Reverb Listing: Marshall Super Lead 1968

[Quinny]

Got your hands on it yet @AlfaQV ? Looking forward to hearing how it sounds!

 

[janalex]

It is not conjecture and it’s not something I read on the internet. The tech who replaced his output transformer and reverted it back to stock is here on the east coast and quite well known in certain spheres. Specifically I asked if it was stock and it was until someone in England (again well known) modded it. Now it’s stock again except for running 4 6550 or kt88 tubes.

Also agree with a previous post that at full guitar volume it’s hard to tell the difference between sl and sb. The magic is at the low guitar volume settings. For me those tones many of which can be heard in page live tones are much more useable. For instance in the boogie whole lotta love jam srts.

 

[AlfaQV]

Got your hands on it yet @AlfaQV ? Looking forward to hearing how it sounds!

Sadly not yet. UPS brought it yesterday over an hour before the delivery window and I wasn't home. Requires a signature so hope I can catch it today! Going out of town tomorrow so I may not be able to play it until next week

 

[Petejax1234]

Asking price was £6500

Fair play. I own most vintage Marshall amps, the only thing missing is a plexi and that’s likely going to be my next purchase

 

[playloud]

Fair play. I own most vintage Marshall amps, the only thing missing is a plexi and that’s likely going to be my next purchase

Which kind though? "Plexi" covers a lot of different models (pretty much all the vintage ones, in fact)

 

[Petejax1234]

Which kind though? "Plexi" covers a lot of different models (pretty much all the vintage ones, in fact)

I’m kind of thinking JTM45 or 1986 bass. I love my superbass more than my 1987 from 1973. Think I prefer the less aggressive circuit

 

[AlfaQV]

Finally unpacked the amp and got the tubes re-installed (Russian tubes... damnit). Forgot that my step up transformer has an EU plug in, as opposed to UK, with US adapter. Just want to check in here before I buy an adaptor to plug it in as I'm not handy and don't want to do any damage to the amp. Will my 250 watt max load transformer do the trick or should I get one with a larger max load? If I need one that handles more power I was thinking of a Hammond 298ET. Any thoughts or concerns?

 

[Derrick111]

It is not conjecture and it’s not something I read on the internet. The tech who replaced his output transformer and reverted it back to stock is here on the east coast and quite well known in certain spheres. Specifically I asked if it was stock and it was until someone in England (again well known) modded it. Now it’s stock again except for running 4 6550 or kt88 tubes.

I was referring more to the claim that what you hear Page use at MSG was the SB, not whether his SB was ever modded to lead specs and back. I don't think we actually know which amp it was at MSG, nor does Page himself apparently. The Anthology incorrectly states that the SB was used on the theremin, but we can clearly see that it was actually the Orange used on the theremin. So even Page and crew are confused about how the SB was used, and fans can only speculate or guess if the SL or the SB miced for guitar at that show. None of this really matters though... The MSG sound is attainable with a stock Superlead or Superbass so I never understood why people see the sound as so elusive.

 

[playloud]

Finally unpacked the amp and got the tubes re-installed (Russian tubes... damnit). Forgot that my step up transformer has an EU plug in, as opposed to UK, with US adapter. Just want to check in here before I buy an adaptor to plug it in as I'm not handy and don't want to do any damage to the amp. Will my 250 watt max load transformer do the trick or should I get one with a larger max load? If I need one that handles more power I was thinking of a Hammond 298ET. Any thoughts or concerns?

250W is not a good idea! You should expect the amp to draw up to 375W under normal operating conditions.

I wouldn't go for anything less than 500VA. That Hammond looks fine to me (assuming you have the right US > UK adapter), but I don't have personal experience.

Edit: I see the amp has selectable mains. Why not just use the US voltage setting and a Bulgin connector with a US plug on the end?

 

[79 2203]

It is not conjecture and it’s not something I read on the internet. The tech who replaced his output transformer and reverted it back to stock is here on the east coast and quite well known in certain spheres. Specifically I asked if it was stock and it was until someone in England (again well known) modded it. Now it’s stock again except for running 4 6550 or kt88 tubes.

