So What Is The Dang Difference Really?

[Frodebro]

If you think a Les Paul is worth $3299, you will go out & buy one. If you don't think it's worth it, you will not be buying one off the shelf, anytime soon. If you buy an Epiphone, or some other knockoff for far less & are happy w/ it - it's a better deal (to you).

Exactly. The freak show starts when people who cannot justify the cost of nicer instruments start critiquing the choices of those who do prefer the more expensive offerings.

 

[MexicanMike]

There came a point in my musicianship, where, I wanted an upgrade, but none of the local stores had an upgrade. When I asked the salesman why, he told me the truth. The most sold guitars are beginner models. Generally, junior drags his mom into the store & begs her to buy him a guitar. How much is mommy willing to throw away on junior. Junior is 12 years old & chances are this is a passing fad & the guitar will be plucked on a dozen x's, until junior gets bored & figures out that he will have to practice discipline to do anything worthwhile w/ it...

So, they stock up on the beginner kits for $200 +/- (they've kept pretty stable over the last 20 years). If they stocked up on a $3200 guitar back then, that guitar would sit on the rack for years. Meanwhile, they go through 500 $200 beginner kits. There's no money, if you can't sell it. Plus, the store had to put the money out on that guitar that has been hanging on the rack, getting pawed about by every Clapton wannabee for the next 16-24 months until if finally sells - if it does sell...

Isn't that the truth. The local music store here doesn't carry Gibsons anymore, they used to, but because of that price tag, nobody would buy them. I have to drive 2 hours to either Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse or Binghamton to test out a Gibson or PRS. That's a hell of a trip. 4 hours total.

 

[Frodebro]

I used to manage a music store that was a Gibson dealer. I'd move ten to fifteen Epiphones for every Gibson sold. The Gibsons did help sales though, because they drew people in.

 

[Gunner64]

This one is in really great original condition.. Good frets,Three bolt neck. Ohsc No rust or gunk however..

 

[MexicanMike]

This one is in really great original condition.. Good frets,Three bolt neck. Ohsc No rust or gunk however..

Hopefully there's a few chips in the paint at least, it adds to the sound.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

Exactly. The freak show starts when people who cannot justify the cost of nicer instruments start critiquing the choices of those who do prefer the more expensive offerings.

Well, I've never owned a Gibson Les Paul. I've never found one that I've thought was worth the price. I do have some nice guitars & IMO, I've had 2 LP style guitars that have been better than most of the hundreds of LP's I've played over the years. 1, was my old Ibanez Artist (that I wish I still had) & the other is my Hamer USA. 2 exceptional guitars & it's been hard pressed to find a LP that makes my want it. I paid $600 for the Hamer pre-2000 (it's a '93). I paid $200 for the Ibanez. I've played a few LP's that were on par, but TBH, I've played only a couple dozen PRS guitars & thought they were better & not as high priced (back then - of course their price has risen lately).

Off the rack though, almost every Epiphone, I put right back on the rack. Same w/ the Schectors, etc. Some of them look cool & pretty, but playing them & the quality coming through the amp is another thing...

 

[Frodebro]

Well, I've never owned a Gibson Les Paul. I've never found one that I've thought was worth the price. I do have some nice guitars & IMO, I've had 2 LP style guitars that have been better than most of the hundreds of LP's I've played over the years. 1, was my old Ibanez Artist (that I wish I still had) & the other is my Hamer USA. 2 exceptional guitars & it's been hard pressed to find a LP that makes my want it. I paid $600 for the Hamer pre-2000 (it's a '93). I paid $200 for the Ibanez. I've played a few LP's that were on par, but TBH, I've played only a couple dozen PRS guitars & thought they were better & not as high priced (back then - of course their price has risen lately).

Off the rack though, almost every Epiphone, I put right back on the rack. Same w/ the Schectors, etc. Some of them look cool & pretty, but playing them & the quality coming through the amp is another thing...

Here's irony for you: I used to be a moderator on the Les Paul Forum-and I didn't own one. I was a dyed-in-the-wool PRS guy at the time, and I received a lot of ribbing for that. I currently own exactly one-a 2014 Studio with a gorgeous flamed top. It took me a LOT of digging to find that one.

