Reel to reel as pre amp and echo

[PelliX]

[3] this was quite easy to do with a small mixing board with one FX send . You ran the guitar into the first channel of the board, and the output of the board to your amp. You used the FX send on that first channel to also send the guitar signal to the input of the tape machine You ran the tape out into the second channel of the mixer. This slider controlled the volume of the first echo. You then turned up the FX send on the second channel a bit. This sent some of the first echo back to the tape machine where it was delayed again and emerged as a second echo, etc. again. if you turn the FX send for the second channel up too high, the system goes into feedback.

Maybe good to outline that you want to use a mic input for the guitar in that case. Personally, I'd just run it through the deck's mic input and have the mixer handling line levels.

 

[PelliX]

Yes you are right! The problem with low output is fixed. I changed tapes and the problem was solved. Now only get the echo going haha.

Twente is really far unfortuantly. I live in Den Bosch.

Cool. Yup, that's a bit far. You could ship it, but it would probably cost more than you paid for it in the first place.

That is great info. Maybe i am going to look for a 4000ds too. I like the fact, that tape deck are basicly big pedals haha.

They go for about 50 on marktplaats.

In holland there are no aiwas available.

Mainly those AKAI's, Revox A/B77's and the odd TEAC, indeed. Some of those TEACs are nice, but I wouldn't abuse them as pedals... You might get lucky and score an old Aristona (Philips), though.

 

[SkyMonkey]

How did you hooked it up?

No idea. I was 7 at the time (55 now!).

 

[Blaoskaak]

Cool. Yup, that's a bit far. You could ship it, but it would probably cost more than you paid for it in the first place.



They go for about 50 on marktplaats.



Mainly those AKAI's, Revox A/B77's and the odd TEAC, indeed. Some of those TEACs are nice, but I wouldn't abuse them as pedals... You might get lucky and score an old Aristona (Philips), though.

Ok, i was away longer than expected. Today i got myself a 4000ds. i was very excited. I was on my way home listening to Mister blackmore and hyped myself up, I came home and plugged it in and i got...... Not much

my volume drops everytime, i think it is a maintenance problem. So i am not to worried about it, But when i turn the source on tape, then i hear some notes which are recorded. i dont hear my live notes, if that makes sense.

I don't understand why it is so hard to get it working. I plug my guitar in the mic input and then the output goes to the input of my amp head.

It bothers me, because the sound when i play trough source sound amazing. Realy blackmore-ish. When i play over tape, it doesn't work.
Really wondering what is going wrong.

Anyone got some advice?

Edit: Also my tape fall off. should there be some clips or someting to hold the tapes in place? the 210d has a clip that you can pull out and twist, so the tapes stay in place.

 

[Blaoskaak]

No idea. I was 7 at the time (55 now!).

That is cool. Wish i played guitar when i was 7. I started at 28

 

[PelliX]

my volume drops everytime, i think it is a maintenance problem. So i am not to worried about it, But when i turn the source on tape, then i hear some notes which are recorded. i dont hear my live notes, if that makes sense.

Congrats on the deck! Yes, a well known issue with those units are the buttons on the front panel, they seldom fail, but they can get gunked up and fail to make contact. Take the panel off the front (3 screws, I believe) and shoot some contact cleaner in the switches. Rock 'em back and forth 20-30 times (or until they clear up). First switch is Line/Tape Monitor - you'll know when that's working. Next one you don't really have to worry about, that's Sound On Sound. Same applies, while you're in there anyway, though. Next up are the EQ and Tape Type switches. Shot of contact cleaner and rock' em like you did the first ones. On the EQ switch, during playback, you should notice a difference in treble response when flipping it back and forth.

Oh, and the VU meters are not screwed in, so maybe best to lay the unit on its back to do this or be ready to gently slow the meters back in place. You'll work it out.

I don't understand why it is so hard to get it working. I plug my guitar in the mic input and then the output goes to the input of my amp head.

Well, neither you or I know exactly in what state that deck is. My offer to service stands, but the driving or shipping is on you. However, what I can tell you is that you're missing a bit. If you run the guitar -> 4000DS Mic input -> [tape] -> 4000DS line output -> amp you're not going to get an echo, you'll literally (when set to tape monitor AND recording) get a delay of however long it takes the tape to travel from the recording head to the playback head. Now, I can gladly re-iterate what others in the thread have said and work through it with you, no problem. My recommendation would be to *first* assess whether the deck is indeed "functional" and *then* proceed with the guitar bit. Yes, boring, whatever.

It bothers me, because the sound when i play trough source sound amazing. Realy blackmore-ish. When i play over tape, it doesn't work.

Do you know that you're not accidentally recording on the wrong side of the tape? You would NOT be the first person to conclude a deck (or a tape) is fubar because of that....

Edit: Also my tape fall off. should there be some clips or someting to hold the tapes in place? the 210d has a clip that you can pull out and twist, so the tapes stay in place.

