than an amp worth a “vintage premium” as opposed to old gear. This is compounded by channel issues on some of these amps and (IIRC) a now-unobtainable switching relay should the one on board go bad.

I foresee potential for a heated debate over 900s in particular and even an argument or two on more venerated circuits based on the prices, but I am interested to hear which amps you feel have not aged as gracefully for what must be invested into them, and what your reasons are.

 

[tallcoolone]

Any Marshall combo

 

[jeffb]

Any Marshall combo

Except for perhaps the Bluesbreaker.

 

[jeffb]

Definitely the 22xx channel switchers.

The Slash 25xx whatevers.

30th Anniversary.

 

[playloud]

Any Marshall combo

The 2104s still seem like a good deal in the UK.

My pick would be the 70s PCB NMV JMP heads in general. They tend to go for more than a 1959HW or quality clone, and by that point, the transformer quality had deteriorated enough that current production Marshall stuff is similar and the boutique-wound stuff is better.

 

[V-man]

Definitely the 22xx channel switchers.

The Slash 25xx whatevers.

I am assuming you’re referring to mid-90’s Slash Jubilees by virtue of the 2555X, 2525, and original 2550/5 Jubilees… not the AFD sig amp. The Slash model Jubilee was 2555 only.

30th Anniversary.

100% collector’s amp with a cringeworthy bench fee if a gremlin had to be traced. I suppose the counterpoint might be that it was the only “successfully-executed” multi-channel Marshall until the JVM came around (and was arguably improved by JS borrowing off the 6100).

 

[V-man]

The 2104s still seem like a good deal in the UK.

My pick would be the 70s PCB JMP heads in general.

That sounds like you contradicted yourself with all the 50W MV JMPs, unless 4104s etc. from the JCM era are sold extremely cheaply in the UK compared to their JMP counterparts.

 

[playloud]

That sounds like you contradicted yourself with all the 50W MV JMPs, unless 4104s etc. from the JCM era are sold extremely cheaply in the UK compared to their JMP counterparts.

Good catch. I meant the NMV amps (e.g. 1974 Super Leads). It seems crazy that people ask >US$2000 for these!

The JMP 2104s I was referring to are <£1000.

 

[jeffb]

I am assuming you’re referring to mid-90’s Slash Jubilees by virtue of the 2555X, 2525, and original 2550/5 Jubilees… not the AFD sig amp. The Slash model Jubilee was 2555 only.

I mean the Slash sig version, I just did not know the exact model designation. I guess at the time it was a big deal, but now with the resurgence of RIs, Minis, and fairly reasonable prices for original actual 25ths, its pretty much a collector's piece as well.

 

[Matthews Guitars]

I just see that the simpler amps built with more rugged "old school" construction methods are the ones that hold their value and collectibility over and above newer, more complex amps that can do more...when they're working correctly.

A Superlead or JTM45 or Bluesbreaker that's 50 years old or more is still a totally gig ready, roadworthy amp if it's just had some maintenance as is occasionally needed. And in fact some players still DO gig with them. But who thinks they'll EVER see a 50 year old JVM410 being gigged on the road?

 

[RCM 800]

Thank goodness for clones. You can still get a "good" Marshall for a reasonable price lol.

 

[rixmixnfix]

From a repairman's point of view, the JCM 800 series are the most road worthy, robust and easy to repair. The JCM 900's are OK too. Especially the 50 watt versions of both. Older Marshalls are worth more as investments than risking playing them out. There will be no 'vintage' JCM 2000's. They are cheaply made and have fatal design and production flaws that will limit their lifetimes.
Also, the 50 watt JCM 800, when tweeked (some parts upgrades and fresh caps and balanced inverter and output sections) are, to me, the best sounding all around Marshalls. But that of course is subjective opinion only.

 

[geddy]

Context is crucial to this, so let me frame the question as follows…

Given easy access to DSL variants, Origins, etc. for decisively low(er) prices, which Marshalls make much less sense to purchase given their prices, (potential) need for service and what that amp delivers in exchange?

I believe a clear example of this would be the JCM 800 Channel Switchers 2205/10 and counterpart combos.

Their prices come out well ahead of DSL/JCM 2000s as well as 900s by virtue of the 800 namesake. They can offer a perfectly good tone (true of any mid-tier and above Marshall), but I don’t foresee a consensus supporting a contention that you can’t do better or = on a DSL variant or some (if not all) 900 circuits, making it more of a collection item than an amp worth a “vintage premium” as opposed to old gear. This is compounded by channel issues on some of these amps and (IIRC) a now-unobtainable switching relay should the one on board go bad.

I foresee potential for a heated debate over 900s in particular and even an argument or two on more venerated circuits based on the prices, but I am interested to hear which amps you feel have not aged as gracefully for what must be invested into them, and what your reasons are.

2205 variants don't use a switching relay. They use a d.i.l. package transistor array. They are still obtainable. Marshall just replaced one for me. I also picked up a few as future proofing s while back. Oh and I like my 4212 but I've had it from new.

 

[NickKUK]

Except for perhaps the Bluesbreaker.

Avoiding anything with the PCB Given how difficult old PCBs are to work on (20 years and tracks/pads start lifting due to heat cycling and degrading PCBs etc). Especially with modern demand for attenuators placing the amps at full cranked power for longer.

I quite like combos but I can see their issues (flexibility, microphonic, mass etc). My DIY bluesbreaker-esque 1x12 combo is 586Wx609Hx316D mm and has spouse approval for being neat and tidy.

You'll have two camps:
* guitarists with a DI - they'll record the guitar direct, amp is for noodling..
* guitarists with an amp - they'll start with the DI output but quickly switch to the above or direct to a fully miked amp/cab.

If I was buying a Marshall now.. it would be a 1x12 or 2x12 combo, non-PCB with an attenutator with headphone and DI output.

 

[NickKUK]

I just see that the simpler amps built with more rugged "old school" construction methods are the ones that hold their value and collectibility over and above newer, more complex amps that can do more...when they're working correctly.

A Superlead or JTM45 or Bluesbreaker that's 50 years old or more is still a totally gig ready, roadworthy amp if it's just had some maintenance as is occasionally needed. And in fact some players still DO gig with them. But who thinks they'll EVER see a 50 year old JVM410 being gigged on the road?

Hear hear (well maybe that's ring ring with marshal tinnitus).

 

[Spooky88]

Rixmixnfix called it imo. And my experience with my JCM 900 4502 is such that the PCBs in that amp are rock solid, given that a dolt like me can keep that amp going (solder/resolder/heat/repeat) after 32 years and almost a 1000 gigs. Sorry NickKuk.

 

[NickKUK]

Rixmixnfix called it imo. And my experience with my JCM 900 4502 is such that the PCBs in that amp are rock solid, given that a dolt like me can keep that amp going (solder/resolder/heat/repeat) after 32 years and almost a 1000 gigs. Sorry NickKuk.

No worries. Pity some other amp manufacturers in the 1990s didn't get the memo on PCBs (hot hifi rather than guitar).

 

[Mrmadd]

Valvestate series during the late 80s is the worst group of Marshalls
The factory had issues with bad wave solder of PCBs

 

[Mrmadd]

They develop bad connections that are impossible to find.
Good Luck

I have had some Valvestates and like the amps, but buyer beware at this point.