New amp suggestions

[Doadman]

I play a Jackson Soloist into a Marshall DSL401, through a variety of good quality pedals. At gigs I hook the DSL up to a Marshall 1960A. For high gain sounds I use the clean channel with a Hardwire Metal Distortion and an MXR Boost pedal for solos. This is very effective. My core sound however comes from the amp itself as I love that Marshall tone I grew up with but this is where the problem lies. The gain is set to about 6 and a lot of the time is spent on the OD2 channel. Just using the amp I find the distortion to be a bit mushy, like it's being played through a blanket. However, I've found that if I put a Digitech Bad Monkey in front of the amp with the gain set at zero and the level maxed out this transforms the sound into a beautifully crisp and articulate distortion. The problem is that when I engage the boost pedal for solos it has very little effect. I imagine that this is because the amp has nowhere left to go as I'm driving it hard already.

I've thought of a couple of possible solutions but not sure which, if any, would be best.

One idea is to sell the individual pedals and buy a Digitech RP1000 to connect to a guitar amp using the four cable method. That way I would have more tonal options available, which is handy as I'm in a Rock Covers band and I'm guessing that running it through a valve amp would create amp models very like a real all-valve amp as well as allowing me to use a guitar amp's own tone as my core sound. This solution has some advantages as I could then just use headphones for practice and just buy a head unit to go with the 4X12 for gigs. The concern is that the amp models will be significantly worse than the valve amp will give me and the quality of the effects will be poor. I'd also need to find a Marshall head that doesn't give me the same problem I have now.

An alternative solution would be to sell the individual pedals for an RP1000 and change the amp to a Marshall EL34 50/50 and just use the amp models on the RP1000. Advantages and concerns are pretty much as above. I hear the Marshall EL34 works well with modellers but I'd be relying totally on a modeller for my sounds and I'm not sure I'm convinced that they are, as yet, completely up to it.

The final option I've come up with would be to keep the individual pedals and simply upgrade the amp. The limitation here would be that I'd still need an amp to practice so the amp would need to be a combo as I can't fit the 4X12 in my practice room and again, I'd need to make sure the new amp would not have the same problems I have at the moment.

It seems to me that as I love the tone I have on my existing amp (albeit with the help of an overdrive pedal) it would make sense to look at a Marshall but I have no idea which one as I'm wary of ending up with the same problem I have now. I could, of course, leave the Marshall fold so I've looked at things like a Bugera 333XL (I've heard they sound good but there seem to be a number of reliability issues), Laney GH100L (Heard some mixed reports of this one), Peavey 6505+ (Heard a lot of good things about this but may be a bit too much of a one trick pony), Engl Screamer (Seems to be very good but a bit pricey).

I have no problem going second hand as long they actually come up on Ebay. As you guys are Marshall experts I'd appreciate your advice on what I should do for the best results.

 

[Australian]

Just buy a JVM. You will notice a big difference in tone. The JVM is far superior to the DSL. I owned a DSL for a very short period of time, and couldn't stand that mushiness that you talked about. But the DSL is cheap so is a good temporary amp until one chooses to buy a JVM or 6100 Jubilee etc.

 

[Doadman]

The JVM sounds good and I see there are at least a couple on Ebay. What's the difference between the JVM and the Vintage Modern? To be honest, when I first saw 'JVM' I thought it stood for Vintage Modern but looking on the GAK website I see they are different models and the Vintage Modern seems just slightly cheaper.

 

[JohnH]

I love JVMs and VMs too, but if you like the tone you have, try the volume control pedal in the loop as I suggested on your other thread. It should do what you want, because it is after all the preamp distortion

 

[TwinACStacks]

The CORE Plexi Lead sound of a DSL is FAR superior to any friggin' JVM, don't let Australian con you. I can Show you how to mod it so Nothing short of another modded DSL will touch it. Get an Early, (pre 2000), 100 watter 'cause why play around?

I will Put MY DSpLexi up against anything. I wasn't absolutely 100% sure of this braggadocio type statement until Friday when I went into Guitar Center and "Auditioned" an Early '70s 100w SLP. I left there with a TERRIBLE case of GAS and wondering how on earth I was going to finagle the Coin/ even Trade? to acquire this vintage head, before someone else scooped it up. I even expressed this to Longhair on the 6100 thread.

That WAS, until later that night. I went into my Basement and Fired up my Baby. I played around with only the Presence and Treble controls with the Red OD2 Gain on about 3 O'clock, Volume around 10-11 O'clock. It sounded better than the 70's Plexi, NOT just marginally but by A LOT. My GAS is gone, with the exception of wanting an early JTM45 but that's another story, I just love KT66s.