Yes, there should be two rubber "top hats" that just fit snugly on top of the tape reels. If you didn't get those with the deck, use it on its back. Upright is recommended, and you'll need angled RCA jacks on the back if you lay it down flat, but it will work. Maybe (ignore the people shuddering in horror), angle it back to make it look more like a pro reel to reel station from back in the day...

Also, did you clean the heads? Q-tips, alcohol. Yes, that can make the difference between a muffled note here and there and a "pretty decent" recording.

 

[SkyMonkey]

That is cool. Wish i played guitar when i was 7. I started at 28

No no no no no.
This was only me and my slightly older brother fooling around with redundant technology my dad had moved on from (to cassettes).
We were just going Boo and la la la down a microphone and laughing at the weird results.
Started playing at the age of 20, and still no good at it!

 

[Blaoskaak]

No no no no no.
This was only me and my slightly older brother fooling around with redundant technology my dad had moved on from (to cassettes).
We were just going Boo and la la la down a microphone and laughing at the weird results.
Started playing at the age of 20, and still no good at it!

Haha oh! Well it sounds fun! Your mom and dad must be pretty with you and your borther performance every day.

Ah, well you started earlier than me. And what is good. I noticed that my friends find everything good. They dont hear a single mistake.

When my friends are over and i have a few beers, i plug my guitar in and act like i am a rockstar. My friends have the biggest smiles and i have alot of fun too (except my neighboors) that is what matters to mee.

 

[Blaoskaak]

Congrats on the deck! Yes, a well known issue with those units are the buttons on the front panel, they seldom fail, but they can get gunked up and fail to make contact. Take the panel off the front (3 screws, I believe) and shoot some contact cleaner in the switches. Rock 'em back and forth 20-30 times (or until they clear up). First switch is Line/Tape Monitor - you'll know when that's working. Next one you don't really have to worry about, that's Sound On Sound. Same applies, while you're in there anyway, though. Next up are the EQ and Tape Type switches. Shot of contact cleaner and rock' em like you did the first ones. On the EQ switch, during playback, you should notice a difference in treble response when flipping it back and forth.

Oh, and the VU meters are not screwed in, so maybe best to lay the unit on its back to do this or be ready to gently slow the meters back in place. You'll work it out.



Well, neither you or I know exactly in what state that deck is. My offer to service stands, but the driving or shipping is on you. However, what I can tell you is that you're missing a bit. If you run the guitar -> 4000DS Mic input -> [tape] -> 4000DS line output -> amp you're not going to get an echo, you'll literally (when set to tape monitor AND recording) get a delay of however long it takes the tape to travel from the recording head to the playback head. Now, I can gladly re-iterate what others in the thread have said and work through it with you, no problem. My recommendation would be to *first* assess whether the deck is indeed "functional" and *then* proceed with the guitar bit. Yes, boring, whatever.



Do you know that you're not accidentally recording on the wrong side of the tape? You would NOT be the first person to conclude a deck (or a tape) is fubar because of that....



Yes, there should be two rubber "top hats" that just fit snugly on top of the tape reels. If you didn't get those with the deck, use it on its back. Upright is recommended, and you'll need angled RCA jacks on the back if you lay it down flat, but it will work. Maybe (ignore the people shuddering in horror), angle it back to make it look more like a pro reel to reel station from back in the day...

Also, did you clean the heads? Q-tips, alcohol. Yes, that can make the difference between a muffled note here and there and a "pretty decent" recording.

Thanks for the reply, i send you a PM to send it to you, so you can check out out.

 

[purpleplexi]

My parents had an old Grundig valve r to r. It didn't have meters it had like 2 green flourescent strips that moved towards each other as the input got louder. When they met in the middle you got infinite sustain and feedback. It really sounded pretty good and I'm sure I'm not remembering through rose tinted - well - ears? I remember when I finally got a real guitar amp I was a bit disappointed.
This was late 60s. I'm sure Ritchie came down our street, heard it, looked in through the window and thought `hmmmmm....`

 

[PelliX]

My parents had an old Grundig valve r to r. It didn't have meters it had like 2 green flourescent strips that moved towards each other as the input got louder. When they met in the middle you got infinite sustain and feedback. It really sounded pretty good and I'm sure I'm not remembering through rose tinted - well - ears? I remember when I finally got a real guitar amp I was a bit disappointed.
This was late 60s. I'm sure Ritchie came down our street, heard it, looked in through the window and thought `hmmmmm....`

Probably EM87 valves or similar. I've got a couple of old Philips 3304's (or similar, OTOH) that still have those "tube VU meters" - really cute looking. I'm not sure they're even made anymore, though I think I've seen some Chinese CP ones (or something similar enough it would work in a pinch).

 

[purpleplexi]

Probably EM87 valves or similar. I've got a couple of old Philips 3304's (or similar, OTOH) that still have those "tube VU meters" - really cute looking. I'm not sure they're even made anymore, though I think I've seen some Chinese CP ones (or something similar enough it would work in a pinch).

Sadly at some point it got given away/thrown out. It would be fun to try it again.

 

[PelliX]

You're welcome to a Philips 3304 if you're interested? I'm certainly never going to use them.