Need advice - dsl 50 or jcm 900 4100?

[Ken]

The problem with the DSL is it provides almost TOO much gain on the ultra channel with the button pushed. It's a completely useless setting IMHO, but people who don't own a DSL (or are just plain stupid) go for the highest distortion setting and end up with the worst sound a DSL can make.

If Marshall ditched the button on the ultra channel, I doubt too many people would call the DSL "fizzy". You can go from shimmering clean on the green channel to a JCM 800 type distortion, and the Ultra channel is even more gain for modern death metal with the gain all the way up. I find I like the gain about half way up on the ultra channel, and I promise you my tone is NOT fizzy, fuzzy or any semblence of that.

My biggest complaint on the 900 Duel lead, which I played for about a month, was it was VERY hard to get a good EQ. Once I dialed it in, it was okay at volume. At low volume it's nothing special. When I got my DSL our bass player used the 900 and it really shined as a bass amp. Granted, the 900 may not have been biased recently, had the wrong brand of tubes etc. so your mileage may vary. There are lots of badly set up DSL's out there too.

Ken

 

[Claret Badger]

Jcm900

 

[jcmjmp]

The problem with the DSL is it provides almost TOO much gain on the ultra channel with the button pushed. It's a completely useless setting IMHO, but people who don't own a DSL (or are just plain stupid) go for the highest distortion setting and end up with the worst sound a DSL can make.

I never use the lead 2 mode. Its just too much distortion and you lose note definition. There is a good mod to get Lead 1 closer to the green channel and Lead 2 tamed a little with more definition. I've never tried it but I will.

 

[noise5150]

I have a DSL 50 watt going through a 4x12 Vintage Modern cab. My friend has the JCM900 and I have to say I dont like his tone. The DSL just rocks!

 

[Jesstaa]

Dual Reverb.
I can get any tone on this amp. And I don't know of any other amps as reliable as it.
It's 15 years old, probably taken a flogging it's entire life. After I got it, I set a tube on fire (And the previous owner bypassed the fuse, so the amp stayed on). Then replaced it with a set of mismatched tubes which red plated, and it's still going perfectly fine (Parts are starting to wear out of course). And I crank it often.


And as for the volume, this thing is great because it doesn't need to be cranked. I can get any genre of tone at bedroom volumes.

 

[Adrian R]

I won't argue over which amp you prefer and the adjectives you use to describe the difference in tone. That's subjective and your opinion.

For the reliability, I have to disagree.
1) The internet tends to make a big deal out of small things. Very often, some guy will complain about his JCM2000 not working when all that was wrong were the tubes. That still counts as a hit against the DSL's reliability record in some people's minds.
2) Add to that the fact that the same person will post about the same problem on 3 to 5 bulletin boards and forums. The problem seems to be larger than it actually is.
3) To make things worse, the DSL is THE best selling Marshall amp of all time. There's a LOT of DSLs in service out there but 90% of the time, we hear about the people that have had problems with them.
4) The DSL is a lot of people's 1st tube amp and with that comes a learning curve. Tube amps are not plug and play. Not a lot of people read their manuals and a lot of people do stupid things like turn the amp on with no speakers plugged in or mismatch the output impedance.

That doesn't mean that all DSLs (or TSLs) are perfect. Some people do have some issues with their amps like the C46 cap on the 100w variants and the very rare NTC resistors. The 22v fuses are a bitch to replace, but aside from that, they're pretty reliable. Talk to an amp technician that actually knows about electronics, not some self proclaimed tech. The ones I've spoken to cannot say that the JCM2000 line of amps is bad in terms of reliability or serviceability.

This reminds me of the Vox AC30 CC vs the old Vox AC30s. Everyone seems to assume that older = more reliable and better.

Personally, there's a LOT of amps I'd rather have before buying a non SL-X JCM900.

**Just got in the mail today the lastest Guitar World rag. One feature of this magazine that I always closely review is the magazine's back page in which features a monthly illustration entitled 'gutar rigs of the stars'. This month's featured artist is John5..Zombie's guitarist. Guess what he uses exclusively? 900 4100s........Over the years I have always observed this page and more then 90% of the time the PROS..not amateurs like me, if they are using Marshalls, use 800s or 900s ALL THE TIME..in fact, I have yet to see a professional artist using ANY newer Marshalls (2000 and on) as their mainstay rigs..

I think this in itself, although not the ultimate 'barometer' if you will,..speaks volumes..DONE...

btw..I honestly think if you heard a properly setup 900 rig, like mine, would be hard pressed to say you didn't like the tone..unless you were expressing some kind of bias...

btw(2)..FWIW..imo..I think the MK3s sound better then the SL-X..I've owned two of the SLXs..and although they sound way cool..(very hot rodded 800 sounding)..exhibited WAY TOO MUCH collateral noise..

but thats me..some dudes probably don't mind that shitty, loud, snake like hissing!

In the end though..I'd like to say, and I know I have said this before, have never met a healthy Marshall I didn't like..they are all fuckin' cool in their own way..

 

[Dave666]

4) The DSL is a lot of people's 1st tube amp and with that comes a learning curve. Tube amps are not plug and play. Not a lot of people read their manuals and a lot of people do stupid things like turn the amp on with no speakers plugged in or mismatch the output impedance.