You haven't experienced a DSL until you have one with EL34's. Those EL84s are nice but they belong in Voxes.

I can get the Mushiness and Fizz right out of that bad boy.

JVM? Just a glorified TSL. Pu-leeze....



TWIN

 

[Australian]

The CORE Plexi Lead sound of a DSL is FAR superior to any friggin' JVM, don't let Australian con you. I can Show you how to mod it so Nothing short of another modded DSL will touch it. Get an Early, (pre 2000), 100 watter 'cause why play around?

I will Put MY DSpLexi up against anything. I wasn't absolutely 100% sure of this braggadocio type statement until Friday when I went into Guitar Center and "Auditioned" an Early '70s 100w SLP. I left there with a TERRIBLE case of GAS and wondering how on earth I was going to finagle the Coin/ even Trade? to acquire this vintage head, before someone else scooped it up. I even expressed this to Longhair on the 6100 thread.

That WAS, until later that night. I went into my Basement and Fired up my Baby. I played around with only the Presence and Treble controls with the Red OD2 Gain on about 3 O'clock, Volume around 10-11 O'clock. It sounded better than the 70's Plexi, NOT just marginally but by A LOT. My GAS is gone, with the exception of wanting an early JTM45 but that's another story, I just love KT66s.

You haven't experienced a DSL until you have one with EL34's. Those EL84s are nice but they belong in Voxes.

I can get the Mushiness and Fizz right out of that bad boy.

JVM? Just a glorified TSL. Pu-leeze....



TWIN

If you like the tone of the DSL Twin good luck to you. What I've heard here with the modded DSL's is an amp trying to be a JVM, and falling way short of the JVM.
The fact that so many people mod their DSL is proof enough.
But to be able buy a Marshall so cheap is a plus point for the DSL, and I love the ease in which you can bias the DSL.

 

[TwinACStacks]

If you like the tone of the DSL Twin good luck to you. What I've heard here with the modded DSL's is an amp trying to be a JVM, and falling way short of the JVM.
The fact that so many people mod their DSL is proof enough.
But to be able buy a Marshall so cheap is a plus point for the DSL, and I love the ease in which you can bias the DSL.

Australian the JVM is a Great Amp. I'm yankin' Your chain a Bit. What I said about My DSL is also the Truth--BUT, My DSL is so far removed from stock that it isn't really a DSL anymore. It's WAY more Vintage sounding than anything stock, which I attribute to a Reduction in Gain, Proper Value Grid Blockers, a Smoothing Choke and PLEXI Transformers. Plus we played with all kinds of tone stack Values and shelving points. Stock they are way too Gainy,Fizzy and Flubby. HOWEVER, they are the BEST Platform to Mod that Marshall Has. And they can be had cheaply, but I have noticed they are increasing steadily in price on Evilbay. He wouldn't do wrong with either, But he seriously needs EL34s to experience the True Marshall tone.

TWIN

 

[Australian]

Australian the JVM is a Great Amp. I'm yankin' Your chain a Bit. What I said about My DSL is also the Truth--BUT, My DSL is so far removed from stock that it isn't really a DSL anymore. It's WAY more Vintage sounding than anything stock, which I attribute to a Reduction in Gain, Proper Value Grid Blockers, a Smoothing Choke and PLEXI Transformers. Plus we played with all kinds of tone stack Values and shelving points. Stock they are way too Gainy,Fizzy and Flubby. HOWEVER, they are the BEST Platform to Mod that Marshall Has. And they can be had cheaply, but I have noticed they are increasing steadily in price on Evilbay. He wouldn't do wrong with either, But he seriously needs EL34s to experience the True Marshall tone.

TWIN

I'm yanking your chain too. I made a personal bet that you would take the bait first.
But seriously Doadman the JVM, and you'll probably sell most of your pedals because you wont need those noisy things in the chain anymore.

 

[TwinACStacks]

I've GOT to get some sound clips posted because I'm still fucking amazed that It turned out as well as it did. God, I would love to have that SLP at Guitar Center. I think it's a '71 It has a mod called an X Factor switch which apparently is a Half-Power switch, on the rear Panel. Really good Sounding but You would need an Attenuator 'cause I found the sweet spot--but It was so fucking loud It was making my ears bleed. Get this: They are asking $1649 USD ($1896 AUD) for it. It looks fairly pristine, but who knows what's been done to it, I would have to check it out Thoroughly.