 

[ricksconnected]

That is ultimately left to the discretion of the individual consumer.

yes you are right frodebro. but this post is education the consumers as it goes. (I hope)

 

[ricksconnected]

Well, I've never owned a Gibson Les Paul. I've never found one that I've thought was worth the price. I do have some nice guitars & IMO, I've had 2 LP style guitars that have been better than most of the hundreds of LP's I've played over the years. 1, was my old Ibanez Artist (that I wish I still had) & the other is my Hamer USA. 2 exceptional guitars & it's been hard pressed to find a LP that makes my want it. I paid $600 for the Hamer pre-2000 (it's a '93). I paid $200 for the Ibanez. I've played a few LP's that were on par, but TBH, I've played only a couple dozen PRS guitars & thought they were better & not as high priced (back then - of course their price has risen lately).

Off the rack though, almost every Epiphone, I put right back on the rack. Same w/ the Schectors, etc. Some of them look cool & pretty, but playing them & the quality coming through the amp is another thing...

nothing beats the pic you posted the other day of that prototype I think it was. splendidly beautiful.

 

[Frodebro]

yes you are right frodebro. but this post is education the consumers as it goes. (I hope)

If you want a solid answer to the discussion, the biggest difference between a Gibson and an Epiphone is the materials used and the cost of the labor involved in building them. Gibsons require much more labor than Fenders (and most bolt-neck guitars), which adds even more to the cost.

 

[ricksconnected]

yes but we are learning that some of the parts on these gibsons as well as others, aren't always "made in America" as advertised.
they are more like Assembled in America, and the buyer is NOT charged accordingly. a lot of these high end production guitars
are not exactly as advertised. funny thing is you can buy the same model guitar of the same yr, and the parts have come from different manufacture
than the others did.

 

[ricksconnected]

If you want a solid answer to the discussion, the biggest difference between a Gibson and an Epiphone is the materials used and the cost of the labor involved in building them. Gibsons require much more labor than Fenders (and most bolt-neck guitars), which adds even more to the cost.

not a big difference in building labor when it comes to bolt ons and set necks.
CNC machines are doing all the work for fit. the drying time of the gluing holds
back production times a slight bit but that's really the only difference. heck even
the molding is being done by pouring rather than the old cut and glue.
its faster and saves them $$ doing it this way.

 

[Dogs of Doom]

Bolt-on necks are easier to resolve any setup issues. If the neck is at the wrong pitch, they can simply shim the neck. On a set neck, they must heat the guitar up, remove the neck, & change the angle. Then reglue it. paint it over & then try the setup. neck through? forget it... ...

 

[Frodebro]

It will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next couple of years or so.

 

[ricksconnected]

Bolt-on necks are easier to resolve any setup issues. If the neck is at the wrong pitch, they can simply shim the neck. On a set neck, they must heat the guitar up, remove the neck, & change the angle. Then reglue it. paint it over & then try the setup. neck through? forget it... ...

yep that part sucks. that's why a lot of guys just like the bolt-on of fender design.
its more builder/repair/owner friendly in that way.
this explains why those sweet Jackson neck-thru guitars are/were so damn expensive.

 

[ricksconnected]

It will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next couple of years or so.

I think we are gonna see some serious changes Frodebro.
either prices on some gotta come down due to consumer's being more educated, or they are gonna have to
start getting more uniform in their building and suppliers. either way transparency is gonna cost them, or lack
of transparency that is. the consumer is getting more educated and are close to finding the man behind the curtain.

 

[Frodebro]

I think we are gonna see some serious changes Frodebro.
either prices on some gotta come down due to consumer's being more educated, or they are gonna have to
start getting more uniform in their building and suppliers. either way transparency is gonna cost them, or lack
of transparency that is. the consumer is getting more educated and are close to finding the man behind the curtain.

What I meant was America's competitiveness in the global market in the years to come. We may see import prices going up while domestic prices come down. We obviously can't talk about the politics, but things might happen that shift things around in a major way.

 

[Hogie34]

Well, I've never owned a Gibson Les Paul. I've never found one that I've thought was worth the price... .

see, that's why you just do what I've been doing. Buy up all the Studios, tributes and faded "burst" studios you can find. Sure, I'd like another standard or classic but I've bought 5 guitars in two months and still haven't hit the cost of a faded standard!

 

[ricksconnected]

agreed. I think I might have mentioned that somewhere above. (prices and quality of the over seas stuff going up as MIA coming down)
It will be interesting to say the least. there is so much completion out there now for almost everything else. when the Asian market gets the craft
down a little better and start having to repair their own stuff they will see that the quality of the parts means as much as the craftsmanship.
let the price wars begin!

 

[MexicanMike]

What I meant was America's competitiveness in the global market in the years to come. We may see import prices going up while domestic prices come down. We obviously can't talk about the politics, but things might happen that shift things around in a major way.

Domestically, there will be more jobs & money invested internally.