Also agree with a previous post that at full guitar volume it’s hard to tell the difference between sl and sb. The magic is at the low guitar volume settings. For me those tones many of which can be heard in page live tones are much more useable. For instance in the boogie whole lotta love jam srts.

Wouldn’t a Superlead with a stock bright cap clean up better than a Super Bass if both amps are set to the same amount of overdrive??

 

[Blue Floyd]

So, appears the conversation moved on, but just had an opportunity to review the Page Anthology book and it does reference his use of a Super Bass amongst other Super Leads. Although there are more Super Leads, the amp designated as #1 during the '73 tour was indeed a modified Super Bass.

 

[playloud]

Wouldn’t a Superlead with a stock bright cap clean up better than a Super Bass if both amps are set to the same amount of overdrive??

It depends on your definition of "better" but I would say no - the opposite in fact.

A bright cap means that at any setting on the volume pot, signal above a certain value (determined by the cap value) bypasses the pot (i.e. is "on 10"). With bright cap values, this makes the amp thin and annoying at low volumes. With a larger value (like the 5nf used on later Super Leads), your midrange begins breaking up virtually as soon as you move the volume pot past 0 and good cleans are kind of a moot point

With a Super Bass, you basically have nice, well-balanced cleans at low volumes, and the balance continues up to the point of overdrive (although you'll want to roll off the bass at a certain point).

You could make a case that a bright cap compensates for the Fletcher-Munson effect, but it is a crude tool indeed in that respect! Far better to use your EQ controls.

I know a few people who believe Marshalls would have a better all-round reputation if they had either ditched the bright caps or made them switchable (like Fender did).

 

[79 2203]

It depends on your definition of "better" but I would say no - the opposite in fact.

A bright cap means that at any setting on the volume pot, signal above a certain value (determined by the cap value) bypasses the pot (i.e. is "on 10"). With bright cap values, this makes the amp thin and annoying at low volumes. With a larger value (like the 5nf used on later Super Leads), your midrange begins breaking up virtually as soon as you move the volume pot past 0 and good cleans are kind of a moot point

With a Super Bass, you basically have nice, well-balanced cleans at low volumes, and the balance continues up to the point of overdrive (although you'll want to roll off the bass at a certain point).

You could make a case that a bright cap compensates for the Fletcher-Munson effect, but it is a crude tool indeed in that respect! Far better to use your EQ controls.

I know a few people who believe Marshalls would have a better all-round reputation if they had either ditched the bright caps or made them switchable (like Fender did).

Yeah I agree a stock 1987/59 can be a challenge to get fat cleans or cleanish tones at low amp volume due to the aggressive bright cap, but what I meant was, which amp(Lead v Bass spec)would be better for guitar vol cleanup.

So for example, Page opens TSRTS with Rock n Roll which is a reasonably aggressive crunch tone and assumingly on his LP’s bridge pickup with the guitar vol near full. But when he plays SIBLY or No Quarter he’s obviously turned down the guitar vol and switched to the neck or middle setting.
So which amp would allow him to get that clean,clear, articulate neck/middle position tone better ??

IME Ive usually found a stock Lead spec Marshall to be king of guitar vol cleanup over another Lead spec Marshall that’s been modded for a lower cap value, or none at all.
I didn’t get to play my stock 70 Superbass I got in January much before I took it to a Tech for some TLC, and he’s still got it so I can’t experiment myself . All my previous bright cap v no bright cap experience was with 2203’s.

 

[playloud]

Yeah I agree a stock 1987/59 can be a challenge to get fat cleans or cleanish tones at low amp volume due to the aggressive bright cap, but what I meant was, which amp(Lead v Bass spec)would be better for guitar vol cleanup.