TWIN

 

[clutch71]

Instead of the RP1000 have a look at the GSP 1101. Little pricier but very versitile. I believe the RP 1000 can only go in front or in the loop. The 1101 allows both. The effects are for the most part top notch. I think it would integrate just fine with your 401 but if you were thinking of going with an EL34 based power section would recommend a DSL because of the 1/4" jack switching. Instead of the control 2 (footboard propietary to the 1101) go with a ROland FC300. It has amp control that will allow you to change channels on the amp.

Some of the amp models to me sound better than others but this thing is a tweakers dream. As a tube snob...I prefer to use the amps tone over any model. The other nice thing is that it allows you to drive the channel volumes on the amp higher and then control the overall output with the 1101 acting almost like an attenuator. Great tones at any volume.

For an around the house hobbyist...I run a pretty complex set up. Here's a photo

http://http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/clutch71/IMG_9889.jpg

if you have any questions....shoot me a pm

 

[Doadman]

The Boost pedal I'm using is already absolutely the last thing in the chain before it goes to the effects return.

My DSL401 did have the original valves changed to a full set of JJ's and a G12T-75 installed but I don't know if those new valves were EL34's or still EL84's so that may make a difference.

This is very much a chicken and egg situation for me. If an RP1000 (it does intergrate with your own amp like the rack version) is that good with effects and amp models then I don't need a guitar amp that will do everything but if the new amp will do all I need, there's no point in buying the RP1000. I need an amp that will go from clean to very high gain with a tight and articulate distortion all the way rather than the mush I get stock at the moment. I don't even care if it doesn't go all the way to high gain as the Hardwire Metal Distortion pedal can do that for me. The JVM certainly seems like a good option and I notice that the DSL head units use EL34 valves so I assume that would make them noticeably better than my combo and they seem to be readily available on Ebay. My latest thought is to try a Marshall DSL and JVM head units to see what they're like (maybe also a Peavey 6505+ and Bugera 333XL head) and just get that for gigs to use with my pedals. I can always pick up a Vypyr modeling amp for practice at home.

 

[TwinACStacks]

The best advice I can give you is to try as many of the Amps you are interested in as you can and GO BY YOUR OWN EARS, Not by what somebody like myself tells you. We all hear things differently. If it were me, I would stick to Marshall, Orange, Hiwatt, Vox, or Laney. If you MUST go American FENDER period.

TWIN

 

[Doadman]

Ah, Laney, I meant to say that one too and forgot, . I was also looking at the GH and VH valve heads. I don't know much about the 5881 valves but I believe they can be changed to EL34's anyway.

 

[clutch71]

...My DSL401 did have the original valves changed to a full set of JJ's and a G12T-75 installed but I don't know if those new valves were EL34's or still EL84's so that may make a difference.

Definately EL84's in the 401. Sure it could be converted but no real point in that.

Several of the amps you mentioned will do what you are looking. I have not had much luck with rack effects and parallel loops just for the record. Serial loops for me are pretty much plug and play....

 

[jcmjmp]

If you like the tone of the DSL Twin good luck to you.

I have a DSL and much prefer its tone over that of a JVM. Its all personal.

The OP has a 401. Its a variant of the DSL heads with a different feature set and power section. A DSL head should be a step up IMO.

 

[Australian]

I have a DSL and much prefer its tone over that of a JVM. Its all personal.

The OP has a 401. Its a variant of the DSL heads with a different feature set and power section. A DSL head should be a step up IMO.

I hear you and disagree. The DSL is a few steps down from the JVM. I've owned a DSL. Youre like a few others here and assume things about amps without actually owning one.
The JVM is more complex than one or two channel Marshalls so if you didnt get a great sound you simply didnt know how to use it.

 

[Ken]

I agree in higher gain settings on the DSL red channel, boost pedals don't do much. A really good solution is to use the green channel; it takes boost pedals much better to my ears.

As for the JVM, it's different from the DSL as it has more features, more gain on tap and a rather scary reverb design that is prone to fry from static electricity. It's a great amp but if the OP likes his DSL, the JVM isn't going to address his issue any more than changing the channel setups on the DSL will.

Ken

 

[Bieling3]

I'm selling my clean boost because I don't need it anymore. Got the right (500k) pots in my guitar with the right caps in the right places and can almost go from rhythm to lead just rolling my Tone knob up to 10 from 5. The Volume knobs are supper responsive now and don't get all muddy at lower settings. What kind of guitar are you playing? What kind of pickups?