That said, the DSL100 was my first tube amp back in the late '90s...
And like you say I didn't knew anything about tube amps...

but one thing I wonder is this:

I used that amp in my bedroom with no cab and used the send output to the return of my little bedroom amp, 'cause that dsl crunch was better than that little guy but I never blew the tubes, how come?

Is there an internal impedance on the output when there's no cab connected.

With my Peavey 5150 I tried the same and I saw those tubes turning blue real fast so I switched that one off immediatly... Didn't blew them either, but I was close...

 

[jcmjmp]

**Just got in the mail today the lastest Guitar World rag. One feature of this magazine that I always closely review is the magazine's back page in which features a monthly illustration entitled 'gutar rigs of the stars'. This month's featured artist is John5..Zombie's guitarist. Guess what he uses exclusively? 900 4100s........Over the years I have always observed this page and more then 90% of the time the PROS..not amateurs like me, if they are using Marshalls, use 800s or 900s ALL THE TIME..in fact, I have yet to see a professional artist using ANY newer Marshalls (2000 and on) as their mainstay rigs..

I think this in itself, although not the ultimate 'barometer' if you will,..speaks volumes..DONE...

btw..I honestly think if you heard a properly setup 900 rig, like mine, would be hard pressed to say you didn't like the tone..unless you were expressing some kind of bias...

btw(2)..FWIW..imo..I think the MK3s sound better then the SL-X..I've owned two of the SLXs..and although they sound way cool..(very hot rodded 800 sounding)..exhibited WAY TOO MUCH collateral noise..

but thats me..some dudes probably don't mind that shitty, loud, snake like hissing!

In the end though..I'd like to say, and I know I have said this before, have never met a healthy Marshall I didn't like..they are all fuckin' cool in their own way..

Its all cool. Am I biased? Of course I am. We're all biased towards what we prefer.

For pro rigs, you'll see people like Gary Moore, Jeff Beck, Sum41, Trivium, shadows fall used them for a long while, The Donnas, James Hetfield used DSLs and I'm sure a bunch more....

Personally, I don't think that it really makes a difference in whether either amp is good/bad/sucks/whatever.

 

[jcmjmp]

That said, the DSL100 was my first tube amp back in the late '90s...
And like you say I didn't knew anything about tube amps...

but one thing I wonder is this:

I used that amp in my bedroom with no cab and used the send output to the return of my little bedroom amp, 'cause that dsl crunch was better than that little guy but I never blew the tubes, how come?

Is there an internal impedance on the output when there's no cab connected.

You're lucky you didn't blow the output transformer. When using only the send with nothing connected in the return, the signal goes through the loop. You didn't blow the OT but you surely reduced its capacity and life.

You certainly got away with it by not having the volume loud. You know.... it does say not to use the amp with no speaker connected.

Anyways... that's what I mean... the next guy will probably have issues with the amp down the road, post something on a forum saying that his DSL doesn't work anymore and some guys will take that and say that they
re not reliable amps.

 

[NewReligion]

Nice to see everyone so passionate about their personal choice of JCM. I only have one remark to the individual that compared the DSL to a JCM 800. LMAO, WTF!?!? Are you serious. By the way Jon Levin from Dokken likes to use DSL and TSL in the studio. He now uses a Splawn Quick Rod live at times. I talked to him on the phone and he told me that the Splawn will destroy my Marshalls. I ordered one, waited 17 weeks for it and hated that amp, too compressed with little character and poor dynamics when applying my technique. So I sold it 6 days later to break even. The point is don't beat each other up over the tone quest. What matters is what works for you and inspires you to play your best.

David

David C. Hopkins on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads

 

[slowhand]

So what did you buy? My advice, demo demo demo!

For my style of music, I'd choose the DSL by a long shot. I have a 2203 800 since new and I went out and bought the JCM900 brand new almost the day those hit stores. I've never been so disappointed in an amp in all my life. Other than keeping the 800, I ditched the 900 a year later and left Marshall stuff for many many years. Now I am back with a dsl 50 and like it more than I ever thought I would and only reason I bought it was some kid was late on his rent and needed cash. Picked up the head for 300 bucks like new.

But my main amp is still the Bogner Shiva. Just more my style. Your mileage may vary.

Peace.

 

[jcmjmp]

In the end, I think that you have to play the amp before you buy it and get the one you prefer. The JCM900 can get some real good tones, as can the DSLs. Its all a matter of preference and what you need for your playing style and application.

 

[stone temple pinot]

well...I went with the JCM 900 4100. And I really love it.
I get great sounds, even at bedroom volumes.

 

[Claret Badger]

good work

it's good to have a "secret" isn't it?

Sometimes it seems the majority of the guitar playing world hates the maligned JCM900.

I have one - and I, and everyone else who has heard it loves it.

HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY!

 

[LesPaulopolis]

If you like 90s rock, the 4100 is a familiar territory!

Search the forum...there's a bunch of threads with diff. 'tricks' to get diff. tones w/the 4100. Gigged with mine on Friday and it sounded massive. Totally ate the noisy 2100 SLX that followed us.

Enjoy your new amp!!!

 

[Adwex]

DSL50, hands down.

I agree.

*edit* oops, I see you already got the 900.