So for example, Page opens TSRTS with Rock n Roll which is a reasonably aggressive crunch tone and assumingly on his LP’s bridge pickup with the guitar vol near full. But when he plays SIBLY or No Quarter he’s obviously turned down the guitar vol and switched to the neck or middle setting.
So which amp would allow him to get that clean,clear, articulate neck/middle position tone better ??

IME Ive usually found a stock Lead spec Marshall to be king of guitar vol cleanup over another Lead spec Marshall that’s been modded for a lower cap value, or none at all.
I didn’t get to play my stock 70 Superbass I got in January much before I took it to a Tech for some TLC, and he’s still got it so I can’t experiment myself . All my previous bright cap v no bright cap experience was with 2203’s.

Ah, I see what you're saying...

My real answer would be TW Express or Fuzz Face

I think there are too many variables to say decisively whether a lead or bass circuit does the vol roll off thing better. For one thing, the extent to which the bright cap adds "sparkle" will depend on where the volume is set (if at 10, it's doing nothing). If you have a bright guitar (like a Strat, or Jimmy's LP), you'll lose a lot of body with smaller coupling caps as the gain drops, which is why some jump channels on the lead amps.

The wah on "No Quarter" is doing a lot of work in the sparkle department from what I can hear. There's also the Echoplex, which is probably more apparent when the amp is being driven less.

Sorry to hear about your SB I'm sure it will be worth it!

 

[janalex]

For me personally I have a 68 super bass and a super lead here and there is a significant difference at volume 1-5 on the guitar in how the amps respond and feel. I always felt that the super bass was 10% closer to the srts tone. Probably the last 5-10% is the amp putting out much more power into the speaker cabinets when running the kt88 tubes and the speaker distortion that generates when on full blast. Btw none of those mods you see on the back panel in the anthology book were there during 1973. You can confirm that during a shot from the back of the stage when the band is leaving after the encore.

 

[AlfaQV]

Got your hands on it yet @AlfaQV ? Looking forward to hearing how it sounds!

I have and unfortunately something was probably shaken loose in transit. Plugged it in and started playing a little bit, progressively bringing the volume up without issue. When I finally cranked it the indicator light flickered and I lost power. Sent it to my amp tech to see what's the matter.

Wish I had better news. Hoping he can get to the bottom of it and get it running like a champ!

 

[Quinny]

Ah bugger, sorry to hear that. Did you lose power altogether, or just sound with the amp staying powered up? I'd a similar sounding situation with my '73 - low volume all was well but, consistently, soon as you got to around 5-6 on the volume the power light flickered and all went quiet (but amp stayed powered up). It was the HT fuse going, which itself was just a symptom of the actual problem elsewhere in the circuit.

 

[playloud]

I have and unfortunately something was probably shaken loose in transit. Plugged it in and started playing a little bit, progressively bringing the volume up without issue. When I finally cranked it the indicator light flickered and I lost power. Sent it to my amp tech to see what's the matter.

Wish I had better news. Hoping he can get to the bottom of it and get it running like a champ!

Just checking, did you end up using the step up transformer or switching the primary tap on the PT?

If the latter, did you increase the mains fuse value to 3/4A? I would have expected a blown mains fuse if you used the UK value (2A) with US wall voltage.

 

[AlfaQV]

Just checking, did you end up using the step up transformer or switching the primary tap on the PT?

If the latter, did you increase the mains fuse value to 3/4A? I would have expected a blown mains fuse if you used the UK value (2A) with US wall voltage.

Good observation. I switched the primary tap but did not change the fuse, so that could very well be the issue. Lost power altogether @Quinny, so this may be the reason for that. Hoping it's something that minor and easy to fix

 

[playloud]

Good observation. I switched the primary tap but did not change the fuse, so that could very well be the issue. Lost power altogether @Quinny, so this may be the reason for that. Hoping it's something that minor and easy to fix

Oh that probably is the issue then! Blowing the 2A fuse once playing at US mains voltage is totally normal/expected behavior. Don't want to jinx it, but suspect your amp is absolutely fine.